Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Cast bullets per C. E. Harris

BY C.E. Harris

Cast bullet loads usually give a more useful zero at practical field ranges with military battle sights than do full power loads. Nothing is more frustrating than a military rifle that shoots a foot high at 100 yards with surplus ammo when the sight is as low as it will go! Do not use inert fillers (Dacron or kapok) to take up excess empty space in the case. This was once common practice, but it raises chamber pressure and under certain conditions contributes to chamber ringing. If a particular load will not work well without a filler, the powder is not suitable for those conditions of loading. Four load classifications from Mattern (1932) cover all uses for the cast bullet military rifle. I worked up equivalent charges to obtain the desired velocity ranges with modern powders, which provide a sound basis for loading cast bullets in any post-1898 military rifle from 7mm to 8mm:

1. 125 grain plain based "small game/gallery" 900-1000 f.p.s., 5 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

2. 150 grain plain based "100-yard target/small game", 1050-1250 f.p.s., 7 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

3. 170-180 grain gas checked "200 yard target", 1500-1600 f.p.s., 16 grains of Hercules #2400 or equivalent.

4. 180-200 grain gas-checked "deer/600 yard target", 1750-1850 f.p.s., 26 grains of RL-7 or equivalent.

None of these loads are maximum when used in full-sized rifle cases such as the 30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Jap, 7.62x54R Russian , or 30-06. They can be used as basic load data in most modern military rifles of 7mm or larger, with a standard weight cast bullet for the caliber, such as 140-170 grains in the 7x57, 150-180 grains in the .30 calibers, and 150-190 grains in the 8mm. For bores smaller than 7mm, consult published data.

The Small Game or Gallery" Load

The 110-115 grain bullets intended for the .30 carbine and .32-20 Winchester, such as the Lyman #3118, #311008, #311359, or #311316 are not as accurate as heavier ones like the #311291. There isn't a readily available .30 caliber cast small game bullet of the proper 125-130 grain weight. LBT makes a 130 grain flat-nosed gas-check bullet for the .32 H&R Magnum which is ideal for this purpose. I recommend it highly, particularly if you own a .32 revolver.

The "100 Yard Target and Small Game" Load

I use Mattern's plain-based "100 yard target load" to use up my minor visual defect culls for offhand and rapid-fire 100 yard practice. I substitute my usual gas-checked bullets, but without the gas-check. I started doing this in 1963 with the Lyman #311291. Today I use the Lee .312-155-2R, or the similar tumble-lubed design TL.312-160-2R. Most of my rifle shooting is done with these two basic designs.

Bullets I intend for plain based loads are blunted using a flat-nosed top punch in my lubricator, providing a 1/8" flat which makes them more effective on small game and clearly distinguishes them from my heavier gas-checked loads. This makes more sense to me than casting different bullets.

Bullet preparation is easy. I visually inspect each run of bullets and throw those with gross defects into the scrap box for remelting. Bullets with minor visual defects are tumble-lubed in Lee Liquid Alox without sizing, and are used for plain base plinkers. Bullets which are visually perfect are weighed and sorted into groups of +/- 0.5 grain for use in 200 yard matches. Gas checks are pressed onto bullet bases by hand prior to running into the lubricator-sizer. For gas-check bullets loaded without the gas- checks, for cases like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and 30-06, I use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning powder. These include, but are not limited to Bullseye, WW231, SR-7625, Green Dot, Red Dot or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9 grains of medium rate burning pistol or shotgun powders, such as Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British or larger.

In the 7.62x39 case, use no more than 4 grains of the fast burning powders mentioned or 5 grains of the shotgun powders. Theses make accurate 50 yard small game loads which let you operate the action manually and save your precious cases. These plinkers are more accurate than you can hold.

Repeated loading of rimless cases with very mild loads results in the primer blast shoving the shoulder back, unless flash holes are enlarged with a No. 39 drill bit to 0.099" diameter. Cases which are so modified must never be used with full powered loads! Always identify cases which are so modified by filing a deep groove across the rim and labeling them clearly to prevent their inadvertent use. For this reason on I prefer to do my plain based practice shooting in rimmed cases like the 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 British and 7.62x54R which maintain positive headspace on the rim and are not subject to this limitation.

The Harris "Subsonic Target" Compromise

Mattern liked a velocity of around 1250 f.p.s. for his 100 yard target load because this was common with the lead bullet .32-40 target rifles of his era. I have found grouping is best with non gas- checked bullets in military rifles at lower velocities approaching match grade .22 long rifle ammunition. I use my "Subsonic Target" load at around 1050-1100 f.p.s. to replace both Mattern's "small game" and "100 yard target" loads, though I have lumped it with the latter since it really serves the same purpose. It's report is only a modest "pop" rather than a "crack".

