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I was gonna mention the creek thing, but Johnny beat me to it. Several times, we've had warm fall weather and had to either deal with deer meat the best way we could or run it to town.

We eventually started boning the deer, placing the meat in doubled tall kitchen bags and securing the plastic bags under a large rock in the deep part of a shady creek. Big Creek, which ran by our camp, runs at a consistant 36 degrees.

The meat cooled out wonderfully and was as sweet as could be when we arrived home. As an added bonus, the meat was already clean, boned, segregated and pretty much ready to wrap or grind.

We've done this in Canada a few times, just to prevent any problems with bears. Bears have struck our firepit, but apparently the garbage bags in the creek trick totally eliminates any meat smell, so we've never had any game meat loss.

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Steve, you don't mean the Big Creek below Tower Mountain by chance, do you?

We camp there for elk...

-jeff


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Used the "backwoods refrigerator" a time or two myself, this is from last year, I was a ways back in so the last load had to wait a day and a half. Good eating all around.

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The rocks at the edge of the creek are nearly as cold as the creek - other than the bear thing, your meat stays cold and then you don't risk parasites. You don't want to drink the water because of them, so I don't know why you would want to eat them - I know the meat is cooked but still why chance it.


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Thanks for the tips. We're still figuring it out and what you say makes sense.


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There are some very good points mentioned here, and some great tips that will come in handy at some point in the future.

Most of my game is harvested during cooler temperatures, but there has been the odd time when it has been important to get that meat into a cooler as soon as possible. I still prefer to get the animal cleaned and skinned, and into the cooler as quickly as possible.

The best thing that I can say other than what has already been mentioned is always use seperate knives for cutting the hair, and working around glands while skinning. The transfer from urine soaked elk hair, or nipped gland residue on your knife to the meat while skinning is probably the biggest thing that will "taint" your meat. And wash those knives thoroughly before using them to cut up any meat.

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centershot:

I know many guys who cool meat in streams. Not one has succumbed to parasites. Cooling meat in air (on rocks) is not nearly as effective as cooling it in water during warmer seasons. If cooling meat on the rocks works for you, by all means, continue.



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"If you will not drink the water, why would you want to eat something soaked in it" was a quote from a butcher that I took a moose to one time. That meat was wet, but from snow - The quote has stuck with me though. I did not have a good answer for it then, and I still don't some 20 years later. I think if it is wrapped in plastic all should be fine. Sometimes you have to improvise. Cooling ASAP by any means available is high priority.


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Dancing Bear: The reason some folks leave the hide on the Elk quarters, sections or what ever is to prevent the meat from drying out, also for helping to keep it clean and in some circumstances to keep flies and Wasps from getting at the meat.
The Elk meat must be cooled (by quartering sectioning or hanging in a very cool spot) AND it also should be protected from drying out for to long a period of time.
I used to live on the west coast and "game meat drying out" was not much of a problem.
When I travelled to the high plains and the east slope of the Rockies to Hunt then the need to protect the meat from drying out was obvious and had to be done.
With Deer and Antelope I normally skin the carcass in a day or two and place it into my custom made muslin game bags for hanging (aging).
I also have special bags made for Elk quarters and depending on circumstances (duration of time to pass before the meat can be hung in a cooler or butchered) sometimes the hide is left on the meat sections for additional protection from drying out during the rest of the Hunt.
If you harvest an Elk and plan on heading home immediately or immediately to a butcher then I would skin it for complete and quick cooling and wrap it in game bags for protection from drying out.
As is often the case here on the east slope of the Rocky Mountains ones Elk may be in camp (in dry and very cool air) for maybe a week or more! I would leave the hide on the sections in this type instance.
I butcher most all of my own game meat and you can sure tell the difference between dried out meat and nice moist cool meat during the butchering process.
Where I live and Hunt a person can get a fresh slice of bread out of a bag and if you leave it exposed to the air you will have dry toast like bread in under 8 minutes!
You learn to eat your sandwiches quickly here - and to protect your game meat from drying out!
Cooling the meat is an absolute and keeping it from drying out is also very important to having better tasting game meat.
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Originally Posted by Jeff_Olsen
Steve, you don't mean the Big Creek below Tower Mountain by chance, do you?

We camp there for elk...

-jeff


Up the Middle Fork of the John Day River, Desolation Unit.

