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Anything touched by the hands of man can have trouble. It's how those troubles are managed after the fact that shows the integrity of the business.

I don't look at a problem with anything now days as a sign that everything they make is bad, unless the response to the problem was unacceptable.

It's certainly heartbreaking for this to happen. It also seems the greater the investment, the more grief is felt.


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Will -- You ended up with the correct gear my friend, and I'll personally help you get into the game, and shorten that learning curve if you need. Just speak up if you need help getting started with anything.

That's too bad you had to make an extra trip though, but at least you got that extra sign to help you out laugh Two of my photographer friends bought the new Nikons the day they became available (one a D300, the other a FF D3) and they both did the same thing, except after a couple months of use. Just totally dead. And that's where the [bleep] part about Nikon comes in... both SLR's are still at Nikon and no word when they will be returning. This has caused one of them to buy a Canon 1DmkIII like mine and he's thrilled, the other is just too stubborn to accept change laugh and is using his old D2x until he happens to see his gear come back.

I've owned 7 Canon dSLR's and have had to send in only 1 for a repair. I called them, they emailed me a prepaid UPS Overnight shipping label, fixed the camera in 3 days and overnighted it back to me. I was out for 5 days including shipping... that's one reason people like Canon. Nikon makes a good product occasionally, but you're "going it alone", better hope nothing goes wrong frown

Feel free to PM me or post here and we'll get that gear up and running in no time laugh Congrats on buying a very nice piece of kit.

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Sorry to hear about your bad luck Will. Just one reason many of us have learned to kick back for a while after a new release.
In the end I think you made a very wise choice. I'll second what VTi said although I honestly believe that you cut your learning curve significantly by buying the right gear. smile
Luckilly in your case you chose to deal with a local shop so you were at least able to get things back on track ASAP.
Look forward to seeing some photos!

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Will,

Bummer on the D300, but glad the retailer treated you right! I would have been PO'd after back to back drives to town as well. Hope the Cannon works out for you; I'm betting you'll wind up loving the digital format! The only film body I really miss, is my FM-2. That was the most bulletproof camera, I have ever owned. Should have kept it, just because.

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Originally Posted by JJHACK
Anything touched by the hands of man can have trouble. It's how those troubles are managed after the fact that shows the integrity of the business.


That is so true, that one broke one doesn't mean Nikon is bad...their service would dictate to me what they are like. That's why Kimber in is at the bottom for rifle manufactures...one I would like to see go out of business because their service is an embarrasment.


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This has caused one of them to buy a Canon 1DmkIII like mine and he's thrilled,
For eight grand, he better be thrilled...

That's a heckuva camera, no doubt..

Re: the Nikon, I'm fairly certain if I have any issues Doug will take care of me.. He has too good a rep on this board not to..

If it takes a dump, I'll be the very first to say I was wrong and I'll make the switch..

After 7 (WOW) Canons, they BETTER send you an overnite ship label.. If I sold a customer 7 rifles, I'd be doing the same thing. You can bet your sweet bippy on that!..


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Canon does take good care of me.

The "fan boy" thing gets me a bit irritated as well. Honestly, I'm as least loyal of a consumer as can possibly be. I'm all about top performance, even obsessed to a certain extent. Just as an example, my previous 3 pickups were Dodge, then Ford, now a GMC. I shoot both Hoyt and Mathews bows, use Kifaru and Eberlestock packs, Dozier, Ingram and Scott Cook hunting knives. My tactical optics are US Optics, Schmidt & Bender. Remington and Win rifles etc, etc, etc.... Nobody out there is less of a "fanboy" than I.

I can say this, if Nikon (or anyone) produced a product line even literally a *shread* better than Canon, I'd be all over it. I'd sell my $28,000 Canon kit today and put together a Nikon kit tomorrow, seriously. That's just me, no compromises. And for a total beginner, it should've be a no brainer. Experience will teach you.

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Originally Posted by Redneck
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This has caused one of them to buy a Canon 1DmkIII like mine and he's thrilled,
For eight grand, he better be thrilled...
After 7 (WOW) Canons, they BETTER send you an overnite ship label.. If I sold a customer 7 rifles, I'd be doing the same thing. You can bet your sweet bippy on that!..