If elongated bullet holes and enlarged groups indicate marginal bullet stability, increase the charge no more than a full grain from the minimum recommended, if needed to get consistent accuracy. If this doesn't work, try a bullet which is more blunt and short for its weight because it will be more easily stabilized. If this doesn't do the trick, you must change to a gas-checked bullet and a heavier load.


The Workhorse Load - Mattern's "200 yard Target"

My favorite load is the most accurate. Mattern's so-called "200 yard target load." I expect 10 shot groups at 200 yards, firing prone rapid with sling to average 4-5". I shoot high Sharpshooter, low Expert scores across the course with an issue 03A3 or M1917, shooting in a cloth coat, using may cast bullet loads. The power of this load approximates the 32-40, inadequate for deer by today's standards. Mattern's "200 yard target load" is easy to assemble. Because it is a mild load, soft scrap alloys usually give better accuracy than harder ones, such as linotype. Local military collector-shooters have standardized on 16 grains of #2400 as the "universal" prescription. It gives around 1500 f.p.s. with a 150-180 grain cast bullet in almost any military caliber. We use 16 grains of #2400 as our reference standard, just as high power competitors use 168 Sierra Match Kings and 4895.

The only common military rifle cartridge in which 16 grains of #2400 provides a maximum load, and which must not be exceeded, is in the tiny 7.63x39mm case. Most SKS rifles will function reliably with charges of #2400 as light as 14 grains with the Lee 312-155-2R at around 1500 f.p.s. I designed this bullet especially for the 7.62x39, but it works very well as a light bullet in any .30 or .303 caliber rifle.

Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load

The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.

However, these other powders may give some vertical stringing in cases larger than the 7.62x39 unless the charge is positioned against the primer by tipping the muzzle up before firing. Hercules #2400 does not require this precaution. Don't ask me why. Hercules #2400 usually gives tight clusters only within a narrow range of charge weights within a grain or so, and the "universal" 16 grain load is almost always the best. Believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to improve on this, and you can take our word for it.

The beauty of the "200 yard target load" at about 1500 f.p.s. is that it can be assembled from bullets cast from the cheapest, inexpensive scrap alloy, and fired all day without having to clean the bore. It always works. Leading is never a problem. Once a uniform bore condition is established, the rifle behaves like a .22 match rifle, perhaps needing a warming shot or two if it has cooled, but otherwise being remarkably consistent.

The only thing I do after a day's shooting with this load is to swab the bore with a couple of wet patches of GI bore cleaner or Hoppe's, and let it soak until the next match. I then follow with three dry patches prior to firing. It takes only about three foulers to get the 03A3 to settle into tight little clusters again.

"Deer and Long Range Target Load"

Mattern's "deer and 600 yard target load" can be assembled in cases of 30-40 Krag capacity or larger up to 30-06 using 18-21 grains of #2400 or 4227, 22-25 grains of 4198, 25-28 grains of RL-7 or 27-30 grains of 4895, which give from 1700-1800 f.p.s., depending on the case size. These charges must not be used in cases smaller than the 303 British without cross checking against published data! The minimum charge should always be used initially, and the charge adjusted within the specified range only as necessary to get best grouping.

Popular folklore suggests a barrel must be near perfect for good results with cast bullets, but this is mostly bunk, though you may have to be persistent.

I have a rusty-bored Finnish M28/30 which I have shot extensively, in making direct comparisons with the same batches of loads on the same day with a mint M28 and there was no difference. The secret in getting a worn bore to shoot acceptably is to remove all prior fouling and corrosion. Then you must continue to clean the bore "thoroughly and often" until it maintains a consistent bore condition over the long term. You must also keep cast bullet loads under 1800 f.p.s. for hunting and under 1600 f.p.s. for target work.

A cleaned and restored bore will usually give good accuracy with cast bullet loads if the bullet fits the chamber throat properly, is well lubricated and the velocities are kept below 1800 f.p.s.

The distinction between throat diameter and groove diameter in determining proper bullet size is important. If you are unable to determine throat diameter from a chamber cast, a rule of thumb is to size bullets .002" over groove diameter, such as .310" for a 30-06, .312" for a 7.63x54R and .314" for a .303 British.

