Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Calling all Win 70 CRF gurus - extractor issue

If you'll measure your brass from the case head to the forward edge of the extractor groove (where it meets the case body), I'll compare it to several different brands of 300WSM brass here. -Al

Thanks again for all the replies.

Just spent some time with it again and made some progress. I remembered I have a box of 300wm (no gun to match atm) and slipped that into the bolt face and it was way worse didn’t grab at all. Thought maybe the belt would make a difference. But did match the magnum bolt face as far as size goes.

I then added some tension to the tail end of the original extractor and tried to add some inward tension between the collar and claw. This gave a much better grab on the case placing it in and out manually w bolt removed from the gun. I also tried the problematic ammo and it was somewhat better but definitely took less pressure to snap it out of the claw. Which makes sense as it’s rim thickness was on the skinny side.

Next into the gun. With both ammo it seems to grab it better out of the mag (only tried a couple rounds of each). It does give a little resistance at the end of the feed. Just the forward motion, not closing the bolt. Just a little bump as it seats into the chamber. Is this normal? Before it eerily needed no force at all just slid in and out.

I watched when it pops up out of the mag and it’s just before halfway, say 40-45%. The extractor seems to grab the case better with less slop. It pops up about 75% into the bolt face and then 100% as it begins to enter the chamber.

I then pulled a couple commercial mausers out. While they do grab more firmly I was surprised to see that the casing doesn’t pop up 75% onto the bolt face until probably 3/4 of the way on closing the bolt. So in that regard this M70 has about 1/3 more CRF on feeding.

Overall I’m more hopeful at this point. I need to get to the range and put it through its paces. If it will CRF load, extract, and eject well putting some rounds though it this way I’d be happy I think and might save a trip to Winchester. I’m still curious to see if the other bolt sleeve and combo of extractors might have tighter tolerances w eachother.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Will post an update whenever I get to the range

Al, when I compare the 2 brands of ammo. The extractor groove seems to have a steeper angle and a thinner rim on the looser one.

If shooting factory ammo only, you're at the mercy of whatever those cases have for dimensions in this area. Handloads present more options for case selection, of course.

Have you checked the bolt nose to barrel clearance?

The .300WM has a .532 case head.. WSMs, (IIRC) are .534.. Don't be afraid to add even a bit more tension to that extractor tail and try again..

Glad to read that there's progress at least.. Best wishes.

The new bolt body, extractor, extractor ring and, gas cover came today. All the parts are exactly the same. I now have 3 extractors for comparison and they are all 3 identical. I swapped parts between the two bolt bodies mix and match and the results were the same. The only difference is that the original extractor that I adjusted holds the shells the best regardless of what bolt body it was on.

So what I think this tells me is that this is just the way it is in terms of parts and fitment, and that the extractor adjustments make the difference. Maybe the WSM extractors have extra clearance for some reason idk.

I’m having a bit of a hard time swallowing this as my first M70, but maybe I was over-expecting???

Those ordered parts will get returned at least. And like I said earlier I need to get to the range and put it through some paces now. Might pick up a box or two of different ammo to try. The Q will be how much confidence I have in it after it’s all said and done.

Might start that build anyways although I’m on a bit of a timeline now.

Thanks again for all the replies and help. Much appreciated.

I’m in the process of checking the bolt nose clearance. Had to look that one up.

Marks

Thanks for keeping the information flowing. Where did you order you New bolt and parts from?

It saves me from ordering parts to compare with my original bolt.

I have to fix several things on that bolt.

Hal

Then just work with that one.. You'll get it..

M70s "can" be a bit touchy to work with to get right.. The usual issue I used to run into was magazine/feeding issues.. One thing to keep in mind - the CRF style works best when the bolt is moved with alacrity.. Go slow and ejection can, at times, give the operator grief..

FWIW

Hal, I ordered everything from Numrich. Lowest prices I came across, quick shipping, and they were all new as far as I can tell even though they weren’t necessarily listed as such.

I called BACO about this issue (mislocated extractor groove) at least eight years ago. They denied that any such problem existed. It is a classic example of the "head in the sand" approach to customer service. They mass produced a whole bunch of faulty bolts. Not only that, by refusing to acknowledge the problem, they will continue to make them the same way. The chief engineer, the shop foreman, the machinist, and the QC supervisor should all be fired. Then, they can get the janitor to correct the fixture they use during set up. Failing that, they could manufacture some extractors which accommodate the incredibly stupid machining error on the bolt. Everyone involved in this is a complete idiot. It is plain they cannot even read an electronic caliper. Every other Model 70 made before these pea-brained clowns took over the brand, had the extractor groove cut a certain distance from the bolt face. They worked. Then Mr. dumbass engineer and his retarded minions chose to screw it up. Maybe someday, one of them will accidentally fix it. It's highly unlikely any have the brains to fix it on purpose.
Now, it is entirely possible that this accident has taken place and they problem is fixed, but I wouldn't bet the farm. It should have been addressed five minutes after my phone call, but I didn't get the impression that it was any sort of priority. GD

I remember you talking about this. It appears that may be the issue with this one. Something for damn sure does not look right. If you look at pre 64's and the Classics, you will see where the extractor actually rides on the bolt face too. There is no huge spacing there, like the OP is showing with his Browning.

Still haven't checked bolt nose clearance?????

I could exchange the extractors between my Model 54 and any of the pre-BACO model 70's and both would work fine. If I put a brand new BACO extractor on the Model 54, it will work fine. No extractor will make the BACO bolt work fine, because it's effed up! Apparently, they saw how successful Remington had been at eliminating any primary extraction and decided to show they could do it as well by screwing up extractor location while Remington did it by screwing up the handle location. WH

Interesting and good to know grey. Were any of yours WSM’s?

Al, I’m getting 0.011. I think that is okay for cone nose?

I pulled saami cartridge diagrams for 300 wsm and 30-06. There is a lot more distance between the rim and top of the extactor groove on the WSM and the angle is steeper. I’m wondering if this is what contributes to the added space. They only make one magnum extractor so they would have to control the point of engagement by machining the bolt differently for different cartridges and idk if that’s what they do. I need another wsm crf M70 for comparison.

Weather is going to be prohibitive the next coupke days but maybe over the weekend I can get a short range session in. I want to do that once more before potentially sending it in for evaluation.

WSM, belted mag, 30/06, it didn't matter. They were all messed up. On the one I called about (a 7mm Mag) I ended up having the extractor claw tig welded, then re-cut it to get it closer to the face. This worked well but should never have had to be done. There is no excuse for the error and no real explanation for it, apart from incompetence at all levels. What really strikes me is their stubborn refusal to admit the mistake has been made and their refusal to make a change. Incompetent and stubborn, not good traits in a firearm manufacturer. GD