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Going back to the original question...........338 for me.


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Agreed, my two current 9.3x62 rifles and my gorgeous old Waffen-Oschatz sporter so chambered plus my Merkel drilling in 9.3x74R all do a comfortable 2400 fps-mv with the 286 NP and superb accuracy. I have not yet been able to obtain any Western Big Game powder to get the extra 100 fps. as shown in JB's loads, but, hope to as this makes the old gem of a cartridge a hell of a round, for any B.C. use, anyway.

My usual loads for my custom P-64-.375H&H "shorty" built specifically as a Grizzly protection rifle for working in northern B.C., with it's 20"bbl. give the 300NP about the same velocity and, although I can and have gone a tad "hotter" with this, the reliablity and "shootability" of this load, which clocks 2540 in my original P-64-,375 are so good that I consider it my best choice.

So, the REAL difference between the 9.3x62 and the .375H&H HERE is quite small and, after owning/using 7 CRF .375s, I can say that while you CAN do 2600 and even a tad more with the 300 NP, it becomes an exercise in diminishing returns due to the obvious increase in felt recoil. Since you have to HIT the bear or whatever to protect/defend yourself, the conclusion is obvious.

So, whether one uses/carries or simply is dreaming about a Grizzly hunt/defence situation, my opinion is that any of these rounds will work well and the best choice is the one chambered in the rifle YOU feel most competent with. One doesn't have to shoot an animal to determine this and since VERY few of us here have even SEEN a wild Grizzly OR shot one, this is the most commonsense approach.

Funny how Grizzlies seem to arouse as much antagonism as sleeping bag fills, wool versus synthetic longjohns and CRF versus PF....must be late winter cabin fever as it has snowed like hell here in Vancouver this weekend and kept me away from the range, others may be in similar straits and are getting ornery due to frustration, not being able to cheerfully blast those charging paper targets!

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Originally Posted by Tom264
Going back to the original question...........338 for me.


Me too. smile smile

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Bob
Small point on your chart... A 338-06 and a Whelen with the same weight bullet and velocity will not be running the same pressures...

As someone that has seen hundreds upon hundreds of wild brown/grizzly bears, shot two Kodiak bears of my own, been there when quite a few more were shot and been bluff-charged numerous times I am happier to see 30-06 in someone's hands than a 338 they are afraid of. I have seen more folks afraid of their 338 than any other cartridge.
YMMV
art


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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Bob
Small point on your chart... A 338-06 and a Whelen with the same weight bullet and velocity will not be running the same pressures...


Oh, I agree. I was just trying to list a reasonable velocity range (2400-2500) that the .338-06 and .35 Whelen are capable of with a 250 gr bullet, for the sake comparison to the other cartridges.

-Bob F.


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On the same token, a person who is proficient with a given gun, regardless of caliber can at times do very well in any situation. Of course, anything can happen if one's luck runs out. In the book titled Some Bears Kill, there is the story of a fellow from Florida, I believe, who was very proficient with his .30-06 over there. Then he moved to Alaska and became a resident. This time he was using a .338WM and loads with 250-grain Partition. He landed his boat, proceeded to walk on a trail looking for moose to hunt, and came upon four grizzly bears feeding on a moose carcass. I don't remember the exact details, but one of the bears ran and the rest charged. He managed to fire his rifle four times killing two of the bears and injuring the third, reloaded one round and shot the injured bear at point blank on the head killing it instantly.

I don't hunt bears, but I have great admiration for a person who can accomplish such a feat, and still live to tell the story without a scratch. Bud Kunkle, a guide from Fairbanks (long gone now) had killed grizzly bears on a full charge with his .30-06, but back then the .30-06 was the "big kid in the block" in Alaska, along the .375 H&H.

Now, regarding Alaska guns, this will give you some ideas:
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=huntingbulletin.hntbul8#cartridges

Here is a reloading chart/ballistics for the 9.3x62, which shows a typical bullet speed with a 286 grainer. Some folks may be able to push the bullet speed past the recommended maximum, but the same can be accomplished with the .338WM, and the .375H&H. In fact I hear of .35 Whelen shooters who load 250-grain ammo for their rifles at 2,600 fps, and I have reached 2,700 fps with the same bullet weight in my .338WM using Nosler Partition bullets.
http://www.norma.cc/sortimentladd.asp?Kaliber=9,3x62&Lang=2

And here is another from "accuratereloading"
http://www.accuratereloading.com/9362.html

Last edited by Ray; 03/31/08.
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this discussion reminds me of the old "one shot stop" discusions regards handguns. While handgun use does not usually involve things with teeth sometimes a person has found a need to use one of them under very stressful conditions to prevent themselves from getting killed. I will never see a grizzly in my life, so my opinions don't really matter, but I am curious maybe one of the people who has actually killed a charging grizzly at close range can answer me this? If you have a gun in 30-06 that you can shoot and hit with and you don't piss or crap your pants but instead are able to shoot and hit, then how can a 220 grain .308 caliber Barnes bullet shot clear thru a bear be less effective than a 300 grain .37 caliber Barnes shot shot clear thru the same bear? A hole is a hole, I can see a problem if one does not shoot all the way thru the animal but if both do then a hole is a hole, one should stop/kill as fast as the other.


