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Originally Posted by mud_bogger
For deer an smaller critters I would go for a 243. Seems like a deer drops just as fast with the 243 as they do with an 30-06


I wanted to say that but don't wear kevlar anymore (grin).


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243 win. great on whitetails and everything else in their weight range. 100gr partitions allow the 243 to "be all it can be". ymmv................

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I'd go with a .308 Win based or a Mauser based claiber in a range between 7.62 down to 243 Win. 7mm-08 and 6.5x55 being my picks. 260 Rem in the running as well.

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7mm-08 Remington


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I can only speak of the rifle calibers I've fired over the years.

.270 Winchester: This cartridge is a .30/06 necked down to .277 inches and fires a very effective 130 grain bullet at about 3,000 to 3,150 fps. An effective big game cartridge capable of taking any large, non-dangerous game in the new world. This cartridge's recoil, firing a 130 grain bullet, is noticably lighter than a .30/06 firing a 150 grain bullet.


7x57mm Mauser: This is the round which served as the "model" for the U.S. Army's .30/06 cartridge. The 7mm Mauser, introduced almost 10 years (1893) before the .30/06 was adopted by the U.S. Army (in 1906), is aka "7x57" or ".275 Rigby"... and is simply a smaller version of the .30/06... firing a .284 inch diameter, 140 grain bullet (if loaded to it's true full potential) at about 100 fps slower muzzle velocity than the standard .30/06 fires a 150 grain bullet.

Recoil is also minimized in this "minature-sized .30/06" cartridge. When I fired both cartridges, the 7mm Mauser SEEMED to have about 25% less "kick" than the .30/06... or about the same recoil as the .300 Savage cartridge firing a 150 grain bullet at 2680 fps.

The 115 year old 7mm Mauser (7x57) cartridge, loaded to its full potential (50,000 CUP) has a slightly greater powder capacity than the 7mm-08 and, thus, it duplicates or slightly exceeds the muzzle velocity of the much newer 7mm-08 cartridge. Loads of this greater power should ONLY be fired in MODERN RIFLES, not the older 1893 or 1895 7mm Mauser rifles which are considerably weaker than modern rifles.

For those who always wondered, but were always too shy about asking, the "7x57" is the European designation of the cartridge with the first "7" being the caliber (7mm or .284"), the "x" spoken as the word "by" and the last number ("57") being the length of the cartridge case in millimeters. Thus, the "7x57" is spoken as "seven by fifty-seven".

Using the European designation, then the .30/06 would be called the "7.62x63". smile


.300 Savage: This cartridge, introduced in 1920 in the Model 99 Savage lever-action rifle, approximated early .30/06 ballistics (150 grain bullet @ 2700 fps) in a shorter cartridge designed for use through a shorter, lever action.

The .300 Savage's recoil is down considerably (again, about 25% less "sensed" recoil than the .30/06 in my estimation), even at standard full loads, from the .30/06 with both cartridges firing a 150 grain bullet. Along with a lower recoil comes lower muzzle velocities, but the .300 Savage's muzzle velocity is more than adequate to handle any non-dangerous new world big game within a reasonable (250 yard) range.

Handloaded, the .300 Savage cartridge, using a 150 grain spitzer bullet at approximately 2650-2680 fps, is ideal for deer sized big game.

With a 165 grain Nosler Partition Bullet @ 2600 fps, this cartridge is quite capable of taking larger, non-dangerous big game like elk or even moose at reasonable ranges (under 200 yards). smile


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Originally Posted by Oregon45
I've become acclimated to the recoil from my 30-06's, which isn't bad, but I'm thinking about building a rifle that would have near equal effectiveness on lighter game, but would be a meaningful step down in recoil. Any thoughts?

I know rifle design plays a large, if not determinative role, so assume that the rifle will have a wood stock of classic dimensions, with a Pachmayr decelerator pad.


It's a 270 for me.

I have identical M721's in 06 and 270--each have the origninal aluminum/steel buttplates--between stock design and buttplates they do kick. Even with my sissy bag on my shoulder, the 06 still had the "feel" of something closer to a 300WM. But picking up the 270 after shooting the 06 is a significant difference.

