Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Your personal, perfect-conditions maximum range on game

Since this is a question just begging for a real answer that people can throw darts at, I'll go first.

600 yards.

About 300 yds for me. I really don't want to get anything that bad.

I had the 270 WSM early one morning and some deer were feeding at a lasered 450 yds. There was some wind blowing even that early. Instead of shooting I got closer and got a shot at 150 yds.

Another time I passed up a 400 yd shot on a sleeping black bear but that time I only had a 7mm-08.

On the other hand, as Jorge said, if I were on some big trip and there was some trophy out there I would shoot further.

WOW!!! That�s really sad just because your on some big trip and there may be a big trophy out there you are going to try and stretch your normal shooting abilities�. Doesn�t the big trophy animal deserve the same respect that you would give a little dink animal on a normal hunt? I know there are a lot of hunters with that attitude very sad.

300 yards with a good scoped rifle; 400 yards if I have a range finder.

This isn't a can of worms, its a pallete.....

If conditions are right... and I have the right gear, I don't have an issue at cussing range. IE folks really cussing me...

An almost everyday answer should be about 300 yards... I mean under most any circumstance....

I have no qualms about a mile though....

Savage99 I totally appreciate your candor though!!! Its your game, you play it how you want! I want to be prepared just in case I decide at that moment it needs to be done regardless. But as I get older things in life change. I used to be after the big antlers so to speak, I get pure joy out of a doe/cow these days... good eats, a perfected shot etc..... Won't pass a big one though, but appreciate folks that are disciplined. I used to hunt only with a bow when younger... I'm much more open these days to both weapons and distances.

Jeff

I like to get as close as I can on big game, and then closer! I shot a blackbuck antelope once at over 250 yards...he was moving away, and there was no more cover. I had to take the shot if I wanted him, and I did. I laid down on the ground, stood my 10x50's on their objective end, and shot across the top of the ocular lens end! I was on a ridge, and he was down below me in a big draw steadily moving away. I was already breathing hard, and my heart was in my throat, and the sweat was in my eyes...it was summertime in Texas. I killed him with a Weatherby Mark V WeatherMark in .257 Weatherby Mag. mounted with a Leupold Vari-X II 4-12x40 with AO. I know the gun is a lot more capable than I am...I was certainly 'maxed out'.

Jeff- a lot of this for me depends on range, conditions, critters and my state of mind.

700 is a good rule for me under the bests of all worlds. (that's as far as the dotz in my Mashburn go to...

Dober

I like stuff close, I do lots of long range shooting but like my critters under 100 yards.

Assuming all the stars were aligned, and I hadn't had a pot of coffee, 700 yards wouldn't be a problem, but I have no desire to shoot a critter that far except for a wuff.

I've also seen more folks screw up CLOSE shots than I have long'ish shots.

Put a dude face to face suddenly with something he REALLY wants at 40 steps and I've seen lots of bad things happen. Seen the same folks flame stuff with zero problems at 400 yards.

my 243 is set up very simple,2" high at 100 dead on at 200 and 6" of holdover at 300 yards,and I just dont hardly get a shot over that distance round here anyway,if one presents itself I spose Ill just have to guess at the holdover.............

I like dead nuts on at 100 for threading needles.

No guessing at holdover, if you don't know it, you have NO business attempting the shot at all.

Open sights 200 yds. Scope 450 yds. Could go a little longer but why.

Many years ago, when I was active in competition long range shooting, 500 yards wasn't out of the question, from a solid rest and if I knew the exact distance. And the animal was standing still and broadside.

Now, several years older, eyes not as good, and not as steady, I think I would limit it to about 200 yards. In the past few years, I have passed on shots at two really good bucks at a measured 3 to 4 hundred yards.

I am not a successful hunter. By that I mean, my lifetime bag is not as much as some hunters yearly bag. The reason being is that I have never tried anything besides a broad side shot at a deer or antelope in the open. I don't take running shots in thick brush, nor have I ever shot a deer in the rear end, although I have passed up several rear end shots. Nor have I ever shot for the largest part of the deer I could see.

I think the limit on distance should have a lot to do with weather, visibility, (overcast, rain, late in the day) the way the animal is facing, whether the animal is standing still or moving, in the open or in thick brush, and especially how steady my shooting position is.

