Home Forums Lever Action Central Cowboy Levers .357 mag black bear loads

I need a bit of advice for loading a "little gun" for bear. I make several canoe/fly-in trips each year in the northern bush, and I like to take a small handy gun along in case of a food emergency or in case a nuisance black bear won't leave camp alone. We can't use handguns. I have bigger rifles and shotguns, but the rifle I want to bring is a Rossi Puma .357 mag. stainless carbine. This rifle will be almost never used, it's just insurance - and the stainless steel is a big advantage for low maintenance. I have no experience with the .357 on game, but figure I'm better off packing a little rifle that I will actually keep in camp rather than leaving heavier stuff at home. So, am I nuts? What do you recommend for ammo? So far I have been shooting various 158 gr. flat points. I do handload, and was thinking that the Hornady 180 gr. XTP's might be a good choice.

the double tap ammo would be my choice, if you don,t handload, something similar in a handload will be fine.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/ca...;osCsid=8d61416f72c036663971544f144cdb5c

15.5 grains of H110 under a 158 grain bullet packs a decent wallop if you shoot accurately, but a 357 mag is hardly a stopping rifle if the placements off from the ideal.
MY B.I.L uses a 357 marlin carbine for deer hunting, its fine for that, at ranges under 70-100 yards when you place shots well, but its not my first choice for defending and repelling borders at bayonette ranges, ID suggest a marlin or BROWNING BLR in 450 marlin or 45/70 calibers loaded with 405 remington, or 400 hard cast bullets pushed to 1600-1700fps, or a good slug loaded 12 ga, for that application, the cost of an EFFECTIVE stopping rifle, or slug gun, should the need arrize will look rediculusly low compared to the PERSONAL COST if you fail to stop a totally pissed off bear. dropping a pissed off aggresive bear 3 feet outside your tent at 3 am,rather than 3 feet inside your tent makes it worth the cost...think it thru!! theres a couple campers killed every few years, chances are low but hardly non-existant, remember having the bear die from wounds is of little value if he gets to your butt for a few seconds before he surcomes....killing is not the main object ,it stopping him instantly,and doing massive injury thats the object, and shot placement may be less than ideal, if your shooting at a fast approaching target from your sleeping bag, in the dark

Here is what I use in a 357 Mag 10 inch T/C Contender and my Bro in a 4 inch S&W Mod 28. I use it for deer and he uses it for black bear situations like yours. He has yet to have one.

180g Lazercast FP
Starline brass
9.2g Bluedot
CCI 500 primer
OAL - 1.598"
mild roll crimp

Out of the T/C - 1330 fps. Good for deer up to 50-60 yards. Your speed in a carbine should be slightly higher.

If I was in a situation where I could encounter a bear in a bad mood I would want nothing less than a 12 gauge with slugs. The chances of you surviving a bear attack using a 357 Mag carbine are pretty slim. A light 12 gauge pump weighs a pound more? I don't see the slightest reason to use a totally inadequate weapon.

A 357magnum out of a carbine length barrel puts it just about in the 30-30 class. It will be more powerful than the 44-40 Winchester, which was used in the 1800's to take all manner of small and large game. Major Wesson used it in a S&W pistol to kill all manner of North American game. (Yes, skill is always a factor.) Corbon makes some powerful factory loads that should do the job, if you must use this cartridge and gun. The Hornady XTP should give excellent terminal performance if you are a handloader. 158 grain bullets will be optimum. B-Bore has some 180gr 357 loads that are going out of a marlin carbine at 1851fps.

Gary

Thanks for the replies. My reason for keeping a rifle with me is much more about survival situations that may require food gathering, less about problem bears. I appreciate all the advice though.
The black bears in my area have a reputation as camp robbers, not attackers. Even though the possibility exists of a predatory black bear stalking me, I'm not very concerned about that. I've spent thirty years camping, canoeing and hiking in the bush, mostly with no firearm, and have had no problems so far. I don't believe that black bears in a "bad mood" will attack people, unlike grizzlies. Another factor is that nearly all the bears I have heard of that have actually preyed on people were the 150 lb two-year-olds that were recently kicked off the teat to fend for themselves. Not very big adversaries, but not something I'd want to face with only a knife. So, my intention is to pack mostly .38 special lead round nose loads for food gathering, ( grouse, rabbits and such) and just keep a magazine full of heavy loads for "contingencies". I probably should have asked what works best for deer, and just kept quiet about the "bear" possibilities, but I suppose even using a .357 carbine on deer is somewhat controversial. Small ammo manufacturers like B-bore are not generally available in Canada. Of the big companies, is there a load by Fed/Win/Rem/Hornady that you can recommend?