"Oversized 30's", like the .303 British, 7.7 Jap, 7.65 Argentine, and 7.62x39 Russian frequently give poor accuracy with .30 caliber cast bullets designed for U.S. barrels having .300 bore and .308 groove dimensions. This is because the part of the bullet ahead of the driving bands receives no guidance from the lands in barrel s of larger bore diameter. The quick rule of thumb to checking proper fit of the forepart is to insert the bullet, nose first, into the muzzle. If it enters clear up to the front driving band without being noticeably engraved, accuracy will seldom be satisfactory.

The forepart is not too large if loaded rounds can be chambered with only slight resistance, the bullet does not telescope back into the case, or stick in the throat when extracted without firing. A properly fitting cast bullet should engrave the forepart positively with the lands, and be no more than .001" under chamber throat diameter on the driving bands. Cast bullets with a tapered forepart at least .002" over bore diameter give the best results.

Many pre-WWII Russian rifles of US make, and later Finnish reworks, particularly those with Swiss barrels by the firm SIG, have very snug chamber necks and cannot be used with bullets over .311" diameter unless case necks are reamed or outside turned to .011" wall thickness to provide safe clearance.

Bullets with a large forepart, like the Lee 312-155-2R or Lyman #314299 work best with the 7.62x54R because the forcing cones are large and gradual. Standard .30 caliber gas-checks are correct.

I use this load in my '06.

When Ed Harris talks, you listen.

That article tracks with how I load for my .30's. Right now I'm concocting a couple hundred '06 midrange loads for a couple Springfields to use in a military rifle sillhouette match in a couple weeks. 18.0gr. 4759 + NOE 309-169 Elco (GC'ed spitzer). Because it's a spitzer it needs to be hard in order to prevent nose slumping in the bore at launch, hence the alloy of 5 parts monotype + 4 parts pure lead, one of the few times I don't gravitate toward much softer alloys. Knocks the 1/2-scale rams over with alacrity at 200 yards on the reduced distance venue we're limited to. Proven sub-MOA accuracy in my National Match '03 and USMC 1903A1 sniper clone. Funny, you can see the bullets arc into the steel targets at 200 yards through a 60x spotting scope.

Reminds me Ed Harris and I are overdue for one of our sporadic lunch dates. Lunch: 3 or 4 hours of cast bullet palavering at a frenzied pace - it's hard to get a word in edgewise with the guy!!

gnoahhh, as I respect your opinion…..I’ve a question.

I load light load cast bullets for a couple of our large case capacity rifles, wife’s .338 WM and my .375 AI, I’ve always used a “filler”. Ed Harris is adverse to this. So, what is your take on the use of “filler” in large capacity rifle cases? memtb

Frankly, I've never ever messed with really large capacity bottle necked cases such as you listed. I did however ring a chamber once when using fillers. It was an 8mm Mauser, Lyman 323470 as I recall, light charge of 2400. I used kapok as a filler (salvaged from an old life preserver) and didn't adhere to the precept of having the filler fill the case from the top of the powder to the base of the bullet (no air gap whatsoever) - I had mashed it in to keep the small powder charge positioned in the bottom of the case, leaving a significant air gap under the bullet. After pounding a half dozen shots through it the cases got harder and harder to extract. I noticed a suspicious ring/bulge on case necks and when I got home and looked closely my thoughts were confirmed - I had ringed the chamber at a spot which coincided with where the base of the bullet lay in a cartridge.

The barrel came off and the gun became a 7x57 instead. The grocery bag full of kapok went in the garbage.

I've used polyester pillow fill the same way with nary a problem but honestly couldn't tell much difference in accuracy from loads with no filler, so figured "why risk it for such little gain?" My gut says that it doesn't matter how big the case is, what's important is denial of any air gaps inside it when using any kind of filler. What causes ringing is the filler, or wad, acting as a secondary projectile inside the case slamming against the immobile bullet. That tiny bit of time before the bullet starts moving is enough for pressure to spike right there for a fraction of a millisecond and something has to give.

My elderly shooting buddy conducted some fairly scientific tests along with Charlie Dell in purposely inducing ringed chambers. They found that rings could be induced on demand through faulty placement of over-powder wads. (The whole process is described in Charlie's book on shooting single shot Schuetzen rifles, an out of print and now stupidly expensive book that should be of prime interest for anybody serious about shooting cast bullets.) My buddy, Chris Christensen, stepped away from wads/fillers at the conclusion of the trials. One day as we were talking about it I related my tale of wrecking a nice 8mm Mauser barrel, and he just grinned knowingly as I described it.

I won't say "never ever use fillers", but I will say proceed with great caution.

Thank You for you4 detailed response! I think that I’ll quit using fillers, and hope that the loads are not excessively “position sensitive”.

I’ve always used Unique with the filler. With my large case capacity, and only wanting 1500 fps or so mv…..what powders would you suggest to try?