And, very important, the shooter's skill. I know people who should not be allowed to take a shot of more than 40 or 50 feet.

I won't shoot more than 250-300 at a broadside animal. I'd prefer they were closer and always try and cut the distance. I live by the rule of aim for hair not air. But this is just me...

I am in 100% agreement with that, with my dense-cover rifles at least.

The B&C and Zeiss reticles I've been using require me to sight in more like 1.5" high at 100 yards to make 'em work right, which I suppose could be considered a downside to them.

Being sighted WAY high, like some guys like, and then having to shoot through an opening at a critter 30 yards away with a twig to miss in the opening... that's just too complicated for my pea brain to calculate in the heat of the moment, hence the 100-yard zero for my blacktail rigs.

---------------------------------------------------------

I didn't want to clutter up my initial post (asking for people's personal max range) with my particulars, but now that the thread is going I will...

The 600 yards I state is truly a perfect-conditions maximum. I've never even thought of shooting that far at an animal; in fact the furthest I've shot at is around 125 yards. However relentless practicing has, by sheer repetition, got me hitting a vitals-sized target very consistantly at 600 yards with several different rifles. If the conditions are right I could see taking that shot- but boy oh boy, they would have to be RIGHT. Everything from the external factors, to my own physiology of the moment. I get major adrenaline rushes when I am killing things and I am not sure I could hold a rifle still enough to kill at 600 yards- regardless of how perfect everything else was, I might not be able to do it.

Most of my rifles are running out of steam at around that distance anyway, as far as staying above 1800 fps or so. I know that doesn't matter to some guys, but it does to me. I want reliable expansion.

-jeff

Under Ideal conditions,500 yards is my limit,because that is as far as I've ever practiced and the wind is hard enough for me to work with at 500 yards with a really light breeze.

In a really stiff breeze,300 is plenty far for me.

If you have more skill and expeience than me,your ranges will be farther,but really 500 yards is a very long shot at a big game animal.

Britt

For hunting I will go 400 and passed on the only non-typical blacktail I have ever seen at slightly over 500 under perfect conditions. I never saw him again after loosing him on a stalk and have no regrets about not taking the shot. I do have my rifles data out to 600 and it came in handy a few years ago. I stumbled across a previously wounded buck across a canyon, One shot at 475 put him down at dusk when there was no option of getting any closer.

I would rather hunt than shoot game but will not try to put restrictions on someones ability. Feel free to call me two faced but coyotes dont count and I would have no problems trying any safe shot.

Hi Jeff,

I'd have to say with perfect conditions no more than 600 yds on coues wt. Same would go for an antelope if I ever got drawn. The other big game I chase allow me to get much closer.

Jeff

Got one rifle that is not running out of steam... but sad fact is I have not been able to find a range locally that I can stretch it out to see where it starts to fail...

I know the 50s necked down some are supersonic out to about 2500 yards and holding sub moa groups...

I've shot a few 10 inch groups right at a mile in good conditions with my big gun. Its doable if EVERYTHING is right.

But you make a good point about distance.

I still say that everything out to 300 is a no brainer chip shot or SHOULD be for folks that apply themselves. Anything beyond that, and even that if the wind is really stiff, takes a lot of work and thinking.

As to whats not being said here, TOF... TOF can be 5 seconds or can be a fraction of a second, an animal can move in either situation. Granted the 5 has higher odds, but on a relaxed feeding animal or ESPECIALLY a bedded one..... ain't gonna matter.

I prefer all my shots to be under 100 yards.

700 yds and I'm 100% confident under ideal conditions

I could prolly go 1000 without blinking, I know my equipment will do it, but I just havent shot enough at that distance to have the confidence to do it on game.

I'm surprised the "hunting vs. shooting" storm hasn't formed here. It still might though.

I have the info on my loads to the range I would try under ideal conditions and favorable circumstances; in other words for me it would vary and be fluid according to wind, rest, animal - alert or calm, its position. When I was younger I will admit that I would have included time to hunt also but I no longer allow that as part of the criteria.

The thing I would most want to avoid, recovery or not, is a wounded, suffering animal due to a first bad hit.

Under ideal conditions, I'll go to 1000 yard. The drop charts on my hunting rifles stop at 1000. I shoot weekly up in the mountains at ranges running from 800 to 1000 and 1200 with a couple of rifles now and then.