Remington makes a jacketed 180-gr hunting load for the .357 Magnum.

Can you get Corbon in Canada? They have 180gr and 200gr in 357 mag loads.

Wow I wouldn't even consider less than a 44 mag but if your are stuck with a 357 I'd look at Buffalo bore.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

....I agree with many comments above alluding to the 357 being VERY light indeed for bear! It's not that a black bear couldn't be killed with one, a 22RF could kill a bear, BUT it is not a good choice as a dedicated bear stopper! Neither is it a wise choice as a camp stopper for PROBLEM bear! Why gamble life and limb on a MARGINAL caliber for your intended use?

....The handy little Rossi 92 replica is a fine gun from the standpoint of portability around camp, but the 44 mag or a mag pressure loaded 45 Colt chambered Rossi would be a far better choice in the little gun.Better yet a Winchester 94 Wrangler in 38/55 with hot loads (not much more beefy a carbine than the sweet little 92)would up the ante if a rowdy bear acted up. Finally the suggestions of a slug loaded shotgun really swing odds more strongly to your side of any altercation! For something really handy and lightweight look around for a Ithaca model 37 pump gun (even 20 GA would be good), or a used Franchi AL48(this gun in 20GA would be lighter than the Rossi!).These guns with modern slug loads would be sufficient for an errant grizzly up close in camp!..Good luck, and good fortune on your jaunts afield..Hope you won't need bear protection..

OK I give up. I'll just pack my Win 94 in .356, bring some hoarded Win. factory loads with 250 grain bullets and will be prepared to shoot bears from stem to stern. I suppose I could load up a few 900 fps lead roundnose grouse loads for it too. And put it all in a waterproof gun case, and some oil and cleaning supplies, ... sigh. My pack just gained three or four pounds.

better to add 3-4 pounds to the gear than to take a small but valid chance on being ill prepared to deal with a deadly situation if it did ever occur. btw a CELL PHONE and having that "Win 94 in .356, bring some hoarded Win. factory loads with 250 grain bullets and will be prepared to shoot bears from stem to stern." would be my choice, but then, I generally carry a 358 win,45/70 or 450 marlin caliber lever action when I carry a lever action at all. (which I do, but I also carry a 340 wby or 375 H&H bolt action and 35 whelen slide action, at times

There is no cell phone service in the northern, unpopulated areas ( 80%) of Canada. If on a long trip with a group, we do sometimes rent a satellite phone. Most of the time a phone is not practical.

If you need I'll place a small wager that will be the lightest
3-4 pounds you ever carried.

Purty shure that most 357 ammo is Canada a No-No anyhow...Buy more life insurance before you go. Best wishes, Bill

Unlike grizzlies you do not hear of black bears pressing an attack through an onslaught of lead.
The rifle you mention is a nice size to carry as well as the ammo size being well suited to carrying a bunch. I'd have no fear of of using a 357 mag. with good bullets for a survival/unlikely black bear attack insurance rifle.

Brian Pearce wrote an article on 357 levers. Rifle 213.

Spoke of an incident, 140gr. SWC cast SAECO at 2,000 mv. owner had a Browning 92 converted to 357, had a sow black bear charge close range and killed it at a few feet instantly, bears momentum knocked down the guy, but he was ok. Combo worked.

No info on shot placement, or how many rounds, one or more.

Just thought I'd pass it on.

Well I sold the Win 94 .356 so I'm back to thinking about packing the .357. Nice to know not everyone thinks I'm crazy.

No, some of us still think you can kill something with a 357.

A .357 with 158 gr XTP HP's over 15-16 gr of 110 comes awfully close to the original 30-30 loads when used out of a carbine.

If you want penetration the 158 XTPHP works really well.

I have some hard cast loads and some 180 NPT's around too but the XTP's work well at the velocities they are designed for.

I would say that an Ithaca Ultralight deerslayer, especially a 20 gauge has a lot of appeal for what you are describing and it is a lot easier to pot the occasional grouse or rabbit.

A slug is formidable on bear inside 75 yards,and it is somewhat faster to run a pump gun, easier to reload too.

BTW, as to 357 = 30/30, my Marlin spits 158s at 2000-2050 w/Lil Gun. Likely nothing gained by pushing them faster than H110 does.