Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska King fishing closure 2025

I wonder if we can ask for a refund for all the king stamps that have been purchased over the years. Doesn't seem to have done any good.

If you look back in history its happened before. But had to have been different causes.

We knew this was coming again this year. In fact threat of closing rivers to ALL fishing until after the normal closure date has been on the table.

I have no issue with a king stamp.

What I have an issue with is that people have been telling them about this for years. Part of this is peoples fault, if fish and game dare lower a limit or close a season people grumble. They are too stupid to realize a pro active measure can keep things decent and good.

That is likely one reason we never see people being proactive at fish and game. Re active means sometimes stupid moves and sometimes things that will take years to recover. Not just a few years.

And until we get someone to deal with bottom trawling and shut that stuff down or severely limit it, things will not "recover" to normal times.

We are thinking really hard to do voluntary fish logs this year. And turn them into the biologist. They say they will look at any data provided as they get actually basically little data to work off of and its not daily data that can better show trends. Maybe if everyone would ban together and take data and send it in, we could help them help themselves.

I know for sure, if too many fish are taken in the ocean, they won't make it up the rivers, there is a start there, even though the ocean holds every last salmon at some point.

While there are many factors, some are nature, some are man related. Some can be changed. Some cannot.

But allowing things to get to the point of total closure if it can be avoided is a shame.

OTOH I was just talking with a local, they were lamenting the rules that we all knew would happen this year. This was no surprise. Yet they were one that wanted to retain a king some years ago when we finally got a decent run back in. Sure why not, just as they are coming back lets kill em again.... I do not get this mentality that we have to kill things that we have very little of. Non Residents are much easier to deal with to explain we won't keep this or that even if its legal, simply we don't kill a fishery. Locals seem to have a different view at times.

And then you have the issues no one thinks about. I had a boat last year or two years ago, we caught over 50 kings in a 5 hour trip. If people fished that day they would think there are plenty... it was a stacked anomaly. Right place, right conditions, right time. We couldn't keep from catching a king that trip. Yet that year I caught the fewest kings overall....and saw the fewest kings overall.

I am not sure fish and game really cares that much about kings anymore so to speak. I think they are too far gone and if they dont' pay attention to silvers, chums and pinks they will have that issue too. I haven't seen a really super pink run since probably 2019 or 2020... pinks yes. Stupid runs/. Nope. Chums are the same. And silvers were obviously on a steep downhill slope for years.

The Kenai river was shut down to all King fishing thru the later 60's. They knew what the cause was, not nature, not from fishing pressure on the river. They stopped it. They tried to placate the residents with a bounty on Dolly Varden. Catch, cut the tail off, bring in. Two bits each. Yes, they knew what the problem was....

Bhtr

The flipping bottom trawlers are hurting ALL fish. Not just kings.

Interesting on the Dollys. There are 1000s in the river. I feed em by hand with old eggs. Fun to watch em. Had no idea they were the issue and they had proof.

I was wondering with the trout and all these dollies, and no salmon eggs to eat something else is going to take a heavy hit with no food.

There was a time, IIRC by looking 60s to 80s was bad or by the 80s they were back or some such. I know 60s were involved for sure.

So lets end bottom trawling and up the limits on dollies? Take all the dollies out we can? Why do we protect the bigger spawning size dollies then?

OTOH I want to know why I can't shoot wolves during pup season too... would be more efficient...

The problem with the f&g is they love to manage people, not predators. But that doesn’t really fix things.

Take care of the predators and a lot would start coming back.

They won't ever shut down, or even slow down the big trawlers because they are the ones paying the lobbyists.

There needs to be a bounty in cash, set up for the Kenai River, Susitna River and others

eliminate the catch & release restrictions and implement unlimited bag limits with open season 13 months per year, 25/8 fishing hours/days

Specifically targeting rainbow trout & dolly varden

For too long the ADF&G has caved to the flyfishing phaggot groups who don't live in Alaska, but come here to strut & putz around our rivers and demand restrictions for the residents, just to catch & photograph the same damn fish over & over & over until it is disfigured & has no face, then they want to catch it again !

The rainbow/dolly infestation & their eradication of king salmon spawning beds & any surviving smolt being exterminated on their trek to the ocean, IS VERY WELL DOCUMENTED by the ADF&G and so is the massive impact the trawlers have on king salmon in Alaskan & international waters

ADF&G 100% know all this ..... but choose to bend their knee to the hands that dangle the $$$ in front of their greedy faces

Alaska needs a DOGE like investigation of the ADF&G.... effective immediately

Rost,
Go back and reread my post, especially the sentence that includes the word "placate".