The thing for me is that I have to see myself getting FIRST SHOT, every time hits at a given range, over a period of a bunch of sessions, before I feel comfortable about that range. I've been pushing that "comfort" point out further and further. I'm a LOOOONGGG ways away from feeling like I could get a first shot, every time hit at 1000 yards! That's awesome. Give me a couple sighters, and I'll get on the target and pelt it, but that first shot is the hard one. For me.

You going to post any new vids, Jamie?

I'm thinking about doing an egg and tomato can shoot, depending on weather.

Jeff.
My last couple of videos are just like the others, I shoot a piece of steel or a rock, nothing very interesting.

I take this an entirely different way. For the little dink animal, especially on "normal hunts" you are constantly given better opportunities so there's no reason to choose the hard shot. It's not giving the trophy less respect; it's simply not being able to choose the easy shot for him because it may never come. You can't make a choice not available to you.

This thread is about each of us deciding what the maximum amount of risk (based purely on range) is that we personally deem acceptable; with which we'll pull the trigger and still be able to look at ourselves in the mirror.

Nobody is advocating that just because this risk is acceptable if it's your only choice that one seeks it. We all want to minimize risk as much as possible. There's no reason to take the 99% shot if you get 100% opportunities every day.

If the horns are big enough, I'm going to put a thumpin' on a buck waaay out there if I'm sure I can make the shot. Will I fill my doe tag at the same distance? Hell no, why on earth would I when I know I can get one at rock throwing range any time I want?

That's all I think he meant and if so I feel the same way. The only disrespect would be taking a risky shot if you knew you could get closer but were too lazy, etc. If you know this is the best choice you're going to get and feel confident in the shot, there's no disrespect there.

As for my self I don't know any hunters with "that attitude". Here my range is limited to 200 yds thus I use data to extend the range. For game I limit myself pretty much to whats sure and thats about 300 yds.

For a 'big trip' I would have to fire some shots at the longer actual ranges as others have mentioned. Unless I could do this and confirm my settings I would not shoot further.

Thanks for your concern.

Savage, you'll find it pretty straightforward to hit out to 400 yards, if you shoot "normal" calibers that is, but then it starts to get exponentially harder after that. Maybe not truly exponentially harder, but you get the idea. There is, in my opinion, a world of difference between 500 yards and 600 yards for example... in my case, about 4 or 5 months of diligant practice, at least once or twice a week, to extend from 500 to 600. It's the wind.

At 400 yards you can just wing it pretty much as far as wind. Add a little seat-of-the-pants Kentucky correction and you'll be fine in reasonable conditions. Not so at 600- again just IMHO and shooting the stuff I shoot (bullets in the high .4's to low .5's as far as BC).

I THINK, don't know this for sure, but I THINK that if you use obscenely high BC bullets, the range at which the wind is a non-factor is extended. However, most of those bullets are inappropriate for hunting and might be a real problem if the shot turned out to be 50 yards away!

As to the ethics of shooting XXX (or even XXXX) yards at game, that is an unavoidable topic in a thread like this, I suppose, but that's been beat to death and then some so the more we can leave it lay, the better? :-)

Bottom line, given the circumstances of each particular shot, if I"m 200% sure I can make it, it goes bang. If not its a pass.
Thats regardless of if its a doe or a B/C animal. I see NO difference between any animal, and have passed shots on coyotes at under 200 since i was not confident and if, IMHO, I'm the one that decides to end somethigns life, it needs to be done right NOW, whether its a snake or a trophy or in between.

As to high BC bullets not being adept at close in shots.. its very simple and been mentioned before, I carry stout bullets in the gun. If I have to stretch my legs I can single load a LR round with specific bullet, and as such I"ll be having to adjust my zero to hit anyway.... its very simple to make the adjustment to that specific bullet..... I shoot or used to shoot 4 different bullets in a highpower match, we had 4 stages and I had specific bullets for each. I also had specific bullets for different conditions, IE not only did I use 4 different for the stages, in each stage I often had at my access either 2 or 3 different loads for the days conditions, whether it was wind bucking, accuracy, or average day as to requirements.

Jeff

If conditions are perfect and I do everything right I can be about 10 feet distant...

I shoot at 200 yards regularly. feel confident at 300. Don't get to practice at ranges further than that so I guess I would have a hard time shooting anything beyond 300. Which is a shame because I have a 300 Wtby and 300 Ultra that I know would be up to the task if I had a place to practice.

