Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General gauging pressure when reloading lever actions

ok, I've loaded lots and lots of centerfire, for hunting, plinking, and cross-the-course ammo. I like to think I have a pretty good handle on when things are getting up there pressure wise.

So now I'm going to reload for a 1894 30-30. I know it doesn;t (at least in factory form) generate enough pressure to make the brass flow, as primers stick out a little.

So other than relying on the reloading manuals, can someone give me some indications on when I'm getting too hot for a 1894?

I'm tempted to just load by chronograph, matching the velocities of a chronographed factory load.

Thanks in advance

The chronograph and listed velocities in the Loading manuals is how I determine my loads. The M94 is not the most robust action and .30-30 brass is kinda on the thin side.

+1

when you get to the velocity a 30/30 is supposed to get with a recipe in a reputable loading manual, stop adding more gunpowder. If you need speed, get a different gun. A chronograph is a must in my opinion. Good luck!

Its pretty simple. Do not exceed either the charge or the velocity of published loads. Even though most are likely to occur when one is way over pressure in a 30-30, I'd still look for other classic signs of excessive pressure, such as flattened primers, extraction marks on cases, sticky extraction, etc.

I would start 5-10% below reloading manual max. load suggestions
AND "neck size only". The only case head separation I ever had
was with a twice reloaded case in a 1961 M94 that was in 98%
condition. I also was 1/2 Gr. below max. (This was full length
resized.) It was using IMR 3031 or 4895.

Have read where some people load untill the lever "springs open" Then back off. Not ME! That's way to hot for me.
Virgil B.

thanks guys, I will chrono some factory 170's , then work up to that velocity.

Without at least using published load data as a guide this approach is fraught with danger. What powder were you going to use?

yes, I will use published load data and start 10% off their maximums. I have 4895 and RE15

RE15 is a great powder for the 30-30. Should get very good loads with it. I try and keep loads for my lever guns about 5% below manuals maximum's. Since it is a Winny, get the Lee crimp die, that way your crimps will all be consistent. Les

"...look for other classic signs of excessive pressure, such as flattened primers, extraction marks on cases, sticky extraction, etc."

Jack, those criteria do serve well in bolt rifles reaching pressures of perhaps as much as 60K+ psi; that'sfar to much to be safe with lever rifles. A lever rifle could come from together, violently, without ever showing a single one of the conventional pressure signs. I would stick to book values.

Duplicating factory velocities with a chronograph would be fine IF we used the same powder the factory used. IF our powder is even a tad faster than the factory choice, we could easily exceed standard pressures and get no more velocity than the facory load. Again, stick to the book values.

Boomtube , I think Jackfish covered that in the begining of the post you quoted

Even when following book loads, I sure wouldn't ignore it if one of those became apparent. Sticky extraction can occur in lever action rifles when they approach, reach or exceed safe operating pressure.

You can mic your case heads, you do not want ANY case head expansion after the first time the case is fired, the first time is a fireforming shot, after that NO case expansion. Primers should not back out, if they do you have a little headspace, but probaby not enough to be dangerous, depends on how far out they are. This is A typical of older 94s....

I was gonna say if the lever starts springing your too hot but was beat to it. With a 30-30 ANY of the normal pressure signs are indicators your getting to the upper edge of safe margins.

Loading the .30-30 is really very easy. Work up to maximum loads in the manual of your choice with the bullet of your choice and be done with it.

My favorites with 170 gr Hornady FPs are 32.5 gr Varget for about 2,100 fps, and the same bullet with 33 gr RL15 for about 2,160 fps. Factory Remington 170s go about 2,170 fps. You may not quite get there with handloads, but who cares. A few fps won't affect the .30-30s performance one bit.

Hot rodding the .30-30 doesn't make much sense. That "springing lever" thing is pretty crazy.

I have experienced �lever-kick� in the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore rifles � all three calibers � using both factory and handloads using published load data. When experiencing lever-kick the lever will �sting� the hand, the action does not un-lock and there are no visual indications of high pressure. The cartridge cases extract and eject normally under all circumstances. The Marlin 336 action will display these same phenomena under certain circumstances.
Is this the phenomena you describe as �springing lever�?
If you were to experience lever-kick with an Improved cartridge such as the .30-30AI I believe you are loading way over where a prudent person should be in a lever-action rifle. I don�t see how a .30-30 cartridge could be loaded to exhibit lever-kick. I believe the cartridge case would stick tight and lock the action up prior to exhibiting lever-kick.
I don�t visit all the boards but I have not seen any threads describing deliberately loading to �spring� a lever-action on any of the boards I do visit.

