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Thanks minengr
you and one or two others actually answered the question I asked!
I have followed this "discussion" with interest. It has been entertaining if only because so many just write what they want others to believe, but do not stick to the original topic.
There have been many comments on this thread about "angry" bears or some such. Black bears around here are not considered by most people to be threats of "charges" or territorial behaviour. That seems to me more like grizzly behaviour, but that's only from what I've read, not personal experience. All the black bears that have caused problems for people that I personally know of were without exception small two year olds that were kicked off the teat and were starving. They get into trouble 'cuz they are hungry and are willing to eat anything. Sows with cubs I can nearly always avoid in the bush. Young hungry trouble makers I may not be able to avoid. But I will never face a "charge" from one, more likely an annoying series of camp raids, or possibly a slow determined stalk. But the reality is, I will only carry a "rambling rifle" that is truly useful to me, not for the one in a thousand chance that a bear I encounter is predatory to humans. So I will choose to carry a rifle outside of big game season that I can use to dispatch fur animals in traps, or for shooting small animals for food. That means a rifle that is light, handy, low maintenance and will not severely tear up meat or hides. Like my stainless Puma .357. If it has enough power to make me a little more comfortable in black bear country so much the better, but I will not buy a rifle solely for "bear protection" because I will never carry one for so remote a possibility. I am comfortable camping and hiking in the bush without carrying any firearm, so to me any rifle is better than none. I was simply asking for opinions and experience of the most effective .357 mag. rifle loads for large animals. Thanks for all your responses. I learned a lot!

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Uncas wrote:

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Purty shure that most 357 ammo is Canada a No-No anyhow...Buy more life insurance before you go. Best wishes, Bill



...................excuse me???? The gun shop i was at last week had tons of .357 ammo. His stock of .357 lever guns was very good as well from Puma's to Marlin's. I am a member of three rifle ranges in which i always see oodles of .357 brass on the ground. Please enlighten me why .357 ammo would be a no no here in Canada????

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Castnblast, my experience with black bear is limited to two hunts in Ontario, so take it for what it�s worth. As I stated, the 357 wouldn�t be my first choice, but given your circumstances, it sure beats a pointed stick.

My only real caution would be your bullet selection. When I took my 45 last year I made a mistake in thinking I needed the heaviest bullet I could find. I tried to do too much with what I had. The end result was a bullet that didn�t expand and a bear that got away. Obviously, my bullet placement wasn�t what I thought it was, but to this day I still think I hit that bear right where I wanted. I checked the zero on the scope the next day and everything was fine. That�s why I�d recommend going with a bullet 158gr or lighter. I truly feel a lighter bullet traveling faster has the best chance for success.

Quickly consulting some reloading info here is a comparison. A 158gr Hornady XTP loaded with 19.0 gr of Lil�gun has a muzzle velocity of 1971 fps out of a 20� Marlin 1894. Now, out of a 20� 30-30 a 150gr Barnes with 34gr of w748 has a muzzle velocity of 2168. That�s almost apples to apples. Further research will probably show the 30-30 more favorable, but this is what I could find in five minutes. I would think many wouldn�t have a problem using a 30-30 on black bear. Now, I�m not saying a 357 is a 30-30, but with some careful reloading and testing, you can get close.

If you plan to start pushing the limits with the 357, I would suggest you purchase the Redding profile crimp die. It gives a nice roll crimp which I think is needed on hotter loads.

Are you also in the mining industry? Take into account this is coming from a MIN(ing)ENG(inee)R.

As always, that�s just my opinion and I could be wrong.


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I actually do work for an engineering company, and even so, I value you opinion ;-)
I have some Lil' gun on hand, and some Hornady 158 XTP's and will give your suggestion a try.
I've been using the Lee factory crimp die. Is there any advantage to the Redding die over the Lee?

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Originally Posted by castnblast
I need a bit of advice for loading a "little gun" for bear. I make several canoe/fly-in trips each year in the northern bush, and I like to take a small handy gun along in case of a food emergency or in case a nuisance black bear won't leave camp alone. We can't use handguns. I have bigger rifles and shotguns, but the rifle I want to bring is a Rossi Puma .357 mag. stainless carbine. This rifle will be almost never used, it's just insurance - and the stainless steel is a big advantage for low maintenance. I have no experience with the .357 on game, but figure I'm better off packing a little rifle that I will actually keep in camp rather than leaving heavier stuff at home. So, am I nuts? What do you recommend for ammo? So far I have been shooting various 158 gr. flat points. I do handload, and was thinking that the Hornady 180 gr. XTP's might be a good choice.



a safety iron for bears means stopping power up close and personal...
buy a cheap 12ga,make the barrel 20" and lose the plug.carry shot and slugs and yer covered for hunger and self defense.
My "bear blaster" cost $50,did the job for 9 yrs,and is ready to go today!

I don't have any experience with the .357 other than squeezing the trigger,but I do with bears in N Sk.and my suggestion is what served me well.
JMO



A shootin iron is a tool used for shootin
much like
a branding iron is a tool used for branding


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Interesting thread. Seems to me that few people here understand the dramatic difference between the performance of a 357 in a 4" handgun vs a carbine. A Carbine is where the round comes into it's own. I have to concure with the people that understand it's probably not the perfect round, but it's certainly not a dog when loaded with the proper ammo. Personally if that's what I was going to carry it would be with the Federal Premium 180 gr cast core bullets. Speed is only a partial part of the equation here but speed by itself doesn't result in penetration. A good bullet is more important when it comes to performance. I think I would prefer carrying a 44 Mag carbine or the 30-30 but I wouldn't feel unarmed as it were and I don't go into the bush with out a firearm. I'm hard pressed to think that People here believe that Phil Shoemaker believed that carrying a 357 would work for him but not for other people is really his point. Phil is a super guide and it certainly helps to understand bears but we are also talking grizzlys and black bears. If as you say the average black bear is under 200 # he's not superman or bullet proof.
Next there is a big difference in grizzlys and black bears in the way the approach people. Most black bear issues aren't high velocity attacks. They are more likely to be along the line of a bear that won't leave and is looking for an opportunity to take you down. No doubt in my mind I'd rather carry a 357 Mag Carbine with 180 grain Hard cast bullets than nothing at all. You must be a pretty assured woodsman.
Now if I had to go buy something to carry I'd go with a 44 Mag, 30-30 or 35 Rem but I'm glad to see you are taking something.


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Shot placement is always key.
I would not have a problem using a 357 Carbine
for what you want to do.
I would use a 180-200 grain cast lead of softpoint, Not hollowpoints. It would be about as good as a 30-30 and
that is a good black bear gun.

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