We're talking "perfect" conditions. Okay - with perfect conditions - I'm confident to 600 yards. Why 600? Good gear, and I do a LOT of shooting to 600 yards. My gun club has a 600 yard range, and I shoot there year round, it's really not a problem. I have to admit that I've never taken a mulie out that far, but with the right gear in hand, and "perfect" conditions - meaning a steady rest, a laser-accurate range to target and no wind... Yeah, I'd go 600 for sure.


Winchester Model 70 .300 WSM with 4.5 - 14 Leupold. Shooting 190 grain Berger VLD's at 2950 fps. It does just fine at 600 yards.


Rem 700 with a Krieger barrel, chambered in .308 Winchester, I've shot "high master" level scores in NRA prone matches with it at 600 yards, sling & scope. Very satisfying rifle to shoot, and good on 'yotes & rockchucks at longish ranges. I've been shooting this rifle for about 12 years now and have gone through a few barrels, even in .308 Win - yes - I'm confident with it at 600 yards in good conditions.

Regards, Guy

I hate to guess the round count if you have been through a "few" barrels in .308. I have about 5700 through mine (remington factory) and still getting submoa at 300. I keep waiting for it to wear out to put on a Krieger blank I have shoved in the corner but the rifle is not cooperating.

Hey, if it ain't broke...

That's one of the wonderful attributes of .308!! Need to get me one of them.. again..

4500-6000 is an average sub moa round count for 308. gilt edge accuracy often doesn't last much longer than 3500-4500 though...
But it means a few tubes would be 10-15K for sure.

Pretty easy if you shoot like I did, around 8K a year.

A good bolt gun in 308 with a scope should be shooting 200s IE perfect scores with high x counts almost every time out at 600... Its what a good gun and shooter can do... frankly hitting a 12 inch target at 600 yards isn't very hard to do.

Jeff

Yup. I do like to shoot the .308 a lot. Sadly I'm only managing scores in the 190 - 199 range for the most part. Certainly not the fault of the rifle or cartridge!

Regards, Guy

Those scores are far above what even a fairly practiced shooter will be able to do consistently....

I was amazed at how much easier a scope seems to make things after irons all these years... I guess thats why the scope F targets are 10 ringed smaller than the 12 inch standard!

Jeff

Funny thing - I enjoy shooting the scoped rifle more - but my highest score in a match was a 199, with sights. Go figure.

Someday I oughta put a bipod on it and try F-class, but for now I'm having too much fun with the sling.

My apologies to all for sidetracking this long-range hunting thread... Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Guy

Not to say that I would never take a shot longer than 400 yards, I just can't imagine needing to. Other than antelope and a few varmints, most all my shots at big game are well under 200 yds. I guess my limit would be 400 yds with my ideal max at 300 yds. Lou

I'll continue to try to stick with the 300 yard limit for my first shot.

I have a range finder and reticles that will get me to 500 yards but I don't like doing that on live elk or deer except under rare circumstances. The canyon country we usually hunt simply has too much wind for my taste.

Coyotes are excepted of course.

I did kill one deer at 465 yards [paced at 30 inch pace]. I didn't like the bullet performance and I haven't done it since.

I shot on base teams in the Marines and 500 meters is pretty familiar to me. So is wind. It is the real problem past 500 yards especially.

Our range has 100, 200, 300, 600, 800 and 1,000 yard ranges but I don't get to use them except the shorter ranges. Maybe I should make the time.

I do know where all my main rifles shoot to 300 yards for sure. And that is from positions, off my sticks and off my pack not just off a bench.

My '06's, a 35 Whelan and my 338 I know out to 400 yards. This is with two loads only per rifle. One is a practice load with a Core-Lokt or Hornady and a second load with a premium bullet/factory premium load.

One thing for sure, however far you know your rifles are sighted in for, thats your max distance without question as you have no business, IMHO, guessing a non fired trajectory.

Elevation is or never should be an issue. Wind can be but with a speed meter and experience, wind at 500 M or 600 yards is a gimme, its so easy for me to drop that first round inside the x ring somewhere with a meter and some known data.....but in the field it can be a bit trickier.

I don't know, but I've probably already taken it.