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If I needed something larger than a 338WM, I would go straight to the 375 Ruger� I would not pass go, I would not collect $200.
That said speaking as one who have only seen a big bear in a zoo� 338WM.


That which does not kill us makes us stronger

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Canucks have a lot going for them� beer is not one of them. I vote for English beer and the 338WM


That which does not kill us makes us stronger

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I seriously doubt that you have ever tasted good Canadian beer and if you did, the quality would amaze you. I do not refer to liquid garbage like Molson's "Canadian" or Labatt's whatever, these are swill for the "lunchbuckets" to fuel their inadequate fantasies with; I mean REAL beer, such as many of those brewed here in B.C.

SOME British beers, notably those from "The Old Brewery" in Tadcaster, in Yorkshire, ARE wonderful, but, the Canadian brewing tradition is 400 years old, at least, this very year and we make brews equal to the finest anywhere.

Your vote for the .338WM saves you from SERIOUS Canuck wrath, like being drowned in a vat of Maple Syrple!!!!! smile

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Originally Posted by Furprick
There are no flies on the 338Win, it is the prefered round for elk in these parts as g-bear are always present. My cousin has shot elk and g-bear with it, 225 FXB and Now TSX bullets work well. For me i have owned 2 338Wins, shot some moose and bears with the first one, the 2nd was bought because it was SS, couldn't get that one to shoot to my satisfaction so I let it go. What the whole experience taught me was big, fast, and or heavy is not the total answer in downing big game, game bigger than deer. The whole time during this 338 experment i was shooting game with the 35 Whelen. This round with the 250 gr FXB is equal aor better than the 338, I say better as it is easier to place shots well. I remember in 2001 I shot a bull moose, average big in size, guess 1100 lbs, with the 35. It was standing accross a small lake at just over 300yds facing us, my partner says to wait until it turns side ways, I said I can not knock him down with that shot, he needed to be knocked down on the spot as it wood take an hour to get to him,so with the 35 I amied for the point of his nose, the bullet entered center of the chest and was found under the skin near his anus, thats 7 ft of moose, he dropped on the spot and never moved. I wood not try that shot with anything less than a good medium.

I wanted to take my .35 Whelen with 250 gr FXB for grizzly but my guide talked me out of it. Things happened and I finally took my .416 Taylor with 350 grain TSX. After hearing of the 7 ft of penetration you got on a moose, I don't think I'd give it a second thought about taking the .35 Whelen in grizzly country. Barnes has stopped making the 250 grain flavor, more's the pity. I have a box of bullets left so a couple of hunting trips are still available before I have to downsize to 225 grain X bullets. The 9.3x62mm is nice in my CZ550 FS for a brush gun. I have debated on using a peep sight (NECG) but want to comparison test it side by side with my .375 Ruger Hawkeye, which has its peep sight ready for testing. The CZ 550 is heavy, 7.75 lbs without a scope, but points well. All of my .338 Win Mag experience has been with low power variable scopes and 24 inch barrels. I have no proof how well they'd work on something big, fast, and up close wanting to make people-burger out of me. More perforated pie plates at close range are needed or at least wanted. My wife thinks this is play, we armchair "grizzly bear" hunters know it is serious work. There is a good reason you can only hunt Alaska brown bear every four years, it takes that long to recover financially.

Last edited by Carson; 04/05/08.
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Lets see....up close and personal with a big brownie....make mine a 375 HH.


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Blast from the past that popped up on some of my 9.3x62 searching around. Interesting theme here: seems to be some with 338 preferences will readily cede the 375 is ‘more’ over the 338, while a the same time arguing the 9.3 is ‘less’ than the 338?…..while there’s tons of other threads on the 9.3 vs 375 and putting them both in a similar ‘stopping’ ballpark, while not even considering the 338 in that same vein. Hmmm.

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For me I would go with my 9,3x62 as I can work the bolt on it just a bit faster. Ideally I would have planned better and brought my .416 Rem Mag.


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9.3x62 verses .338 mag discussions seldom mention the 3 shot magazine for the 338 and 5 shot magazine for the 9.3.

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This scenario sounds like a wonderful opportunity for me to stand behind Mr. Shoemaker (458WIN) and let him do his thing!


Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and
Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
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I’d have no issue going bigger bore than a 9.3, but a bigger case is likely a detriment for many needs….there’s just no 400 whelen or other larger bore stuff that are commercialized that I know of. That’s a big deal if traveling sometimes.

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IMO, with my perception of the OP, magazine capacity is pretty much irrelevant! If it’s an “up close and personal” encounter, with shots being fired……I’d consider myself very fortunate to have the opportunity to fire a second shot.

So to attempt to answer the question…….either, provided that relatively “heavy for caliber”, deep penetrating bullets are used!

If it’s truly an “up close and personal” encounter and I’m given the opportunity of “a” shot……I’d much prefer a handgun of at least 45 caliber using wide metplat cast bullets of at least 360 grains pushed to 1000 mv or a bit higher. With this I feel that multiple shots are a much greater possibility! Plus, it can be used with one hand or possibly while being “bear handled”….both of these are not a possibility with a long gun! Jus Say’n. memtb

Last edited by memtb; 01/18/24.

You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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No downside to extra capacity.... big downside to running out of ammo before the fight is finished.
I own a 9.3x62 , 338 , 375 & 458 , and live and hunt in grizzly bear country and find myself reaching for the 9.3 more often


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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