Things were uber-political back then, and set nets, drifters etc. were given much priority on the fisheries, which has taken place since, though not as bad as it ebbs and floes. In decades previous, there were fish traps, that were guarded by armed men because of "trap pilferers." There are several recorded cases of murder and gunfights that would make anyone's eyes 👀,

There were never many sporting fishermen targeting the Chinook in those days. The state made most of its money from commercial users. They still preformed creel censuses, and word on the street was they figured out a way to keep the few aficionados who were paying attention to the low return "placated." That is (some say) where the Dollie bounty came from. I will not say they had proof, yet it was a logical reason to not completely stop all the netting.

As to dollies and rainbows, they gorge on lots of sockeye, both the eggs and the carcasses. Those "fish meals" are available early June until December, this you know. The char and trout have always lived in the same waters. Their population cycle is not as egregious (boom or bust) as, say the snowshoe hare's is. But is a fact that their population cycles up and down naturally, as anything else's does.

Totally agree with the trawling. The numbers of bycatch species caught is tremendous; the numbers of Chinook and Coho, compared to the 20 year average of Kenai excapement is ugly.

Don't have time to discuss "taggants" now. Have you heard of them?

Best,

Bhtr

Certainly would not hurt. 👍

Off topic, but I'd like to see how much Liisa has made...what her net worth is now and was when she started. 😡

Totally my fault. Too many irons in the fire and I speed read and read what I wanted into that. My apologies.

I wish I had time to look back into all the numbers and such and knew as much as you folks do. I just want to do my best to learn and do the right thing and TRY to do the right thing and TRY to see if we can get F/G and .gov to do the right thing. I don't want the term "the last frontier" to be an omen so to speak.

Taggants. As of in gunpowder yes. Fish no. Will do a quick search sometime later. Busy working on jerky at the moment.

Hopefully when you have time I may know more.

Will be things I can ask Sarah at least to try to learn both sides.

Totally agree with the trawling. The numbers of bycatch species caught is tremendous; the numbers of Chinook and Coho, compared to the 20 year average of Kenai excapement is ugly.

Don't have time to discuss "taggants" now. Have you heard of them?

Best,

Bhtr[/quote]
Taggants now read... wth. Made time to glance through one article at least now familiar and didn't realize it covered things I have seen and recovered...

Anyway not only the by catch of the bottom trawlers, its the destruction of habitat. Drug along the bottom. It cannot do the habitat any good and what little I have read, if you take it down to scorched earth so to say, it always takes a lot longer than you want for it to recover if it can. The habitat. And then IF there are fish left to utilize that they have to start over again.

One thing is certain I never quit asking or trying to learn when it comes to lots of things. This is one.

But some of the old stuff you look at from boom to bust to boom again, well I may be alive... for the next boom. I won't be fishing more than likely.

The commercial fishing businesses control the BoF. Much of the problem is the billions of large salmon frye released every year into Prince William Sound. They out compete the wild frye. Comm. guys get millions of adult hatchery fish to catch and us sport, PU, get the relatively few wild fish returning to our rivers. Copper river is about the last river getting good Salmon returns. Bristol bay does good for some reason. I think Reds aren't as effected as the other species.

Look at what reds eat in the ocean compared to what the others fish, those that are struggling eat.
Now ask why one fish is coming back strong and all the others are struggling.

Not sure that reds are doing all that well. The BB reds have been on an amazing roll the past ten years but that is about the only place where the red runs had been larger than normal. I think it leads back to above normal winters in the bay. And yet the BB king run has fallen off big time. This year the Bay had good numbers but the average size was off almost a pound which is huge.

The people are the predators…

Tell me you know nothing about the BOF without telling me you know nothing of BOF.

The limit on the copper river PU fishery has been exceeded the last few years and no closure. Hmmmmmmm. What happens if the commercial gets their quota?

Red runs in the basin I work in are larger than I have ever seen and forecast to become even larger. Its no where near BB.

The rest of the fish are miserably low in numbers. Even pinks that as recently as 6 years ago or so littered the bottom of a creek so thick when they died you could walk bank to bank and never step on a rock, other than the first 10 feet either side or so that kept clear by wash... you could NOT go on step in that creek with a jet boat... you had to drift into the river or you would suck dead pinks up...