Of course, I've been using a 243 the past 5 years on elk--the recoil--and muzzle blast--makes everything else seem, well, big....... grin


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I live in Northern Nv, and we have much opportunity for longish shots.
Given that, I have started using a Ruger No 1 chambered in 6mm Rem.(a .243 would be the same) and don't feel like I have given up a thing to my 300 mags on mule deer or antelope.
I might be a little more concerned if I were to use a "mid velocity" round as many have suggested.
My vote goes to the 6mm-243 with 100 gr bullets.


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At almost 50 years old,Ive come to the conclusion that hurting myself isnt nearly so important as I once thought it was,I like to shoot rifles that I can enjoy shooting and like to shoot all day if I choose,I bought my first 243 winchester about 5 years back,and lookin back at it today this has probably been the most lethal damn rifle Ive ever owned,its killed everything I have ever pulled down on with it in 5 years,like flippin a light switch,7x57,6.5x55,257 Roberts and the ol faithful 243 winchester,when it comes to these four,shootability,reasonable recoil,good accuracy,ability to cleanly kill game,its all Good........


broken bones broken heart stripped down an torn apart a lil rust but Im still runnin countin miles countin tears twisted roads and shiftin gears year after year its all or nothin Im not home and Im not lost just holdin on 2 what I got...God and Guns
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Just a quick note...

The 6mm Remington (aka ".244 Remington") is a 7x57 cartridge case necked down to .24 caliber or 6mm... and is about 100 fps faster than a .243 Winchester which is a necked down .308 Win. cartridge case. The .257 Roberts is a 7x57 case necked down to .25 caliber. smile



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Download the 30/06.


"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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and use 130gr TTSXs


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Practical suggestions...There's no need for that here..........grin


Originally Posted by Someone
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Originally Posted by Ron_T
Just a quick note...

The 6mm Remington (aka ".244 Remington") is a 7x57 cartridge case necked down to .24 caliber or 6mm... and is about 100 fps faster than a .243 Winchester which is a necked down .308 Win. cartridge case. The .257 Roberts is a 7x57 case necked down to .25 caliber. smile



Thank you Ron, I of course was not meaning to imply that a 6mm Rem. and a 243 were the same round, only that they were similar in capability.
After re-reading my original post it is clear that that inference could be made.

Again, thanks for clarifying.


Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
and use 130gr TTSXs


But that means I don't have to buy another rifle... frown

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I would say 260 Remington or 6.5x55. With a quality 130-140 grain bullet @ 2700-2850 fps they will shoot as flat as a 30-06 with 165 grainers, and kick half as much. Deer inside 1/4 mile wont be safe

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I'll throw out an idea for you... Start with a Ruger #1, then build a .458 Lott on it. You should have pretty well knocked yourself stupid after 40 rounds or so. Then sell it at a gun show, and buy a Remington Model 7 in .243, then shoot the barrel out of that .243 and screw one on it in .260. At least that was what I did.

Thank god I got older and wiser smile


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7-08


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Oregon45 �

Since you already have a .30-06 a very good place to start would be a .25-06 or, if you reload, a .257 Roberts.

The .25-06 is, IMHO, the best dual-purpose cartridge available. There is an excellent variety of factory ammo, it is well suited to low volume varminting and is an excellent choice for deer and antelope. More than a few elk have fallen to it as well and I much prefer a 120g .257� bullet for elk over a anything in a .243. If you handload the .257 Roberts is an excellent choice. (My .257 Roberts +P loads give up very little to the .25-06.)

For the guy shooting factory ammo and only wanting a big game rifle there are several other good choices including the .260 Rem, 7mm-08 and 7x57.

For sheer fun it is very hard (impossible?) in a big game cartridge to beat the .30-30. Significantly less recoil than a .30-06 yet a 170g bullet will still carry 1000fpe at 200 yards � more than enough range and power for most needs. Furthermore, no battery is complete without one.



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No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

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.270, then 6.5x55.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Download the 30/06.


Originally Posted by the_shootist
Keep the 30-06, and load up 150 gr Partitions with 46 gr of IMR3031 for a velocity of 2840 fps. My 120 pound daughter shoots it with no problem, and gets complete pass throughs on 200 pound deer at 200 yards. My 130 pound wife says she finds them very comfortable to shoot.

Can't imagine you'd need anything that recoils lighter than my women kinfolk.


I think I'm seeing a pattern here. grin


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