Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Barnes TSX Bullet Questions for JJHack & Others

Jim (and others), I have greatly appreciated your experienced-based comments on the Barnes TSX bullet and its performance on game. Good stuff.

Last summer, I decided to give TSX bullets a try in a couple of rifles and was pleasantly surprised at just how well those bullets shot. In both a .270 Winchester and a .300 Winchester Magnum, the standard Federal factory loadings with TSX bullets proved among the most accurate rounds I have ever tried in those rifles, which are both customs guns from Rifles Inc. In the fall, those two rifles and the TSX bullets accounted for dropped-on-the-spot one-shot kills on antelope and elk. Really good stuff.

So I�ve recently tried the Barnes TSX bullets in two more rifles, once again using Federal factory ammunition. The rifles are a Remington M700 Alaskan Ti in .300 WSM and a Dakota M76 Safari in .375 H&H. Once again, the accuracy with these bullets has proven to be exceptional.

What I have noticed, however, is that copper fowling in the barrels is noticeably more than with, say, Nosler Partitions. Cleaning out that fowling is also a bit more of a chore.

My questions for you have to do with that fowling.

Here�s a photo of the muzzle of my pet Dakota Safari .375 H&H after about 15 shots with the Barnes TSX bullets. Note the copper residue.



In all fairness, I have to point out that even with that fowling, accuracy is still superb. In fact, I have yet to see that the fowling adversely affects accuracy in any way. Here are the last two group I shot from the bench yesterday with minor scope adjusts between groups. This is with 300-grain TSX bullets and at 100 yards. There is certainly no problem with accuracy.



Question #1. Have you noticed such fowling in your pet rifles when using Barnes TSX bullets, and has it affected accuracy in any way?

The second set of questions have to do with barrel cleaning when using TSX bullets?

How often do you clean your barrels when shooting TSX bullets? Number of shots between minor cleanings and/or thorough bore scrubbings?

What cleaning rod, brushes, patches and cleaning solvents do you use when using Barnes TSX bullets?

What is your typical barrel-cleaning procedure when using Barnes TSX bullets?

Jim, I have been impressed by your detailed, experienced-based posts on serious hunting and serious hunting gear. The material and suggestions on your website are also excellent. I�m hoping that you (and others), can shed some experienced light on sensible bore cleaning when using Barnes� fabulous TSX bullets.

I too was concerned about this fouling early on with the original X bullets. With the original and even several versions after it was very bad and destructive to the accuracy.

With the TSX, I still have that copper look in my barrel. However..... I think it's simply discolored, more then actual fouling. This past season My 30/06 took a lot of game and I went through about 100 rounds of ammo. During all that time it was not cleaned even once. I have a stainless PacNor Barrel on that rifle. Near the end of the trip I was going to be hunting for myself, I wanted to double check the "zero" as it had been loaned out the whole time. I took the rifle to the range and fired two hole touching shots. This was after about 100 rounds and no cleaning.

My barrel discoloration is about identical to the photo you show here. When I get home, or when I do clean the rifle, I use a product called Wipe-out. It's an aerosol foaming copper solvent. Spray into the barrel from the chamber end with the tube that comes with the can. Leave over night, and wipe the barrel out. I've not had to do this more then two times to get a clean patch out without any blue color.

A lot has to do with the barrel, at least as much as with the bullets. Solid copper bullets don't squeeze through the rifling as easy as a softer lead core bullet does. Lead core bullets also have a bit different metalurgy to the jackets then the TSX. I have also found that if the barrel starts out spotless and only the TSX is used it will not foul nearly as easy as shooting mixed loads of TSX and jacketed bullets between cleanings. There seems to be ( in my experience) something that happens to the barrel when you shoot both jacketed bullets and TSX bullets without cleaning in between. Maybe just my imagination here.... I have no science, and not nearly enough data to state this as fact. Just something I seem to notice when doing it.

I don't think you will have accuracy problems with the discolored lands in your barrel. Just use the wipe-out when cleaning and a clean patch. I never use a copper or stainless brush... EVER. Use the whipe out until the patches are clean and you should be good to go.

that fouling may be a little heavier than is typical for the TSX but what you'll find if you try to clean it all out is that the rifle won't shoot for crap until it gets all laid back in there again.

I typically only clean when accuracy starts to degrade (100-150 rds for my worst barrel, never have for my best barrels) and plan on 10 or so "fouler" shots to get back to consistency again.

To clean it out I prefer the JB bore paste on a patch wrapped around a caliber-sized brush. 10-12 back-and-forth passes will do it (without stink or mess) followed by Break-Free.

Timberline,
I'm not one of the Africa hunting guys, but FWIW and in my experience with two of my rifles, I treated them with Ultra Bore Coat and the fouling was less and cleaned up much more quickly. I don't use Wipe-Out (maybe I should!) but 2-3 patches with Butch's Bore Shine takes the copper right out.
Marty

Timberline,
You probably find that the fouling will be less when you have shot your rifle enough to get the blueing out of the barrel. In the meantime if it's still shooting it isn't fouled.
I scrubbed the copper out of my .416 a couple days ago when the accuracy dropped off. It took somewhere between 7 and 800 rounds since the last time it was stripped to bare metal. That's on the high end even for me, but some of my varmint rifles have higher numbers.