We’re looking at a potential third year of no salmon fishing in California. I feel your pain but hopefully the measures that were taken will help in the future. When a stock crashes with multi year breeding cycles populations don’t get “fixed” in a single season.

exactly. SO if we managed to rid ourselves of bottom draggers then all the king are going to take quite some time to come back. UP to 10 years is my guess to get to more or less solid numbers.......

Its not the sport guys killing this issue for sure. Not this time.

Bottom draggers are just one part of a bigger problem. Ending trawling would help, but wouldn't have the effect a lot of people think it would. In reality they just catch what's out there. On high abundance years they catch a lot. On low, they don't and most of the kings they catch aren't AK fish but fish returning to BC/WA.

There was an article on the estimated number of sea lions in SE AK. It was a crazy amount approaching 50k. Then they did the math on how much fish each one eats a day. The numbers were mind blowing and made you wonder how any fish where left. I watch them popping up eating halibut after halibut, day after day off Noyes Island. Add in killer whales, whales, birds, other fish etc. What we have seen time and time again is that predator's and "conditions" trump any management you can do on humans for the vast majority of this stuff. Just like the deer. You can manage people to death but one bad winter, cut back trapping for wolves, and let your black bears run out of control and your deer taken out.

From what I understand, Cali is a water issue. AK rivers is a predator/condition's issue.

What’s your guys thoughts on salmon sharks? I was reading that the foreign fleet used to slick them up. We kicked them out to 200 miles and sharks exploded. Any truth to that?

Unless I misunderstand bottom trawlers, they drag the bottom. Thats hard on habitat. Period. When you bulldoze my house over and over again... Regular trawling etc I have almost no issue at all with.

Predators are always an issue, and should also be managed. Its why I shoot every bear and wolf I see at the moment. Not my favorite thing to do but I do it. Sea lions are like turtles in ponds. They eat WAY more than you think they do. We started see more and more otters on the Talkeetna lately too. Not saying but ... coincides with lower fish numbers too.

Lots of issues but if we let those folks drag the bottom its not helping anything at all. You won't have fish left for the predators to eat if the fish don't have a home and a food chain. Food chains as we are talking about are a very fragile thing.

They protect all sharks on the TX coast. 1 shark per day limit. I think that stinks.

I no nothing at all about salmon sharks but other sharks are very predatory and eat a lot. Simply by their size they have to.

When you allow them to grow in numbers one can't help but assume they are a factor too.


So how do you address all of these issues and get some solutions? Without looking I bet sea lion seasons would be like trying to open polar bear again but it shouldn't be that way.

What so many tree huggers don't get, is that no one wants anything wiped out. Just managed for balanced numbers so everyone and everything can have part it in so to speak. So the food chain can work.

Marine mammal protection act would have to be dealt with.

If you’d eradicate 75% of sea lions, you would see things come back quickly. And that’s up and down the coast all the way to California. 35-40% is kings get intercepted by sea lions before going up to spawn on the Columbia?

But they don’t have the stomach to do it.

We get infested with sharks (blue and salmon) some years. They grab almost every halibut coming up. We just keep them with some teeth marks on them. They have to be eating a pile of salmon. Salmon sharks just take everything and you are left with a slack line.

Ocean is a huge place and yes trawlers have bycatch that sounds extreme but I stand by my stance that banning them wouldn’t have the effect a lot of people think it would. Probably zero effect on king salmon and some improvements on halibut. They are banned in SE AK and our rivers struggle with kings returning. Plenty of kings going out of the rivers when young and they aren’t returning.

Right now everyone is pointing fingers at humans as the issue from gear group to gear group. In reality the only humans responsible are the ones who make it impossible to manage predators.

Timely article... Salmon sharks are definitely making a dent. 1 out of 5 kings in the ocean get eaten by salmon sharks. That leaves sea lions and killer whales in the equation too. And the way the congregate in PWS probably much higher on those kings.

https://thecordovatimes.com/2025/02/06/chinook-salmon-gulf-of-alaska-asalmon-sharks/

Additional bycatch information
In the Bering Sea pollock fishery, 35,054 chum salmon were caught through October 10, 2024.
In the Bering Sea and Gulf of Alaska, the 2024 trawl bycatch also included 38,751 Chinook salmon, 48,643 chum salmon, 4.5 million pounds of halibut, 3 million pounds of herring, and 950,680 crabs.
In the Prince William Sound salmon harvest, the 2024 harvest included 9,700 Chinook salmon.