Slim-- I've never personally experienced "lever kick" or "springing lever" with any of the .30-30s (Marlin, Winchester) I've owned or shot over the years. I've been loading for one Marlin 336 for about 30 years now. No lever kick with either handloads or factory ammo.

However, I have heard stories. From the descriptions it seems that the bolt actually opens forcing the lever to open in turn. I agree with you that the idea of loading your .30-30, which performs perfectly at moderate pressures, until the lever pops open is not just asking for trouble-- you've already got it. In the stories I've heard, mostly it seems to happen when trying to wring the last foot-per-second from handloads.

Since they are just stories I've heard, there's no telling what really happens.

Good shooting!

I am trying to visualize firing a shot and having the lever come open in my hand. That would be an eye-opener. The Model 94 Big Bore rifle chambered for .356 Winchester and all of the Model 99 Savages I have used are quick to open at the shot. These rifles operate almost as quickly as a slide action rifle in my hands. It is strange the .307 Winchester (my personal favorite), the .375 Winchester and the .444 Marlin Timber rifle do not handle as quickly for me when shooting off hand. If you run across another thread of this type post a link here. I would enjoy reading about this. The standard .30-30 has enough taper I don�t believe a handloader could experience lever-kick from a sound rifle without sticking a cartridge tight in the chamber � but I haven�t seen everything, not yet anyway!
The locking bolt on a model 94 is not 90 degrees to the sliding bolt but angled slightly and this is where the light kick comes from in the Big Bore rifles with their higher operating pressures. The original Model 1886 has locking bolts which are straight sided and the Model 71 has its locking bolts slightly angled to smooth the operation of the lever. Many riflemen considered this �improvement� a step backwards.

I can tell you that if you over load a Savage 99, you will experience Lever Kick, and 94's will do it too, at least the older ones will. Les

I load 34.5 grains of IMR4320 and the Speer 170 grain FP. This is over the max from the IMR web site, but under what some manuals say.
I have loaded and shot hundreds of rounds with this load. I use it in two different Marlin 336 rifles, and a Savage 170 pump rifle. I have yet to experience any sign at all of undue pressure.
I started with 30 grains, and worked up until I got the best accuracy and velocity.

You gettin' a little adventurous on us Les? When you fire a rifle every thing should stay in place until YOU work the action. Remember that while you may be able to replace a blown up rifle, missing body parts (eyes and such) are pretty much forever.

I know, I have quite doing that, now I only warm load my bolt actions.

I mic my case heads and on a lever action I want zero case head expansion whereas on a good bolt gun I look for .004 to .005 as good to go.

I'm not sure I really understand the question posed. To me a 30-30 is always and only going to be just what it has been for the past century or so, a blunt bullet levegun shooting 150 and 170 grain bullets at around to slightly more than Mach II. And it has a proven and effective, if no longer sexy reputation.

I have not matched many of the book speeds using book loads. However, when I try a load which does not come close and I think I "need" more, I try a different powder. 100 fps isn't going to be the make or break deal with any load in the 30-30. If one really feels a "need" for more than what the old 30 can do, there are a few premium bullets which can feed the need for redundancy. The Nosler Partition comes to mind, that and the Barnes X. (I think I even recall reading that Nosler felt a Partition was not warranted, but they built it to meet a certain demand. I haven't seen that it really does anything a Core-Lokt of like weight doesn't already do as well.)

This is a good thread..that has been aged-excellent pressure facts. The safest hand loads DUPLICATE FACTORY PRESSURE-in lever actions. The lever action rifles-regardless of manufacturer,
do not handle pressure excursions well.
The Model 1895 Winchester does not spring its lever-and it handles 30-06 pressure.

Part of the answer to the 1894 is a half magazine Model 55 Win in 30 WCF. The other guaranteed answer is a Model 71 in 348 WCF.
The standard 348 and particularly the 348 Ackley Improved will handle anything in North America,
particularly with 270 gr Hawk bullets or 250 gr Woodleigh-250 gr Alaska Bullet Works projectiles.


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