Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Mausers and Military Rifles 03A3s, WW II combat %?

Marines on Guadalcanal,who "swapped" their Reising sub machine guns for army Thompsons, got a rude suprise when the returned to New Zealand for refit. They were charged for the cost of the Reising's with no credit for the Thompson's the big green weenie confiscated from them.

I have literally studied thousands of war photographs over the last 50 years. I look at everything from shoelaces to gas cans. It was probably a decade ago I saw the photo. IIRC, the photo was taken most likely by a soldier and again IIRC that they were all laid out on the deck of a small boat bow. I will check my book on the 1903 Springfield and see if the photo is in the book. Maybe this information will jog some other members memory and know where the photo can be found.

Maybe, but the A4s were not manufactured until 1943.

The 1941A1 was a little earlier. It was a 03 with a C stock, Standard 1903 sights and either a Winchester A5, Winchester B5, Winchester B3, or Unertl 8X scope. I think the Unertl scope was issued to the Marine Corps.

The M1903A4 was an 03A3 receiver, 03A3 hand-guard, no sights, C stock or scant-type stock with a variety of different 2.5 power scopes.

This is a link to most of the 03 and 03A3s manufactured. There was a lot of the last 03 receivers that Rock Island built that were finished by Springfield Armory that are not listed on the website. I have one I bought from the CMP. The rifles were built in the 1929 time frame and mine was re-barrel in November of 1942. My Rock Island receiver is serial number 420XXX.

Serial Numbers

The really cool 03-A3 is still in service and killing elk. This one is super cool, it is an Ogden Arsenal gun with Elmer Keith’s inspection stamp in it…

Nice. That really does make it special.

Winchester A5's were tried in the WWI period, often encountered with Niedner scope blocks. (Often is a relative term, only a handful were procured.) The A5 was a fairly crummy scope (and the B5 was a really crummy scope - I know, I've owned/used them both) but after Lyman bought the rights to the Winchester lineup of scopes in the late 20's they fixed the A5 and called it the 5A. That's the one that has shown up in USMC spec sheets/procurement documents/purchase orders early on, rarely but sometimes. Mostly the Unertl 1 1/4" 8x was spec'ed and the few pics that exist of Marine snipers in the Pacific usually show that one. Trouble was Unertl was a relatively young company and had trouble meeting the demand, not that there was a huge demand. Alternatives were accepted into service including Feckers, and Lyman Targetspots but proving it is sketchy - hard documentation on these rifles is scarce.

It's pretty much nearly a moot point however because the number of M1903A1 USMC snipers (M1941A1 was never an official nomenclature) was a small one, only numbered in the hundreds. One wag stated that only 800 were procured but that nowadays 8000 exist. Buyer beware if offered one. Heck, I even built one up (with a 1930's NS action, pre-war new-old-stock SA barrel, unissued early war Type-C stock, Unertl scope blocks, and a commercial 8x Unertl) and I could probably pass it off as the Real McCoy were the scope not missing the "USMC" stamp - and even that can be faked. Genuine USMC snipers that have righteous provenance fetch enough to buy a late model low mileage F-100. Just the 8x Unertl can command $4000+ these days. Crazy. (And to think a couple decades ago I walked away from a genuine USMC 8x Unertl, in the micarta carrying tube, for $800 because I thought it was too expensive....)

That list of M1903 serial numbers is fairly accurate but not concise. The gents who prowl the National Archives searching for '03 stuff have poked holes in it. I can personally poke a small hole - it shows the last serial number as being 1532878. I'm sitting here as I type with a mint M1903 Springfield Armory service rifle on my lap with serial number 1534475. (I swear it's never been issued and I think was one of the rifles thrown together after Pearl harbor when the Armory was directed to pull all remaining leftover 1903 receivers off the shelf and build them into rifles. Previous to that leftover new receivers were designated for use in only building National Match rifles, trophy rifles, and repair jobs. This one is fresh as a daisy - I had to scrub the cosmoline out of it, the metal finish is dead uniform from head to toe, it's stock is flawless, the mint 2-42 dated barrel didn't reveal a spec of copper fouling when I cleaned it. I could be wrong of course but my gut tells me it's the Real Deal.)

Were Lyman 2.5 scopes ever issue on the 03’s?

Yes on the serial numbers. Mine is not listed.

The historical aspect of these rifles is very interesting. They are a blast to shoot. The Vintage Sniper matches are fun as are the Garand-Springfield maches. Both are sanctioned by CMP.

We are running two Garand Springfield matches this weekend on ETargets just outside of New Orleans.

Neat rifle. A nice late Rock Island/Springfield has eluded me. How does it shoot? I'm curious: It would seem to have a straight bolt handle. Is it stamped "NS" under the safety lug? That's how RI identified their early nickel steel bolts even though they retained the old single-heat treat style straight bolt handles.

When John Beard talks I listen!

Wish I lived close by, would be fun joining y'all in one of your matches.

To my knowledge none of the 2.5x scopes made it onto 03 USMC snipers. Would've meant going through some rigamarole to make it work, only to end up with a scope deemed inferior to the Unertl target scope. The Unertl et al worked on the rifles because by their nature they sat high enough so that bending the bolt handle wasn't necessary. Plus, if presented with the choice between an 8x and a 2.5x scope what serious rifleman today would turn down the 8x? - and serious riflemen back then weren't dummies.