At this juncture don't you think you could tone down your fan boyism just a bit and at least make some minimal effort to post accuratly? A 1DmkIII is a hair over 4k not 8. Your so busy knocking Canon and accusing others of being fan boys it's comical. You don't even have a grip on FF Vs crop let alone RAW conversion, pixel density or Dynamic range. Dare I even mention........Noise and AF speed?
Honestly I've never known any one who has bought an $1800+ P&S before. It's been entertaining.
Congrats! laugh


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Slow down, Dave... slow down... It's possible I looked at the wrong body, but I'm pretty sure it was the one you mentioned.. I was on the Canon website and they show the price of that body at $7,999.00...

I've never knocked Canon as you state. I've tried to be honest in my appraisal as to what I'm looking for and what's out there.. I know Canon makes a great product; they have for years. I just cannot see the advantage of obtaining a Canon over the D300 for the purposes I'm going to use it for, that's all.

As to knocking cameras, Dave, it seems YOU have had a real issue with anyone considering anything other than Canon. From the outset you've basically stated anything else is a pos... Ok, that's your opinion, but it isn't mine...

Since you're a self-appointed professional, I'm sure you have tons more experience than I have.. I've stated from the outset that I'm really not experienced in this and have been trying to learn. It's too bad that you haven't really read my posts or you would have possibly absorbed that little tidbit.. I'm not going to use this camera for anything even close to any professional level..

I also didn't accuse anyone here of brand loyalty to the exclusion of anything else.. VTi at least has been fairly neutral on the subject and it's much appreciated.. YOU, on the other hand, have nothing but obvious disdain for anything other than Canon.

Do you have a 1DmkIII on a pedestal that you bow to every morning????


Geez, man....

Sorry if I got a bit hot here, but your last post has me thoroughly PO'd...


Ok, for the record: EOS 1DmkIII is (ala Canon website) $4,495. The 1DsmkIII is the one that's $7,999.00..

MY MISTAKE... HAPPY NOW???

Last edited by Redneck; 02/20/08. Reason: clarification

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Originally Posted by VTi
Canon does take good care of me.

The "fan boy" thing gets me a bit irritated as well. Honestly, I'm as least loyal of a consumer as can possibly be. I'm all about top performance, even obsessed to a certain extent.


Did not mean to imply to you, or really anyone here that they're biased to the extent that nothing else will be considered, exception being to Stetson, who has posted indications otherwise.. What I was trying to say is that I understand there CAN (emphasis) be some brand loyalty there that tends to push one toward a product ahead of others.. And I'm the same way and I admit it.. I won't drive a truck other than a Ford, and my favorite rifle's a Win. M70.. That said, I never, ever, tell someone that whatever they choose other than those two items is a pos.. I build rifles on several actions, Rem, Win, Mausers and the like.. They're all rifles to me.. I just know the M70's better...

I sincerely did not mean to imply you're guilty of overt bias.. You're pm's to me have always been courteous, informative and neutral as much as possible..

I fully appreciate that, more than you may know..

But please keep in mind that you guys are pretty much professional photogs, while I'm a novice and clearly stated so right up front.. No sense trying to explain trigonometry to a 10 year old... Gotta add, subtract, multiply and divide first.. That's where I'm at..

To Stetson, this D300 is a P&S.. His opinion, stated in the manner above, is not the way to win fans...

Obviously, this is not the forum to learn anything about photography... Too bad, really.. I was hoping for better.


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How about if you start by backing up that accusation that you just deleted out of your post slick!
I think I've actually tried rather dilligently to help you out here and in private. More than once you have flat out made rather thinly veiled suggestions a few of us are nothing more than Canon Fan boys which is just plain offensive when some one is trying to help you out. You have posted seriously jacked Canon prices more than once. Your the only one here stuck on brand loyalty and you've mentioned it several times. I started with Nikon. That's where my comfort zone was. If Nikon come out with better gear I'll just be one of many going back to Nikon. Hasn't happened yet but who knows what the future will hold.

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I deleted nothing.. Just added that I was wrong on my price for the body.. And admitted I was wrong..

Apparently you can't even figure THAT out..


Have a great day, Slick..


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You were right about one thing: you were quite neutral in your replies to pms..

