24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to need to expand my Camera collection to include a D-SLR. On another thread a couple of members here suggested that the best way to go is to decide on which lenses you want before deciding on a Camera body. At the moment all my camera's are Point and shoots, 2 Sony's with Zeiss lenses and 2 Cannon's an 850 and a G-9.

I don't have any lenses now that I'd want to use on a new high-quality D-SLR so I like to figure out who makes the best lenses at reasonable prices.

Utah-lefty mentioned that the Sony's are a little limited in lens numbers but the one he is testing now certainly looks like an excellent (if expensive) one. I believe that I also saw that Zeiss is making a couple of lenses for Sony camera's I'm sure they are good but definately not cheap. I've really enjoyed the Zeiss lensed Sony Point and shoot camera's I've had so far and have gotten pretty good pictures out of them. \

Canon's I guess are one of the more popular D-SLR's. I like the colors etc. I've gotten from my Cannon's but my G-9 in particular has some barrel distortion in the lens I find quite disappointing. It was supposed to be the top end of point and shoots but though I really like the features of the camera the distortion has somewhat soured me on it. I guess this makes me wonder about the quality of Cannon lenses though I'm sure the D-SLR lenses are a different kettle of fish altogether. Any comments pro or con on Cannon lenses? I liked the in hand feel of the Cannon's I looked at over the Sony and Nikon body's.

I haven't owned a Nikon camera before but the name of course is famous. A couple of the Nikon's appealed to me, the D90 and D300 especially. These were on the upper end of what I was thinking of spending but if they are worth it I'd prefer to buy something I really want and love even if it's more than I originally thought of spending.

As far as what I'll be shooting it's varied. I like to take pics of my kids but the Point and shoots are probably best for them. I like taking pics of different knives and guns and recently bought a lighting system to improve those. I also like to do outdoor and wildlife photography so I would like a good all around zoom lens in addition to a Macro for closeups.

Thanks for any and all advice. Some of what you guys have said have already given me some good things to think about...................................DJ


Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
GB2

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690
U
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
U
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690
You're correct in that you cannot infer much about a company's DLSRs by the lens quality of their P&Ss.

Much also depends on what "best lenses for reasonable prices" means.

The limited number of Zeiss lenses in the Sony line are fabulous but they start around $1200.
I suspect you'll find much the same in the very complete Canon and Nikon lines (ie: if you're not going to spend $1000+ per lens it doesn't mean much to talk lenses that cost twice that.)

spend a little time at Photozone.de, one of the best lens evaluation / test sites. It's not a complete listing but there are many Nikon and Canon lenses tested.

Compare the lenses you might actually buy rather than each company's super-duper-bestest one.



Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Thanks for the input UT. I'm a fan of Zeiss optics and might consider buying one or two of their lenses over time. I'm beginning to think that I'd almost rather have 1 really good lens to start with than a couple decent ones. I've got several Riflescopes and Binoculars in the price ranges you've mentioned so a couple camera lenses wouldn't be out of the question if I convince myself I can use thier capabilities.
I'll check out the website you mentioned.....................DJ


Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,004
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,004
The Canon G9 is commonly accepted as one of the better P&S cameras. However it is most assuredly not the best. At roughly $500 that should be expected. If you are after top quality IQ you are going to spend serious $ to get DSLR quality in a P&S. (price Leica eek) If you are not wanting to trade up to a DSLR then you may want to consider trying a Sigma DP1.

http://www.canogacamera.com/detail.aspx?ID=43905

As far a Canon goes I have had very good luck with their glass. Pro glass is expensive irrespective of brand and you can expect a 70-200 f2.8 lens from Canon, Nikon or Sony to run $1600-1700. So before you decide which is "best" (good luck getting any one to agree on that) I suggest trying to figure out which is "Best" for you. Sony and others suffer from lens availability and selection. Nikon or Canon are your best bets (IMO). I shot Nikon for years and was very happy. Now I shoot Canon and I'm very happy. You really need to decide which glass YOU want then see if it's available in the brand you favor. For example maybe the 70-200 f2.8 is a bit expensive for you so you would prefer a 70-200 f4 ($1,000 from Canon). Is this available from Sony or Nikon?
Still too expensive? Then you need to see if a similar focal length is available in a variable aperature lens in a standard series. Closer to $300 for a Canon 70-300 f4-5.6 IS.
This process can help simplify your brand choice.
As far as bodies go the D300 is a great camera but at $1500+ (body only) it should be. Today you can buy a Canon 40D for $960 and Canon includes software. (not included with Nikon)
I think it's best to be honest with yourself about your ability and how far you want to go with this hobby. A more expensive body will NOT make you a better photographer and before you start dropping the big bucks really ask yourself how much time and money you want to spend learning photoshop or other programs. It's a slippery slope and it gets expensive quickly.
IE; I easilly have $1200 invested in a single tripod and ball head. And that's not exactly top of the line stuff.
If you can, try to give us an idea of your budget and what focal length lenses you might want. With that info we can probably offer a little more specific advice. smile
Remember that Canon and Nikon offer standard glass and pro glass. The tricky caveat in your question is "reasonable price". That's very subjective.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,585
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,585
Definitely take the time and figure out the glass you want then decide on which brand will better suit you....I started with Pentax and the camera DSLR I had was great, they suffered in the lens department so I have gone with Canon because it better suits my style of shooting.