Marines recognized the utility in having a few snipers sprinkled through the ranks, hence the 03A1 Unertl program. For some reason unknown to me the Army snubbed the idea pre-war and early-war, and after waking up they then settled for the 03A4 sniper (which was a fine rifle saddled with a poor scope).

Thanks for the link.

I am just starting to learn the historical aspect of these firearms. My plan was to remove the scant stock and replace it with the C stock, drill and tap the receiver and barrel for the Unertl mounts. A buddy looked at it and advised against it as to not destroy the historical value.

I have an 03A3 that was sporterized back in the 60s that I will build a rifle with the 2.5 Lyman scope for the sniper matches. The CMP allows the 2.5 power Lyman on the 03A3 but not the 03.

Ferris's book on the Rock Island rifle is available, I will order one soon.

First time at the range it held under two inches with a front rest for 5 shots. Shot one match and did ok. The rifle is plenty accurate. Being left hand, the rapid fire is challenging. I will check the stamping under the safety lug.

Yeah, I wouldn't D&T that one, but I would swap out the scant grip stock for a C-stock though.

Factoid: 03's were test fired at their test range a couple miles from the Armory. Minimum acceptable group size at 200 yards for a National Match rifle was 2 1/2" (1 1/4 MOA), fired with Frankford Arsenal Match ammo. Most surpassed that.* Service rifles had a bit looser standard but also regularly did better.

I've seen pictures of those guys at the test range shooting out of windows in a wooden building, with piles of empty brass on the floor around them. Helluva job - getting pounded all day every day from shooting Springfields. By all accounts they were a close-knit group (and probably all deaf as door knobs), so much so that they formed an after-hours social club where they got together on weekends, at a local range, to shoot....

*Due in no small part to the excellent star gauged barrels selected for NM applications. Truth is, all pre-war 03 barrel bores were star gauge inspected for uniformity and not many failed, but some were a teensy bit more uniform than the others which had also passed the test. Those were the ones earmarked for match rifles and given the coveted star gauge stamp on the crown. The record card from the test, which listed the dimensions of the bore in 1" spacings over the entire length, was included with the new match rifle along with the 200 yard test target. It's rare to find one of those cards still with its rifle today. Here's one, that shows perfect uniformity the length of the bore:



And the rifle it goes with (one of the stars of my collection, but alas its test target is absent):

Trying to remember the last time I saw an all original Springfield 1903 in the flesh................

At one time I owned five. Three Model 1903, including a 1918 Pederson slot model, and two of the later 1903A3.
You will see the 1903 drilled and tapped for scopes in sporter variations. At one point the surplus market was flooded with them and many were converted to sporters by various gunsmiths across the country.
If you still have one in original form, please don't modify it....
Although the scant stocks are still found, they were not original. I was one who preferred them. I still prefer a pistol grip stock on my Marlin lever guns.

When my Father landed on Guadalcanal in 09/42 he carried his issued 1903A1. Before he left Guadalcanal, he'd been issued an M1 Carbine, he was an avionics technician, but managed to hold on to his Springfield until it was stolen on Okinawa in 1945.

I understand that in the USMC the infantry got priority for the Garands. Then the support and crew served weapons troops got M1 Carbines, while the clerks and cooks who were farther from the front lines kept their Springfield much longer.

Regarding the 1917 Enfields, my Father said that there were lots of them in the Philippines because they had been issued to the Philippines Army before WW2. The Filipino guerillas were supplied with a lot of M1 Carbines during WW2, both because the size better suited the Filipinos and they showed the Japanese that the U.S. could land supplies in the Philippines wherever and whenever they wanted to.

J**f, my father was a Gunnery Sergeant in G-2-1 on Guadalcanal. He was issued a Reising sub-machine gun. He said it was such a piece of junk that he threw it in the Tenaru. He went back to the '03 but was later issued a Thompson. He was a DI at Parris Island and his platoon shipped out together in August of 1942. Your dad is/was a hero!

When setting up supply lines via submarine to Filipino guerillas, a Naval officer asked Wendell Fertig, commander of said guerillas on Mindanao, what weaponry he wanted he was told "12 gauge riot guns and plenty of 00 buckshot ammo." He was told "sure, we can bring them but guess what it's not just about weight on a submarine it's as much about space - we can bring you a lot more M1 Carbines + ammo than we can shotguns or rifles plus ammo." "We'll take the Carbines," Fertig replied.

Thanks for all the history here guys! Mine is a pretty decent O3A3 that shoots great.



Also have an older Springfield that was sporterized by my grandfather for my father. I bought the 2-7x Redfield for Dad back in the 1970's. Need to hunt more with this one!



Again, thanks for the terrific history lesson!

Regards, Guy

Nice rifles, both.

Regarding the 1917 Enfields, my Father said that there were lots of them in the Philippines because they had been issued to the Philippines Army before WW2. The Filipino guerillas were supplied with a lot of M1 Carbines during WW2, both because the size better suited the Filipinos and they showed the Japanese that the U.S. could land supplies in the Philippines wherever and whenever they wanted to.[/quote]


Off topic but I believe the forum might find the following interesting. Yes, the US government issued 1917's to the Philippine army. When the Japanese captured the Philippines, they had so many captured 1917's that they started issuing them to their own troops.

I once owned a A3 that was completely rebuilt at a depot in an Australia in 1944. If it wasn’t in combat then it was certainly in a very bad accident.