This is from one of them: "If you are interested in Nikon you may want to check out the Nikonians web site.The D300 is indeed a sweet machine. If you get it I Hope to hear if you like it. "

So, why now do you call it a P&S camera and that it's a crappy item compared to a similar Canon..


Sorry Stetson, I just don't get the serious change in tone..

If I offended someone by making any comment about brand loyalty, I sincerely apologize, and I won't make that mistake again. I had no idea everyone here was so touchy on that subject..

Heck, if someone says I'm biased toward a M70, I'm all smiles..

I'll just stay off this forum.. Sorry to cause everyone such grief...

I'm gone...





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Originally Posted by Redneck

To Stetson, this D300 is a P&S.. His opinion, stated in the manner above


I never suggested the D300 was a P&S. Far from it. However, you have sent me multiple PM's that were little more than laundry lists of why the D300 is better than any thing Canon makes. That's just not the case. The point that you have missed through out this thread and in private is that the D300 does take a technical edge over the 40D. However, **IF** you personally are unable to fully understand and utilize the format, 14bit RAW etc. and understand the features it provides you personally will not see any gain from the D300. All indications from you are that YOU will be using it as a P&S. I think it's already been said that for a newb the choice should have been easy.
As far as winning fans I very much doubt any one appreciates trying to help some one out only to be accused of being a fan boy.

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Originally Posted by Redneck

As to knocking cameras, Dave, it seems YOU have had a real issue with anyone considering anything other than Canon. From the outset you've basically stated anything else is a pos...


I'd greatly appreciate you backing this up. And just for the record it was my error above when I indicated I thought you had edited your post. Honestly you have me seeing side ways. I have to wonder if you can appreciate how condescending and sarcastic some of your responses have been over the last few days to people who have seriously tried to help you out.
In either event I'd greatly appreciate you showing me just where I indicated Nikon is a pos. A few quotes of mine from this thread regarding brand loyalty;


"Many independent pros use the the lower end of both Canon and Nikon."


"I have no loyalty to either brand.(Canon Vs Nikon) All I care about is features, functionality and performance"


"I think you could have made a wiser choice but that has nothing at all to do with brand in this case"


"If you are interested in Nikon you may want to check out the Nikonians web site.The D300 is indeed a sweet machine. If you get it I Hope to hear if you like it. "






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So Will( You all remember Will, he's the guy who started this thread, asking for some advice), how do you like your new camera gear?

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Redneck. I would like to help clarify one thing. Stetson really was not suggesting the D300 is a P&S, not in the least. He was only saying that through your postings, it looks very much like you will be *using* it as a P&S. I gathered the same to be honest.

No need to stay off this thread, sometimes things get heated when people are passionate about the subject at hand. Hard discussions are part of what these forums are all about. Sure we could just blow sunshine up your ass about making an unwise purchase, but why would you want that? Wouldn't you rather hear peoples' honest opinions? I rather enjoy a good debate.

Let's talk about why you believe the Nikon is superior, I'm very curious to know and maybe you can set me straight, I'm all ears laugh I do have a 40D that gets carried as a back up for me but I have used it on occasion. I guarantee you this: there's nothing you can do with a D300 that I can not do with my 40D even better. That's the whole point here that I/we were trying to convey. Now, my 40D compared to my 1DmkIII, that's not the case. There are a few (or several) critical features that allow me to produce better images, period. So the additional cost IS justified to me.

Another thing. Have you actually purchased the D300 yet?, or just decided to buy it? If you did mention which, I can't recall.

Fanboyism now aside, let's discuss these SLR's. There's some good insight to be learned here.


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I want to know about the 5D. grin

I keep hearing it's a great buy right now, but am wondering if I'm going to regret buying it when the "new" version comes out, whenever that is.

I'm thinking maybe I should just bite the bullet now and jump up to FF, rather than buy another crop.