I have no problem with a 1K shot as that is the range that I fire over 2K rounds a year at. That is counting the competitions as well but that being said people who do not practice at that range and don�t know how to judge the wind need to either practice and become proficient or reign in their shot. Reading the drop chart off of your ballistics program ain�t gonna cut it.

The shorter the shot better helps to ensure that all of the variables in the field have less time to impact your bullet as it flies through the air----including for example a less than perfect rest, breathing etc.

I see all the variables being addressed in this topic except for the random motion of the animal.

"Re: Your personal, perfect-conditions maximum range on game"

Off hand 300 yards. From a bench stable rest at least 600 yards.

toltecgriz,



Most undisturbed animals do not play "random motion".

Guess we've watched different critters.

"Most" doesn't answer the question, plus unless bedded, that's not really true. That's why it's called random.

Random can also happen at any distance, if you read the animal, you'll do the best you can, if you aren't reading the animal at any distance you need to rethink your methods.

One can screw up as easy short as they can long. Though a lot of long shots can be at bedded game, and its a fairly sure thing there.

Jeff

I know a critter can cover a bunch more before the bullet hits at 813 yards vice 32 yards. Enough to make a good shot bad at 813.

I can't read women, sure as hell can't read an animal.

Dunno if I can concur on that one Jeff. Margin for error diminishes drastically when distance is increased, hence, most prefer 300 and under - self included. I like my chances better at 100 yards than anyone on the planet's chances at 600.

I can agree that one can screw up as easy short as long. Other factors come into play outside the 'one' long that don't factor, or factor very little, short.

Easy for YOU to say!

Jeff

I have to take advantage of this rare opportunity to disagree with you. Aside from what I've said already, as well as Steely, just to be clear, the bullet is in the air longer for longer ranges, hence greater "random" movement is possible, if there is any movement. Not saying ths shot can't be made, but it is riskier.

I'm resolute on this point.

folks like their chances at 100 more than anyones at 600... I dunno, can't ever recall missing at 600... heck with irons in a match I don't ever recall missing center by more than about 10 inches or so generally,and thats when the wind changes while I'm looking at my irons, not with a scope...

Anyway Id' take most true LR shooters chances at 600 over the average mart mart joes at 100.

TOF is an issue, and sure the odds are higher, but I'm still saying they can move up close just as easy, but the error may not be as much. Though I've had em duck my arrows TOTALLY at 20 yards.... thats pretty close... Yep its oranges to apples, but it always amazes me that folks can be ok with a 25 yard bow shot where the sound gets to the animal abouot 2-3 times faster than the arrow vs a bit longer shot with a rifle.

The best thing is all shots are controllable, IE take it or not, its your call. And that brings us full loop, if I'm 200% confident, its gonna go bang, regardless the distance. In the end though I'm 200% confindent there is nothing EVER thats 100% sure. Regardless of range.

Jeff

Jeff-

I didn't say average mart Joes, I said "my chances"....

1K and intending to expand

900 would be my max under ideal conditions

Like I said, its not a can of worms but a pallet of worms on this thread, if anyone said Jeff O loves to stir it up, they are right...

.25-06 115g Berger at 2900fps, BC .523
TOF-
100y- 0.107s
600y- 0.760s
1000y- 1.484s

-0.6 seconds(less than 1s) for a bullet to fly 500 yards doesn't effect "random" movement much in my opinion. 1.3s moreso, but still not much.

And up close, even the tiniest little noise or a quick shift in the wind can spook them causing them to jump while you're taking the shot. Odds of this are reduced at longer ranges.

Lil' old ME?

Well so far, so good. It's not degenerated and hopefully, it won't. Folks so far are staying more or less true to the topic, which is NOT the ethics of long range hunting.

AHhh what fun,
For me so far perfect conditions 425yds, with modern firearms 300 is cake. I am working on streching my perfect conditions moving up from my trusty .270 and 440yd rangefinder to my 300win mag and 1200yd range finder cant wait to have the time to see what I can do with it, On watermelons and paper to start with till I am comfortable.

I really love 300yds, seems to be where elk don't seem to smell or care if you are there and is easily sighted in for. Sighted in 3.5 inches high at 100yd I can aim square in the kill zone from 0 - 300 yds without any compensation.