Just a small snippet of the article online by the North Pacific Fisheries Council.
I agree with you that Trawlers aren't problem we have but they are a HUGE problem. Not only are they catching and killing a lot of fish, but they're tearing up the habitat those fish and crabs need to live.
Add in the protected marine Mammal BS, and the environmental issues, and it's no wonder we don't have any fish to sport catch anymore.

BoF manages everything for reds...

The excess fry released by the PWS hatcheries are exactly like the wild fry in every way. They come from the same parent stocks, are hatched, and almost immediately released. Pinks and dogs do not stay in freshwater; they hatch and go to salt. Hatcheries love them because they do not have to feed them.

Reds in the Copper are up because of the hatchery. There is plenty of rearing water, but very little spawning gravel. So they hatch the fish, feed for awhile, and release. They are stocking more than the parent system and that really upped production.

Silvers are showing ocean stress, rather than freshwater. They grow up in freshwater and go to salt for one, two, or three years (usually) with some variation. They are getting smaller, especially on the Kenai, because virtually all are now one year fish. It is more dangerous in Salt and those destined for multiple ocean years are not making it back to spread that DNA.

Yeah it's the halibut/crab that is probably the biggest issue. 38k is a lot of kings but that's because there was a ton in the ocean in 2024. Hit low abundance and you'll see a much smaller number. Unless those genetics are coming back as AK fish they were probably bound for BC/WA. They did the genetics on the homer winter fish and that's where they were headed. Same thing for chums. Hatcheries pump millions and millions out and unless those are yukon chums they are just a drop in the bucket.

So there were a ton of kings in the ocean last year, but very few make it back to the rivers, but it's not an issue when they were swooped up and then dumped overboard dead? I'd rather see a high abundance of fish in the rivers and a very low, or zero number of bycatch.
And it doesn't matter where those fish are headed, Cali or Kenai, we need those fish alive and on the gravel if we ever have a chance of rebuilding the stocks.

There was an article printed in Anchorage a dozen years (or more?) regarding taggents. The theory was that possible foreign "bad actors" had been injection RM taggents (remote monitored) into 2nd year Coho smolt, allowing the actors to monitor via satellite. Theory suggested that if enough smelt were tagged, the possibility to find the adults in open water in the year of their return "might become" a huge detriment to the numbers of return spawners."

Wish now I had saved that🤔

What is the truth? I do not know. Was/is the technology available? Possibly, and yes, in the order of "was/is."

Bhtr

I don't really care as much about wasted bycatch as I do about habitat for the future... If its not destroying habitat or not enough then I'm ok with that part of trawling.

Need to get on the wagon against sea lions then and push the issue.

I see you are saying kings, but that has to apply to all species because other than sockeyes everything is falling and falling fast. I'm just assuming if they prey on kings they prey on it all.

Which brings up sockeyes vs sea lions? Just that many sockeyes currently that the numbers are getting hit hard by sea lions but there are so many its not a big deal so to speak?

I appreciate this discussion. I am learning. Thats always welcome

Tons of kings from the hatcheries in BC and WA and that's why you saw the high number caught in the trawl nets this last year. They can't avoid them. There are so few AK kings in the ocean compared to what the hatcheries pump out down south that come up here that odds are pretty low they are going to get intercepted. And if a few are cuaght it probably isn't in any numbers that would turn things around. The vast majority of kings intercepted in AK in the ocean aren't AK fish, they are hatchery fish that are bred to be caught and managed by the pacific salmon treaty.

SE Alaska all gear quota was in 2024 was 207k of those BC and WA fish as the AK hatchery fish don't count towards that. They all pass by SE AK in May/June/July from up north on the way down. The pacific salmon commission underestimated (again) how many there would be in the ocean and stuck us with a middle tier to catch and again it ended up a high abundance year. We should have had a much higher all gear quota.

One thing about ADFG is the pull scales and genetically test a good amount of kings that hit the dock, both in the sport and commercial fishery. They know what we are catching.

Orca studies show them focusing on the biggest kings as their first choice, always.

I am guessing it would be by far a higher chance of thinning sea lions rather than orca for sure. Orca is probably a battle one would never win.

yeah, that was in interesting study. Orca's a tough on mature kings.

And this from seven (7!) years ago.

https://mustreadalaska.com/outdoor-groups-ask-board-of-fish-to-slow-pink-salmon-hatcheries/