Thanks in advance! memtb

I've been using Dacron filler for years; the rule is simple. Fill the space, compress. Treat the filler as part of the bullet, or another way to look at it, treat it like a shotshell (which often have wads and multiple pieces, but all sealed and compressed into a single hull). Done incorrectly, you can ring a shotgun or worse. Done correctly, no issues.

Anything else can be or is a secondary projectile if you make it one.

I've never used fillers with large rifle cases and pistol powders, but I don't use pistol powders in large rifle cases. I stick to Blue Dot and Unique in the Hornet.

My reasons for using fillers are they move obturation (friction) from the bullet base and they keep the bore condition consistent, much like gas checks do.
My compadre has been using my cast soft nose for deer (both 250gr. flat nose and now spitzers) in his Whelen with 53grs. R15, 1-2 grs compressed Dacron (the amount to fill) for the requisite 2,550 fps.

We've probably fired 300 or so of these rounds over the years and around a dozen deer.

Very interesting. Somehow I came up with 53.0grs of IMR-4320 pushing my gas checked #352 35 cal Saecos to 2480fps with excellent accuracy. I was shooting 3/4" 3 shot groups at 100 yds from a 700 classic Whelen. This bullet weighs 245grs all lubed and checked. I then tested these in wet/dry wet stacked box of news print and computer paper and my bullets had shattered after about 10" of penetration. My alloy does contain some antimony, but not alot. Probably 3% or less. I've heard antimony is great for hardening bullets up, but can contribute to brittleness. Does your alloy contain antimony?

My bullets are two part:

The nose down to the first groove is pure lead or 1/20 tin lead. Ductile metal.

The base and shank are wheelweight metal with some tin. It contains antimony.
The works is water dropped from the mold. The shank heat treats while the nose does not.
The front portion of ductile metal goes splat easy for quick expansion an folds back or blows off and the hard base carries through. Never recovered one in a hog or deer whether 44 Mag carbine, 45/70 or the 35 Whelens. The spitzer 35 does most of it inside the animal. The flat noses are literally expanding when the first hair is hit out to 250 yards.

Are your bullets truly shattering or are they "powdering" down? Is there any shank retention? How far away?

Really high antimonial alloys like linotype will literally break in large pieces and shatter as high impact speeds, flat noses and large calibers come in play.

My 46 gr Hornet load at 2,900 fps. with lino acts like a V-Max at 100 yards. With heat treated wheelweight its un-spectacular.

Ross Seyfried has recommended 40-46% the std.charge of black powder using 4198......then filling the rest of the powder to bullet with Dacron.

A recent resurrection of a friends flat side 1895 in 38-72 had us with 45% of 72 grains for 32.5/33 grs. IMR 4198, 8-9 grs Dacron and I have a four cavity LBT 270 LFN GC mold for the 375s. Ironically close to the 38-72's factory bullet weight.

Someone had put a low colored bead in the gun (his Dad) and shot jacketed (yuk) old 235gr Barnes out of it. This would not do.

The bore is a bit rotted towards the throat, more than likely from early primers eating it, but it shot respectable at 100 yards, high of course.

Thanks HawkI I have a pile of 4198…..that may be a powder to strongly consider. I’m only looking for a pretty accurate “plinker” load….1500 to 1600 mv would be fine. Using that formula, do ya have any idea approximately what the mv may be? memtb

Just looking on its face, the 338 and 375 will be in the 76-80gr range of black, if they were loaded with it.

45% will be 34-34.5 grs. using the 76 grs. baseline as a start.
The Dacron will be in the 7-9gr area.

These formulas are going to be for black powder velocities, which will be lower than your target area. 1,400 will be tops.
You will have to add 4198 to get what you want. Work up a grain at a time and be safe!

Uncertain powder supply being what they are nowadays, if the wonderful 4198 is not available...always consider RL-7, darn near grain for grain in big roomy cases. Just half baked theory on my part, but often RL7 will give a little better accuracy with cast...my theory being the pressure curve is a little steeper at the beginning of the burn, bumping the bullet into the throat. ???
RL7 also benefits from a.dacron tuft of powder positioner for low ES's.

Anecdotally, the Lyman cast bullet manual shows a 220gr. bullet in .338WM propelled by 26gr. 4198 for 1700fps, 36gr. max for2100fps, 20,600ft.lbs. and 30,500ft.lbs. pressure respectively. For .375H&H, 249gr. bullet, 24.5 4198 for 1440fps, 35gr. max for 1900fps, no pressures listed.