I believe in a good rest and accurate firearms loaded with the best long range load for the purpose. Having said this, I took a 15"+ antelope buck, eastern MT, with my XP-100R in 260AI. The distance was 364 paces, whatever that might equate to. My handload consisted of Lapua brass fireformed to 260AI, neck turned, 46.0 gr. of H4350 and topped with a moly coated 107gr. SMK just kissing the lands. My XP-100R is topped with a Burris 3-12 BPLX handgun scope equipped with a scope level. This XP will shoot .5 groups all day. I was fortunate to have a windless evening and the buck had not seen me at all. I was able to get into a a prone position and had lots of time to drop him with one shot to the lungs. Well, actually he walked about 5 steps before he dropped. Can't breath, can't go! Now, I will say this, I normally will be cautious of long shots whether with a rifle or pistol. The conditions have to be perfect before I will chance a long shot at best.

Jeff

My point was random movement is part of the equation, but no one listed it as a factor. I never said what limit, if any, it would put on a given situation. But 1/2 second can be a world of time.

Toltegriz

I use quick reply... nothing ever directed specifically at someone....

Yep random movement is there... I relay a 75ish yard shot... 2 pigs crossing the road, my nephew ends up firing just before I did, and as a result, I had a total miss of where the pig WAS a micro secodn before, that could have been a bad shot (is that possible on a pig) but lucky was a miss.

random movement is always an issue. Odds are it bites you worse at long range due to common sense, but lets face it, a grazing relaxed animal isn't going to do much normally, and a bedded animal almost never can move enough to be an issue.

Bottom line, IMHO most average folks will get bit by a wind issue before a movement issue at longer ranges.

But the real line is if I feel confident its a green light, if I am doubtful its a red light.

Last game I let walk away was cow elk at under 50 yards, they were alert, I was having a hard time with a clear target identification.... but there was certainly a shot, but I choose not to. My bottom line(not trying to sound arrogant) but I try to do the very best so that if you hear me shoot, you don't even have to ask...
My buddy listened to me take a couple of mid range pokes I was convinced I could make this spring.... ends up I had overestimated the wind at about 350 yards and decided to quit shooting at the head and use the lungs... but his comment was, you never shoot 2 times. I heard the first shot but no impact and your head shots usually pop pretty loud, then 2nd shot... same.... then a long pause(while I'm digging for the right baggie in my backpack with more ammo... and wiping the blood off my knuckle-- Remmy ripped a hunk of meat loose from me having a bad hold on the gun... long story but I was making do with what I had for a rest etc...) and then a THIRD shot but a loud pop...
I digress.

I'm much more concerned with a 20 yard bow shot than I am a mid range rifle shot VS animal movement, after all the bow shot the animal can hear it coming..... to top it all off, and I still aim low cause almost every animal I've shot with a bow has moved before the arrow hit. Doesn't stop me from shooting though.

Jeff

everything right, wind non moving game, flat shot, ill take 600. my gun produced a 3" group at 500, opened up a little at 700 but still good enough to take an elk everyshot.

You got a bench in the woods you aren't telling anyone about...got those elk trained to walk infront of the bench and pause at 700 yds? Insert head scratching icon here....

Perhaps one day I will understand what is sporting about shooting a game animal at nearly .5 miles, but most likely not.

Why exactly do people like you click on the forum titled, "Long Range Hunting?"

Did we mention ethics or sporting... challenging yes. Of course I personally don't see whats sporting about using a firearm on an animal at ALL... its all too easy, and gives them very little if any chance...

A boxing match, a football, baseball, or basketball game is a sporting event.
When I hunt I am trying to kill an animal and then I am going to eat him, sporting has nothing to do with it, it is the same as killing a beef IMHO.
If it were a sporting event then Las Vegas would give odds on the outcome and taking bets but they don't. Niether is Professional Wrestling a sport and there is no odds or bets in Las Vegas on it either.

So tightloop tell us how you hunt, and under what kinds of conditions that are so sporting?

Thx
Dober

Well I wasn�t going to say anything�.But since you brought it up� I got the whole heard trained.

Joecool,

That is hilarious. Great pic.

Joecool - great photos!

Well heck training those elk was fairly simple�these guys on the other hand have proven to be most difficult�. I�m still looking for a ultra long range shot gun�

yep that's a classic photo jc


but tell me do you do the sporting thang and ring the gong first to let them know of incoming?

and if so does it just make them deaf and then you can pick them off at your leisure?

