|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,904 Likes: 224
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,904 Likes: 224 |
Frank was a most knowledgeable curmudgeon. Intuition and common sense was his forte, and you could bet he had already been there and done it by the time we cast shooters started re-inventing wheels 40-50 years ago.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
1 member likes this:
memtb |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 58,441 Likes: 365
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 58,441 Likes: 365 |
Yessiree - that dirt gets blown right out the barrel by the subsequent shot. What you see is one shot's worth. Save the cleaning for when you're done shooting.
Slow powder ain't bad. Case in point: 4350 and 4831 make good .30-30 cast bullet loads. I knew an old guy who haunted the Blue Ridge, Frank Marshall, who used a Savage 340 .30-30, 200 grain bullets and a case full of either powder and killed a metric sh*t-ton of deer and a few bears with it. He also did embarrassingly well in CBA matches with that rig too. What charges for the .30-30 loads?
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,904 Likes: 224
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,904 Likes: 224 |
Literally a case full of 4831 (presumably the old Surplus 4831) - the premise being you couldn't get enough of the stuff in a case to cause pressure issues (heck we used to do that with .30-06's by scraping off the excess with a butter knife and then crunching a 150gr. bullet in on top of it) . I don't remember the amount of 4350, but out of curiosity I'm now looking in the Lyman manual and I see 4350 listed for 170gr. jacketed loads: maximum of 34.5grains(compressed) yielding 2100fps @ 38,000CUP pressure. I'll not advocate it, but I'd bet that cutting the charge by a grain or two and stuffing a 190gr. cast bullet on top of it wouldn't get a fella in hot water. (My go-to .30-30 load is a 190 & 28gr. 3031 that yields 2030fps out of my 24" Winchester M54 barrel.)
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
2 members like this:
Creeker, memtb |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32 |
My bullets are two part:
The nose down to the first groove is pure lead or 1/20 tin lead. Ductile metal.
The base and shank are wheelweight metal with some tin. It contains antimony.
The works is water dropped from the mold. The shank heat treats while the nose does not.
The front portion of ductile metal goes splat easy for quick expansion an folds back or blows off and the hard base carries through. Never recovered one in a hog or deer whether 44 Mag carbine, 45/70 or the 35 Whelens. The spitzer 35 does most of it inside the animal. The flat noses are literally expanding when the first hair is hit out to 250 yards.
Are your bullets truly shattering or are they "powdering" down? Is there any shank retention? How far away?
Really high antimonial alloys like linotype will literally break in large pieces and shatter as high impact speeds, flat noses and large calibers come in play.
My 46 gr Hornet load at 2,900 fps. with lino acts like a V-Max at 100 yards. With heat treated wheelweight its un-spectacular. Not sure I'm familiar with "powdering down". But I noticed I have a box of computer paper in my shed waiting for another round of bullet testing. I place the box 100 yds down range and shoot center mass. Perhaps this weekend I'll get to the range. It's difficult to post photos here, but it is possible. I'll try to share some results.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32 |
My bullets are two part:
The nose down to the first groove is pure lead or 1/20 tin lead. Ductile metal.
The base and shank are wheelweight metal with some tin. It contains antimony.
The works is water dropped from the mold. The shank heat treats while the nose does not.
The front portion of ductile metal goes splat easy for quick expansion an folds back or blows off and the hard base carries through. Never recovered one in a hog or deer whether 44 Mag carbine, 45/70 or the 35 Whelens. The spitzer 35 does most of it inside the animal. The flat noses are literally expanding when the first hair is hit out to 250 yards.
Are your bullets truly shattering or are they "powdering" down? Is there any shank retention? How far away?
Really high antimonial alloys like linotype will literally break in large pieces and shatter as high impact speeds, flat noses and large calibers come in play.
My 46 gr Hornet load at 2,900 fps. with lino acts like a V-Max at 100 yards. With heat treated wheelweight its un-spectacular. Not sure I'm familiar with "powdering down". But I noticed I have a box of computer paper in my shed waiting for another round of bullet testing. I place the box 100 yds down range and shoot center mass. Perhaps this weekend I'll get to the range. It's difficult to post photos here, but it is possible. I'll try to share some results.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32 |
Please excuse the double post. I received a fatal error message then tried posting again
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
No worries.
I'm sure the crowd would like to see what your messing with!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
No worries.
I'm sure the crowd would like to see what your messing with!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
No worries.
I'm sure the crowd would like to see what your messing with!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
No worries.
I'm sure the crowd would like to see what your messing with!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
No worries.
I'm sure the crowd would like to see what your messing with!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,241 Likes: 142 |
Sorry. Getting a "fatal error" and it looks like the posts finally went through.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32 |
Sorry. Getting a "fatal error" and it looks like the posts finally went through. Lol!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32 |
Today I'm going to pull a first. I have a brand new NOE 35 cal brass mold that drops a 313gr gas check casting. I've never used a brass mold before, and I've never tried a bullet this heavy in a 35 Whelen. The goal is 2100 fps, and I'll probably just fill a Whelen case full of IMR-4350 and see what happens. My 1:14 twist JES rebore 03A3 is the launching pad.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,601 Likes: 157
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,601 Likes: 157 |
Will that barrel have enough twist for that weight? Just asking. Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,394 Likes: 32 |
Will that barrel have enough twist for that weight? Just asking. Mb According to the stabilization equation I have on hand, yes. Down to about 1500fps, which puts it at almost 300 yds. I can report that the brass mold works fine, it initially required a shot of Ballistol that works as a release agent to allow the castings to freely drop. The castings weigh 318grs, and are 322grs with a gas check and lube. Bullet length is 1.233" which was used in the equation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,999 Likes: 45
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,999 Likes: 45 |
Straight from Col. Harris himself. In the 375 H&H with a “normal” weight bullet 13 grains of Red Dot works well. NO filler!
Rick
|
|
|
|
159 members (44automag, 264magnum, 345dl, 257_X_50, 300_savage, 338reddog, 30 invisible),
7,879
guests, and
186
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums82
Topics1,242,496
Posts19,520,164
Members75,367
| |
Most Online28,956
Jan 26th, 2025
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hg1i4US.jpg)