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I think dissapointment with the new release will be very dependent on your wants/needs/price range. Are you more driven by value or having the latest greatest?
I think there is a common misconception that going FF is a step up. No doubt a larger sensor yields better IQ in general but is this the best for what you shoot? I like wildlife photography so a cropper will always be in order. At the same time I'm a bit torn because I also enjoy landscapes so FF would be very nice.
If you put any stock at all in the rumor mill the next release may have been put off for a bit to introduce video capability into the body. I would expect to see the new version by the end of the year however there was no 5DMkII at PMA so who knows for sure. The savvy shopper has been able to pick up a 5D recently for around $1800. Currently 2k at B&H. Recently there was a rebate special with the 5D, Kit lens and printer for under $2500. I expect the next FF version is going to be closer to 3k. Here's a link to a rumor page that may be of interest. Just take it with a big grain of salt.


http://www.photographybay.com/2007/09/18/canon-5d-mark-ii-coming-november-2007/

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Originally Posted by VTi
Redneck. I would like to help clarify one thing. Stetson really was not suggesting the D300 is a P&S, not in the least.
Actually he stated exactly that a few posts above. But, whatever...
Quote
He was only saying that through your postings, it looks very much like you will be *using* it as a P&S. I gathered the same to be honest.
Quite frankly, it's what I will be using it for initially until I can learn more and experiment more.. As I've indicated several times, I'm a newbie to all this technical digital stuff.. If I actually buy a P&S camera, it's hard to progress from there, is it not?

Quote
No need to stay off this thread, sometimes things get heated when people are passionate about the subject at hand.
I just thought that maybe it would be best if I just left. In no way did I want to start any war or hard feelings.
Quote
Hard discussions are part of what these forums are all about. Sure we could just blow sunshine up your ass about making an unwise purchase, but why would you want that? Wouldn't you rather hear peoples' honest opinions? I rather enjoy a good debate.
I hear ya..

Quote
Let's talk about why you believe the Nikon is superior, I'm very curious to know and maybe you can set me straight, I'm all ears laugh
As I (again) stated above, I thought the comparisons boiled down to two mainly basic things re: the body. The fit/feel in my hand is very similar to the Konica Minolta I have now. That, IMHO, should enable me to learn this system more quickly and concentrate more on learning technique vs. functions.. The two Canons I handled did not feel comfy. They felt clumsy to me. The system and controls seemed more foreign (if that's possible) to me than the Nikon. As has been indicated by someone way above (and I agree) it's not really the body but the lens that gets the image. The Canons, according to their website, offer only a very limited series of 'L' lenses that are supposed to be the best. Nikon seems (and I can be wrong, obviously) to have a somewhat better range of their high-end lenses available. The last place to scrimp, as I'm hoping you'll agree, is the lens..
Quote
I do have a 40D that gets carried as a back up for me but I have used it on occasion. I guarantee you this: there's nothing you can do with a D300 that I can not do with my 40D even better. That's the whole point here that I/we were trying to convey.
And that may very well be.. However, as a newbie, I cannot grasp the difference well enough to go to Canon.
Quote
Now, my 40D compared to my 1DmkIII, that's not the case. There are a few (or several) critical features that allow me to produce better images, period. So the additional cost IS justified to me.
Yes, and as a (I'm assuming here) a pro I can understand your choice.. Maybe I can give you a similar story. Let's suppose a newbie RVer is buying his first 5th wheel camper. Gross wt. on the camper is 13,000 with a pin weight of 2,250#.. He's considering a proper tow truck and his choices are an F-350 SRW SWB PSD or an F-350 LWB DRW PSD.. Either will do the job. Both have identical powerplants. Both can carry the load. Which will be a better choice? The DRW wins out for several reasons. Four rear tires = better load distribution and will not have to be adjusted, pressurewise, for the additional load. The LWB means no sliding compensating hitch will be needed to prevent cab damage when making sharp turns. Last, the DRW provides superior stability over the SRW.. Only real difference here is price; the DRW will cost a bit more, but IMHO it's more than worth it.. But then I'm fairly experienced, truckwise...

Quote
Another thing. Have you actually purchased the D300 yet?, or just decided to buy it? If you did mention which, I can't recall.
The box arrived about an hour ago from Cameraland..

Quote
Fanboyism now aside, let's discuss these SLR's. There's some good insight to be learned here.

I would love to..

To clear the air fully, I never (except for my retort to Stetson), ever intended any of my comments to come across as sarcasm.. I tend to post in briefer text that I guess could possibly be taken the wrong way.. I'll try to do better. I've been a member of the campfire since '98 and do my best to help others when there's a discussion on firearms, reloading or general hunting/shooting questions..


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