I've not done enough turret work, so for me, 350 yards is my max self imposed limit, and then it'd better be conditions perfect.

Heard tell of shotguns and shot that will take Geese down at over 100 yards....

Pretty much my thoughts too.

I once killed one gaminal (a pronghorn) at @400 yards or slightly less with a friend's .270W and ammo he reloaded - that I had complete faith in until I learned the ammo was made with a Lee Loader where powder charges were scooped unsterad of weighed.

When selecting a rifle-scope-cartridge-and "load," I always select something that will do a good job to 300yds, and add 100yds for a "buffer."

It's called "hunting," not slob's "shooting."

When I started hunting almost 40 years ago, I read, or heard or was told many times that 90% of my shots would be under 250yds. This has indeed proven true, along with ALL biggame I've witnessed others kill as well.

I don't do turrets, so with a normal hunting reticle I would go about 400 yards using a hold over of 18" to 20". From the targets I have shot at that range on a still day I would be OK, with a slight breeze a 10 shot target pattern grows horizontally about 8" wide.
With a Leupy B&C reticle with the 450 yard dot and 500 yard cross hair I would go that far, but not 600. Also if the breeze was fairly steady, the B&C windage lengths of their graduated cross hairs would be helpful.
If the breezes are gusting, I would only go about 350 yards.

The reason I wouldn't go to 600 even in perfect conditions is I don't have anything that will hold a tight enough group at that distance.

Stubble, might I remind you, you are in the long range forum... 300-400 yards is not long range... don't come over tossing rocks... please.... just ignore it if you don't agree with it...don't be a Zumbo

Jeff,

It always dumbfounds me how these guys will limit themselves,
good guys, but they limit themselves. It's all in their head.

Heck you and I can heckle each other and still get along....others amaze me.

Jeff

You heckling me just pushes me to do better, Oh yeah!

When am I gonna talk you into a better backpack like Eberlestock... grins....

Jeff

Hey, I just got back from Sportsmans and I think I found a
Eberlestock I like.

Surprise!

The GS05 or the GS05MU.

2,900 ci and fits nice on the hips to the top of my spine.
I think this would make a nice day or weekend pack.

http://www.eberlestock.com/GS05%20Gunslinger.htm

With my beanfield rifle I don't hesitate to do 600 yards and if I can get to a solid rest I am good for 800 and if it was truly perfect (no wind) 1000 yards. I regularly shoot crop damage deer out to 300 yards with leveraction 45-70 and .450 marlin rifles. The key to any long game shots id practice. The following video if you have high-speed internet has a short tutorial at the end after it shows me taking a few long levergun shots that shows a easy method to learn long shots and can be applied to any cartridge and rifle. reflex264

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3433415096555745370&hl=en

Wished I could watch that, but the quality of the video is flat horrible.

300 yards isn't hard at all with a 45-70 type round. Just know the drop and drop it in. It can be done all day with iron sights. As you well know. Most folks won't believe it though.

And then I talk to MZ hunters that are limited to irons... and they ask where I sight in my iron 54mz. I have it set so I can easily shoot elk from 100 out to 200... and most folks you talk to MIGHT be ok at 75..... I can stretch it beyond that but prefer not to with 535 grains of lead.

Jeff

Yep the video got sorta scrambled. We didn't know the camera was acting up until all the footage was shot. By the time it got copied and uploaded it lost even more clarity. Still gets the point accross. The last part where the practice instruction is is fairly clear. A professionaly shot video is in the works that will show my .264 on some 600+ yard shots and some 200 yard revolver shots. reflex264

reflex264, I enjoyed the video (quality aside, which was pretty bad!) and you are a great shot with that 45/70.

I just have to say this. Please don't take it wrong. I'm not calling you out. Just this- if you are going to shoot video's like that, keep your finger off the trigger! That finger was in that trigger guard an awful lot when you were nowhere near shooting.

Again, not casting stones- just a suggestion. Others will say it much less politely than I just did, once your video's start to circulate <g>!

Thanks for the link, I really did enjoy it.