Work up a good TSX load in your gun. Clean barrel. Shoot a cheaper identical weight bullet for practice. When you get ready to hunt clean your barrel again. Check rifle again with your TSX bullets. Go hunting.

The TSX's are great bullets but too costly for offhand target practice and plinking. You are not going to get much fouling on a hunt and what you get will not matter?

I use a good bore brush and Hoppes to get the powder fouling out and a good copper solvent like Sweets 7.62 on a patch for the copper fouling. I use a bore guide and repeat until I see very little blue on the patch. Do not leave Sweets in the bore more than 15 minutes.

What you are seeing is very typical for the Barnes X family. The TSX is better than the old X, but still leaves copper in the bore.

Sweets 7.62 or Barnes Copper solvent works. I use it after ever 100 rounds. No real worries about it.

My factory barrels will show a bit of copper wash look but no problems with accuracy or such. Barnes CR-10 works great to remove it when I feel like I need to, which is not very often. My custom barrels do not show this much. Probably due to smoother surfaces. Lapping or polishing the bore might help if this bugs you. I am used to the idea of a bit of a copper wash look to my barrel.

+1 on Wipe-out. It is the best product that I have used. I promise, I have used them all. It is sooo easy and does a great job.

Plus one on JJ's observation about not mixing bullet types when using Barnes bullets.

The "gilding metal" is harder than copper, if it leaves any fouling at all in the barrel (and every bullet does) then when you shoot your X's TSX's or TTSX's down the barrel, the minute gilding metal particles stuck to the barrel act to grab the softer copper off of the all-copper bullet.

Once I've got a Barnes load tuned to my rifles - I prefer not to allow my rifle to be "polluted" by having anything other than all-copper bullets shot through it.

Actually, I believe a lot has to do with the barrel when "mixing" shooting TSX's with other bullets. I've shot a lot of barrels that don't show any effect from shooting both gilding metal and TSX's. Many smoother custom barrels don't seem to mind the practice.

+1 on Wipe-Out and Ultra Bore Coat. If you UBC a barrel according to the directions, then an hour of Wipe-Out after 100 rounds will probably take out all the copper fouling--if any exists.

+2 on UBC and Wipe-Out!

My No.1 9.3x74R was one of the worst foulers I've ever owned(X bullets in particular). Didn't effect accuracy that I could tell, but a pain to clean.

Laid on some UBC, and the stuff has been unreal. Have about 400 rounds through it, and, as JB just said, after an 80-100 round session, all it takes is one application of Wipe-Out, and that's it. Great stuff.

Jeff

Note also where the "fouling" is; the lands, not the grooves.

Timberline, another vote for wipe out. I also expereinced exceptional accuracy with 140 grain TSX from my .270. My pattern is to clean the barrel after each trip to the range.

I let the wipe out sit for 30 minutes, remove with Deweys Rod and patch and go with wipe out one more time for another 30 minutes. I follow wipe out with Montana Extreme (liquid) on patches until the come out clean. I use a brush about every other time to the range. Accuracy with that particular rifle remains very good. I am on average cleaning after 15 to 20 rounds fired.

Which grain TSX worked well with your 300 Win Mag? Recently purchased one and would like to load for it. Anyone have have opinions for me on loading the 165, 168 or 180 grain in their 300 win mags?

I emailed this same query to Barnes Bullets, and received the following personal response from a gentleman in their customer service department:

�Thanks for the email. I have determined by using a bore scope in my guns that you may see some "stain" from the copper, which is a type of fowling, but it doesn't seem to effect groups in my guns. Some guns do have rougher bores and become more easily "fowled". Some of those guns need to be cleaned after about 20 rounds. Other guns don�t see any effect on accuracy until well over 100 rounds. I use Barnes CR-10 and a tight fitting patch when I give it a thorough cleaning. I may use a brush on my guns that need more aggressive action. I finish with a very light coat of oil.�

I�m going to try that first before leaping to Wipe-Out, although the reports on the effectiveness on Wipe-Out are much appreciated.


mwarren � In my Rifles Inc. Lightweight Strata in 270 Winchester, 130-grain Barnes TSXs shot beautifully. In my Rifles Inc. Classic in 300 Winchester Magnum it was 180-grain Barnes TSXs. In my Dakota Safari in 375 H&H, the 300-grain TSXs are the stars. All have been simple, off-the-shelf Federal factory ammunition.

My usual routine when using factory ammunition has been to buy three to four boxes of different ammo, from different manufacturers and with different bullets, and then test each for accuracy. But, I�m starting to believe that I should now just buy one box of Federal ammo with Barnes TSX bullets and test that first. My most recent results suggest that I may not need to go further!

Timberline, thank you for passing along the information.

Another vote for Wipeout. I used it this past weekend for the 1st time, and the stuff does an excellent job.