I gotta agree with flintlocke re: powder availability versus what works. Unfortunately the best dammed cast bullet ever, IMO, 4759 is totally unavailable being discontinued 8-10 years ago now if memory serves. Currently RL-7 may as well have been discontinued as there hasn't been any in a coon's age. (I'll brag a bit and divulge that I have around 20 pounds of 4759 left, and maybe 5 pounds of RL-7, so I'm hoping to squeeze by for a while, maybe to the end.) Frankly I was never a fanboy of 4198, but only because it wasn't the very best for what I've been doing rifle-wise not because it isn't a good powder. 5744 is another one that fits in the slot but I never had great luck with that one either - good luck, sure, but not great luck.

I participate in schuetzen matches where the .32-40 predominates, along with .38-55's to a lesser extent along with a few 8.15x46R's. Most popular powder in my circle is 4227, with 5744 and 300-MP right behind (mainly because 4759 bit the dust) - and nobody I know of uses a filler, and you should see some of the astonishing targets that are turned in. I personally swear by 4227 in my .32-40 bench guns (my 4759 is earmarked for my Springfields and Krags although I do use a bit in .32-40's when I'm out for blood), and accuracy is fine even with the poorly positioned powder charge - a mere 14gr. only fills a .32-40 case a third of the way up, give or take. Forty five minute relays don't leave much time for added steps like fillers when you're shooting 10-shot strings and working with one cartridge case by re-charging it at the scene for each shot and breech seating bullets separately - lucky to get two good strings done in that time period. (I typically use one fresh case for a long weekend's match worth of shooting, a couple hundred shots, and then relegate it to the "I know I should throw it away but I can't bring myself to do it" drawer.) I do poke a 1/8" thick industrial felt wad flush into the case mouth but that's mainly to keep the powder from spilling into the action when inserting the case into the chamber (our target butts are slightly downhill from our benches, and it's worse when shooting offhand). But, I figure the poor powder positioning is offset by the fact that it's consistently poorly positioned......

OK guys, I’ve another question ……way off topic! The only thing common to my previous question is the two rifles involved!


In wanting to start shooting our (wife’s 338 WM & my AI) rifles more, and wish to use the components we have on hand.

Many years ago, when fire forming cases for my AI, I used 50 BMG powder (fine grain ball powder) of which I only have 90+ pounds. I was using a full case, to the top of the shoulder on the H&H case, then seating a 270 grain jacketed bullet.

These loads were running around 1800 mv, giving outstanding 100 yard groups…..a large ragged hole in the target!

But…….and there’s always the “but”! There was quite a bit of unburned powder in the barrel. I haven’t fire-formed in a while, and the unburned powder …..pretty much scared me away from using it again.

My bullets will be powder coated, gas checked, and weighing around 280 grains. My wife’s be powder coated, gas checked, and weighing around 220 grains. I’m assuming that her rifle will have unburned powder as well!


So my question……will/can I do damage to my barrel shooting rounds through a barrel with unburned powder kernels? Should I pass a patch through the barrel after short shot strings…..let’s say, every 10 shots. This would be a “pia” if out in the field plinking or shooting varmints.

I’d love to put this BMG powder to a good use before it goes bad, but don’t want to risk my barrel to do it! memtb

It won't hurt a thing.

Back when the world was right, IMR's rifle powder guide would have data with every rifle powder they sold for each rifle cartridge listed in the manual (pretty much).

This included data for Imr4350 and 4831 in the 22 Hornet....but it did need the full load of both to be compressed to prevent hangfires.

I used 4831 in one of my 222's. No issues other than a lot of unburnt kernels.

Thank You HawkI, that greatly eases my mind. 👍

If that BMG powder shoots my cast bullets anywhere near as good as it did with the jacketed bullets…..I’ll be a “Happy Camper”! Smiling already! 🙂 memtb

Yessiree - that dirt gets blown right out the barrel by the subsequent shot. What you see is one shot's worth. Save the cleaning for when you're done shooting.

Slow powder ain't bad. Case in point: 4350 and 4831 make good .30-30 cast bullet loads. I knew an old guy who haunted the Blue Ridge, Frank Marshall, who used a Savage 340 .30-30, 200 grain bullets and a case full of either powder and killed a metric sh*t-ton of deer and a few bears with it. He also did embarrassingly well in CBA matches with that rig too.

Thank You too gnoahhh……I knew that you guys would come to my rescue!

It may be a while before I try it……but, I’ll report the results when it happens! memtb

Frank and Ed....

I have a bunch of Fouling Shots with those two all over them. Mustafa Curtiss was another inveterate experimenter.

There wasn't too many guns those guys haven't put a greased slug down!