I am one of the few people that actualy use the cross bolt safety. It has a place. Actualy I don't normaly keep my finger in the gaurd as much as it looks like. I noticed it as well when we were trying to edit the garbled tape. Its hard to hear but you can hear the click of the safety being diengaged on a couple of the shots. reflex264

I'm not casting stones, and I'm glad you didn't take it that way. I have to constantly remind myself not to get too casual when shooting (alone, in the hills) from a bench.

-jeff

Naw, didn't think you were. Actualy witnessed a gent stick his finger in the trigger gaurd on a 700 .223 to get leverage to close the bolt with his thumb!! Fortunately the bullet hit the ground right next to his truck. I was just fixin to yell when it went off. reflex264

When ya get the new one done,let us know. My eyes just can't handle that one, sorry.

As to safetys.... a safety is a mechanical device which can/will fail. Only safety on a gun is you. No negative intended, just a comment as a hunter ed teacher, I dislike folks that rely on safety. Muzzle control and finger control are the real safeties in life.

Jeff

Running my triggers pretty light keeps me honest that way <G>. Especially the Jewell on my Sendero which is sub-pound.

Perfect confitions??? While hunting??? Good luck....handy bench??? Or perfect log at just the right place & angle? No such thing...Any rifle with a 300 yd mid range trajectory of 10" or so should be good to go at 300...even with iron sights...I'll admit here & now though that when I was 11 years old, I had an opportunity to take a shot at a 4x4 that was running downhill at about 200 yds....I never loosed a round because I didn't have the skills to do it(25-35)....today??? I'd have a nice trophy & some good meat....ya gotta know your limitations....oh yeah...I guess I should mention I was shooting 100 yd. smallbore competition at the time....45+ years ago....I still have dreams about that buck even though I killed a much larger one a couple years after that incident & quite a few since...but that one buck still haunts me...Edit to add...I'll bet "E" has stepped over that ground...You listening E??? How about above Hay's flat at about the top of the hill where you can look down at Silver lake on Hwy 88??? I'm planning on trying to find my way back up there this year after a 45 year absence...

I�m new here so I will go ahead and make some enemies. The question about how far you could shoot under perfect conditions is a wrong question to ask. With today�s optics, laser range finders, bullet and rifle performance, it can make anyone that has watched the movie �Sniper� one to many times a long range shooting pro, so they think. There is too many video�s, products and custom gun manufactures promoting long range hunting as an ethical means of harvest. This on itself has created its own industry catering to what I call the �Sniper Wana Be Syndrome�. I have spent my whole adult life training and shooting long range. I have to, because I took an oath, and it�s my job, and mine and others lives depend on my ability. I can tell you that who ever says shooting sub MOA at the range at paper targets makes them a qualified long range shooter needs to take a reality check. It�s not the same as looking thru your tube at a moving breathing creature. The act of ethically harvesting a game animal should be the responsibility of every hunter that goes into the field. This means �in my opinion�, do the best of my ability to get as close to the target as I can, and waiting for the perfect shot. If it doesn�t come�.so be it, that�s a part of hunting that I accept. The real long range hunting question should be not if I can make the shot, but should I even try. Every time a wounded animal shows up on the news during hunting season from a bad shot, just gives the anti�s fuel for the fire. This is something to think about.

We appreciate your service!!

We also ask that you read a bit before assuming things. You are not the only one that flings long rounds. A lot of us here do and if you'll read, you'll note its conditions that control the issue. Sniper was the dumbest movie I've ever seen....

That being sadi yes, there are good shots out there that are capable, the main thing is we always call the shot via conditions, IE am I 200% sure I can make it? If so its a go at that distance. If not we walk away. Whether its 50 yards or 1000. Adn I've walked away from both distances.

No one said shooting paper makes you good to go for game. But no one said that its not possible to practice for game. You should note here that bench shooting at paper is only for testing things, the true folks practice from field positions and shoot a LOT. So they are ethical.

You shoot a lot in the course of a year. There are those of us that also ding down probably not as many rounds, but I know a lot of us have shot 10K plus rounds each year, add in dry fire, add in 22s shot, add in coaching long range shooting teams and you get the point.

It can be done, and I dont' think any of us ever said it was easy. We did say if you aren't into long range shooting there is no need or reason to be in this particular forum posting though.

The antis will have more fuel from the wally world weekend warrior with their boresighted rifles flinging a mag of ammo at under 100 yards and wounding, than you'll ever see from trained responsible shooters that hang out here.

Regards, stay safe!!!

Jeff