Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mauser cartridges

I am interested to know what Paul Mauser, (I think that was his first name) knew and how he came to know it. The cartridges he dreamed up, 7X57, 8X57, 6.5X55 were some of the first smokeless cartridges invented and are still very popular. I own a 7X57 and 6.5X55 myself. It seems he knew more about effective rounds than anybody. Maybe I should buy a book.

The 8x57 actually predates the Mauser design. It was first used in the German Commission rifle of 1888. It was designed by a military board.

The first truly modern Mauser designs in the early 1890s were designed around whatever cartridges the various militaries for whom they were built wanted. Since the 8x57 was the state of the art at the time, they were usually similar if not directly based on the 8x57. Thus the 7x57 went to most of the Latin countries in the Americas. In Argentina, Turkey, and a few other places the 7.65x53 was chosen. A committee from Sweden and Norway came up with the 6.5x55 in 1891. Sweden used it in their Mauser and Norway in their Krags. The Model 98 was meant for the German Army, so it was designed around the 8x57.

The 8x57 was the trendsetter and started a revolution in design. All of the world's militaries decided they had to match it. All of those old cartridges, the 7x57, 6.5x55, and our own 30-06 were the result.

The true "Mauser" cartridges are the ones like 9.3x62 and 9x57 designed by the company for sale in their sporting rifles. The others were the results of military specifications and probably would have been chambered in some other rifle if the Mauser designs hadn't been chosen.

What joe said.

If you want one book with the details get Jon Speed's Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles which covers the military antecedents as well as the sporting rifles. Much of Speed's source material is reproduced in the book includes really interesting stuff from the Mauser factory.

jim

Cartridges that have been adopted by militaries tend to be carefully researched. Almost all my rifles shoot military cartridges: 308, 30-06, 7x57, 6.5x55, 223, and 7.62x54R.

Been reading ALOT about the 9.3x62mm cartridge as I'm getting a rifle chambered for it. In an article by Gil Sengel in HANDLOADER #244 about the 9.3x62mm he says early on the cartridge was listed as the 9.3x62mm Mauser which gave people the impression it was developed by the Mauser company. He could find no indication that Mauser/DWM was involved in its development. What he did discover through other references was that the originator of the 9.3x62mm was the Berlin gunmaking firm of Otto Bock. Who would of thought! But might as well give credit where credit is due. Here's to Mr. Bock for a FINE cartridge.

til later

Don't forget the 7.65x53. It (1891) predates all the above mentioned mauser-deveopled cartridges.

EZE..,

And here's to Mr.Bock for a fine beer,too! (Probably not the same guy, cheers to him anyway).

Honestly, I could hunt the world with a 7X57 and a 9.3X62 and not want for a thing. The Germans had it right 100 years ago.

WOW OUTCAST,and I thought I was the only one who liked dark beer. Long live Guinness X-tra Stout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tried Samuel Adams Winter Lager(seasonal brew)?

til later

The 7.65x53 -- a virtual .308 developed 60 years earlier -- like the others mentioned, was developed by a military organization to replace and update their small arms. In the case of the 7.65x53, that nation would be Belgium, which had Mauser develop the 1890 rifle, which was improved to the 1891 model that Argentina also adopted.

As noted, the 8x57 was developed for the 1888 Commission Rifle, often mistakenly called the 1888 Mauser, though it is closer in design to a Mannlicher-Schoenauer (without the Mannlicher-designed rotary magazine) than a Mauser.

Fascinating stuff -- imagine what they could have done if they had Reloder 15 and TSX's... .

DN

American wildcatters took the 7x57 down to .257 Roberts,and then further to what would become the .244 Remington/6mm Remington.The Germans went to the 6.5x57 and then to the 6x57 before 1900.Essentially the same cartridge,arrived at by a slightly different path.They never did have any success with it,an idea way before it's time.

You will both note that it WAS mentioned.

Those rounds ran at very high pressures for the time, much like the WSMs. Early 30/06 loads required nearly 60k psi to launch a 150-grain bullet at 2,700 fps. Can you imagine shooting that in a low-numbered '03 Springfield? Those cartridges are only reasonable and well-balanced in hindsight, and with modern powders.

On the other hand, the teams who designed the 8x57 and 6.5x55 knew quite a bit about killing people, so it's no wonder that their cartridges were good at that.


Okie John

From a European standpoint, I suppose you might argue that the 270 is just a stretched and slightly necked down 7x57. With modern pressures, the two are practically ballistic twins.

Ya'll talk about military cartridges and leave out the 45-70? It's still one of the best, inside 150 yards, elk cartridges ever designed. Don't even need magic X types or Partitions to make stuff pretty dead.

Wayne

Wayne, I concur with your appreciation of the 45-70. Concerning effective range, the limitation lies with the shooter, not the 45-70 caliber. It will do it's job waaay past 150 yards as long as the shooter can put it in the right place. Therein lies the challenge.

-

Yeah, but this thread's topic is Mauser cartridges and not military cartridges in general. But, I guess we could discuss the .43 Mauser (1871) versus the .45-70....

-Bob F.

The Europeans were way ahead of the US in small arms and ammunition development. Witness the 7.65x53, 6.5x55, 7x57, 8mm Lebel, etc. The US Army was still shooting 45-70 single shots when the Europeans were selling smokeless powder, jacketed bullets, repeating rifles, etc. world-wide.

On the sporting front, the US had many more hunting opportunities and hunters than did Europe , so unless a manufacturer sold and got a real foothold over here, his market was limited, except for international military sales.

Also remember, the 45-70 was successfully used for 1,000 yard target shooting in the 1890's.

In addition to Mauser Gmbh, there were the other engineers and companies developing cartridges for the Mauser, or based off the 8x57.

Sweden had Mauser build them some 1893s to handle higher pressures in the 6.5x55 than the Norwegian Krag-Jorgensen could handle. When the 6.5x55 Swede proved itself, Mauser built the 1896 for it. the first ones were built with Swedish steel, per the order from the King of Sweden.

Brenneke developed the 8x68mm before WW1.
Then he shortened it to 8x64.
Then he necked it down to 7x64, which is still in production.

Post-war saw the 8x60mm to circumvent the Treaty of Versailles, followed by the 6.5x57mm 9x57mm and 9.3x57.

Actually, I think the 6.5x57mm 9x57mm and 9.3x57 were introduced prior to WWI. The sources I've read indicate introduction around 1900 though none of the references I've read can pin down the exact year of introduction.



-Bob F.