Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Win 94 .444 stocks

About a year ago I acquired a Winchester 94 AE .444 Marlin Timber Carbine -- 17.75" bbl, w/ ports. I like it so much that last month I bought a Winchester 94 AE .444 Black Shadow -- 20" bbl, no ports. Sort of idly comparing the two, I had a sudden revelation. The buttstock on the Timber Carbine has close to an inch more drop at heel than the Black Shadow. I'm guessing the TC was thought of as more of an "iron sights" rifle than the BS? Anyone else notice this? Are the buttstocks of the other 94 AE's designed for irons or scopes?

I have thought the same thing. I figured that Winchesters idea was similar to the introduction of the Marlinn .444 as the rifles look similar, except for stock material. Winchester made the same error as Marlin, the use of the barrel band instead of the forend cap. Around my local area no one liked the look of the Black Shadow. Every one thought the 24" barrel was interesting but no one liked the look of the rifle with that band. I believe everyone understood the idea that Winchester intended for them to use scope sights.
I have a Timber rifle and while I do not care for the ports the rifle is quick in the short ceader. You can walk up deer like quail and when the shooting is fast the Timber rifle with reciever sight or low power scope jumps to your shoulder.
With large meplat cast bullets the Winchester requires a slightly shorter cartridge OAL than the Marlin, this to make the turn into the magazine from the loading gate.
The long take up of the trigger is a small hinderance to fast shooting but you do adapt to it over time.
The muzzle pressure is very high on this rifle/cartridge combination. Using IMR or Hodgdon 4198 on a gray day leaves a four inch tonge of flame that is impressive.
None of my family of friends like this rifle. The muzzle blast is just too much for close hunting with friends. It is not a stand rifle.

You got the muzzle flash part right. It's pretty impressive on an overcast day, let alone at dawn or dusk. I'm actually planning to replace the barrel on that .444 with one in .356 Win that I picked up from Numrich. I'll keep the Black Shadow in .444, probably with a coat of teflon, for deer hunting on the islands where large furry brown critters hang out. Incidently, my Black Shadow has a 20" barrel, which appears to be factory. When I bought it over the 'net, I assumed it had a 24" tube, because that was all I had ever seen. I think I like it just fine with 4" less barrel. When the mounts come in, I'll top it with a 3X Leupold and start working up loads for it. I would like to find a wood pistol-grip stock with less drop at heel for the Timber Carbine, though. When it has become a .356, it will also wear a 3X Leupold.

muledeer,
GMTA! (great minds think alike!) Done it myself, a good change in my view. Still, I must confess the more I shoot, the more I prefer the Marlins, the Big Bore and it's Angle Eject is languishing on the rack, and she'll be up for sale I suspect, though I LOVE the 356Win cartridge, just want one in a Marlin.
Cheers,
R*2

I'll be interested in your mount selection. I have tried several different mounts and finaly settled on the Weaver bases with Millett Angle Lok rings. these withstand recoil without moving.
The big bore Winchesters seem to be drilled slightly off center to favor a right hand shooter. The Angle Lok rings help to bore sight the rifle for a left handed shooter and still keep the scope adjustments centered.
The draw back to this set up is that it is a little tall.
When bench testing different loads I insert a Brownells buttplate wedge under the recoil pad. This kiks the toe of the stock out about 3/4". This helps to raise the muzzle when the rifle is at your shoulder. It reduces felt recoil at the bench. The most promising loads are then reshot without the wedge. You can make them from balsa. For off hand shooting they tend to slow you down a little.
What I like about the Winchesters is the posotive feed. The Winchester will feed a blunt bullet a little more reliably than the Marlin. The Marlin on the other hand has a significantly better trigger assembly...

Have you considered the trigger job in a box from WWG? I got one for my Marlin95SS from Midway. Dropped it in and it was hard to believe I just did a trigger job! What a difference. I was tired of the gun before the part change. It had become trading fodder. Now it is second fiddle to Bessie Ann. The 99 in .358 that came from Muledeer. None of my accumulation of toys can match the power, minute of deer accuracy, and slick handling of the 99. Only a clip model in .375-.284 could perhaps beat it. But it still it wouldn't have the compact rotary mag. Thanks again Muledeer. RustyZipper

Thanks, RZ. I'm still tickled at how much you like that rifle. I feel like the matchmaker lady I saw on TV the other night -- except this was something important, as compared to matching starlets and yuppies up with each other.

Do they make those triggers for Win 94's? An improved trigger would be, well, a BIG improvement. By the way, did I mention I'm turning one of the 94 - .444's into a .356 Win? Kind of a tube-fed "Bessie Ann"...

I don't know about a trigger for the Win. Just the WWG trigger for a Marlin. I heard you were going for .356. Sounds like a good project. I thought about two possiblities for the 95SS. One was a 358-on a 45-70. The other is a reformed 350 Rem Mag in 375 or 416 for cast bullets only. The design being from James Gates. Can be found with a search on Shooters Forum. Sounds like a real killer. I like heavy for caliber flatnosed bullets. May have to get a nose punch for a Corbin die set in .458, .358, and .375 . That would allow me to make the meplat large on a jacketed bullet as well. We don't have a swaging forum here on 24 Hr do we? Too bad. I have to get further into swaging. Be careful because it is addictive, even as much as 99's! Muledeer be good or at least don't get caught! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Rusty Z