I have killed a few elk and guided folks to a few more. Let me state that I have always skinned elk right there. Gut, skin, quarter and hang; in just persactly that order. Takes about two hours for a man alone ... sometimes, up to three hours if he has help. grin

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I guess I ahve always worried about getting the meat cooled quickly withb elk vs a layer drying out,although I can under stand why some worry about that. I too hunt dry Colorado. My elk gets skinned all the time,no matter when the season. It usually hangs 4-5 days in bags made of bed sheets incamp. Not as much if the westher is warm, evern if I have to make a trip home with it to put it in a cooler.If I can, I leave the hide on deer.
Once home and butchering I always remove all the viscera anyway on the outvside the meat. I usually have a crus tabout 1/8 inch thick. With a fine fillet knife,the viscera and thin crust comes right off. I think it helps in that any contamination on the meat gets cut off .
No scientific proof here, but this is what has always worked for me. Might not for some


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If you leave the hide on or off, whatever you prefer.

Make sure the pelvic bone is cut/sawn in two, that there is no connection for heat to transfer from leg quarter to leg quarter.


Also,
After watching Spike and Silver Bullet in action this is pretty much how I do it.

http://home.att.net/~sajackson/guttless1.html




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+1!

Do the same with deer.


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+2

Also as an old meat cutter at a game processing plant, I would like to add that cooling them is very important, as you all know, but I also agree that the meat under the hide is sterile before you take the hide off as well. I always thought that the very best way to cool game was with a garden hose, if you can get to one. Cold water will cool things faster than air and wash blood, hair, and gut juice away at the same time. I know that in some areas a hose isn't handy, but if one can be reached in a few hours, it is just the ticket. Of course this is followed by air cooling, and making sure air circulates, but without measuring, I'll bet 90% of the cooling is done after this much cold water.

A creek will work very well for quarters too, but of course isn't sterile. I usually hunt where I wouldn't be too concerned about drinking the water in a creek--even though I don't, but I'm sure it is cleaner than the fly poop and gut juice that may be there already or will be there soon after the skin is removed. It can be removed, but you've just tripled or more the amount of work that finishing you meat will require, and reduced the amount that gets saved.


Also once the meat is exposed to the air a "rind" of dried out meat starts to form around the fresh meat. If your going to finish the processing right away, it's minor, but if it's going to be a few days of more, it's like jerky around your steaks. The air that dries it up also has dust and germs in it.

I think the best thing you can do (hunting in a few hours of home or a friend's home) is as soon as one person kills an animal, get it gutted, pelvis split, leave the hide on (especially if there is much dragging or packing to be done) get it in the truck and head for the hose. Hose it for an hour or more, it'll be really clean by then. Make sure to get lots of water over the rounds and shoulders too--don't just keep washing the body cavity. Then worry about the other tags that your buddy needs to fill. (better yet, have someone at home hosing, while the guys go back out--if you know what I mean wink ).

When the hunting is done, or in a day or two, go ahead and skin them where you hung them and the hose still reaches, and wash them plenty again when skinned. They're ready for the butcher block.

This info is for cool Wyoming weather, or for those that have coolers to hang animals in, and for those that didn't pack way into the wilderness. It's probably not right for those in Texas, Arizona, and places that aren't frosty at night, or snowy, when it's time to go hunting.


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I used to hunt areas that opened on September 10, now they open on Sept. 20 or 26, but regardless it is 40-60 degrees during the day and from 20 to 40 degrees at night. All of the horse gear is mine, including the canvas panniers, and people may skin or not skin their elk quarters, as they wish. Once they've been quartered they both make a mess of my panniers.
In 38 years only one individual who based everything he knew on his experience with beef has skinned his animal, and that might be because he shot it everywhere but the soles of its feet. Whether it was a moose or elk the only one that didn't get chilled out at night and keep fine was one shot through the front shoulders twice. It never froze at night and the meat around the wound began to sour, so we trimmed it, threw the rib cage away, and kept the loins in a cooler and the shoulders in game bags. End of problem, even though we were in camp for 10 days. There is no running water where I hunt to wash off quarters.
I confess we skinned and quartered a half dozen antelope killed during a hunt that Wyoming used to run in August because it was too hot, and we put them in coolers.
I don't like the dirt, hair, pine needles, leaves, fluids, and solids that get all over skinned quarters when people lapse into their slasher mode while gutting and skinning, nor the 1/4 inch dry rind that once was good meat that forms on the skinned quarters.
Nobody has ever convinced me that skinned game is better than game that wasn't skinned, only that I lose less meat when animals aren't skinned in the field. There is also less blood and gore on me after loading and unloading quarters with hides still on them from horses, putting them up on meat poles and taking them off, and loading and unloading them from the truck.
But a lot of this is just like "Which caliber is best for....", and I doubt minds will change.


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skinning is optional. getting it cooled out quickly and thoroughly is not. do what it takes.


Originally Posted by BrentD

I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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