Rob
IC B2

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,030
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,030
I don't think you can go wrong, no matter what you choose; Nikon or Cannon. Both are top quality products, and the choice boils down to personal bias', and/or whether or not one brand possibly offers an oddball niche lens, that the other doesn't. Think ergonomics as well. Which camera body/lens feels best to you? Does using the controls feel natural to you?

There are so many things that are key to capturing a great image(composure, light, using good technique, etc..) that come way before what brand of gear you use. Kind of like bullet choice. You can use the best bullet made, but you still have to put it in the right place.

Jeff

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
First of all thanks to all of you for help and advice. Here are a few pics that you might critique that illustrate one of the issues I was having with my G9 as well as some that I feel are a little better.

After reading some of the lens reviews I think that I might be seeing something that's more common even among higher priced lenses i.e. Barrel Distortion at the extreme closeup of a zoom. Here's a pic of what was bothering me:


[Linked Image]

Notice how the pistol on top looks like it's banana shaped. This was taken from directly overhead with the zoom at it's closest. I didn't get as bad of distortion when I zoomed out and cropped the pictures. I guess what I didn't like is that I enjoy taking lots of close in pictures, not just of guns but of flowers etc. and I want something that works good closeup.

I've gotten a couple pictures that I liked pretty well and give me a little more hope for the camera though I realize I need to work a lot on my Photographic ability:

[Linked Image]

I probably should have taken some more shots here at different shutter speeds to get different looks of the water etc. but I kinda like that pic anyway.

Here's a picture of my sons B-day cake. I thought the camera did pretty well as far as details and getting good colors here:

[Linked Image]


So I guess the camera has good potential as a P.A.S and maybe I need to work in the middle of the zoom for Macro shots. I bought a set of lights to be able to improve the lighting etc. on them. But I still think that I might be able to appreciate the detail quality of a good D-SLR for close in shots especially.

Other critiques and/or idead for improvements are welcomed, I'm NOT an experienced photographer and want to learn more.


Again, thanks for the help and advice...........................................DJ


Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
I have number of cameras both 35 mm and Digital. My favorite brand is Nikon with my D-300 Digital and F3 35 mm being my favorite two. Nikon has the best lens and seems to be the choice of most professional photographers. Nikon would be my pick.


A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690
U
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
U
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690
one thing you'll find DJ is that all zooms are going to have some barrel distortion at the wide end, usually changing to pincushion distortion at the high end. this is more dramatic in the wider angle lenses as well as in the less expensive ones. the quality of the glass cannot completely repeal the laws of physics. smile

barrel distortion is typically negligible in well made prime (fixed fl) lens - and probably a macro at that.

if you're doing much shooting like in the pistols above, you'll need to invest in a good prime lens, IMO.



Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,004
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,004
Originally Posted by bea175
Nikon has the best lens and seems to be the choice of most professional photographers.


Just in good fun of course but boy do I ever dissagree with that. It really depends on what segment of professional photographers you poll. If you look at sports shooters watch a game this weekend. When you see the press box all of those white lenses are Canon. grin

I don't completly dissagree with Lefty but a standard zoom should be capable of getting a very useable close range shot without the excessive barrel distortion. You can push almost any piece of glass to an extreme to exploit some weak point. The downside of a DSLR compared to a P&S is cost and physical size. The upside is you can change glass to suit your shooting style.
Here's a shot from a lowly Canon EFS 18-55 kit lens taken with an XTi. Used this little piece of plastic sells for a whopping $75. (Zero PP!) wink

[Linked Image]


And another from a Canon S80 P&S. IIR zero PP.

[Linked Image]

IC B3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,477
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,477
Canon or Nikon, both are top quality, the choice of pros, and offer a great variety of lenses to choose from. Second, the camera bodies of their more higher-end models are made for the heavy use that pros put them to. If you're serious, that's the way I'd go.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,909
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,909
Define "best".

Best for the money?

Absolute best optics?

Best for what purpose? There are some specialty lenses that only certain manufactureres make.

Best selection?

Like binoculars or riflescopes, you get what you pay for.

Canon has the best selection, and makes some very superior pro-quality lenses. Check out those white lenses on the sidelines of football games...all Canon. Canon also makes some specialty lenses that are unavailable elsewhere. I'm a Canon user, and I like what Canon has done in the photography area.

That being said, of course many companies make comparable quality lenses.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,909
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,909
Originally Posted by bea175
I have number of cameras both 35 mm and Digital. My favorite brand is Nikon with my D-300 Digital and F3 35 mm being my favorite two. Nikon has the best lens and seems to be the choice of most professional photographers. Nikon would be my pick.


In the film age, most pros used Nikon, but Canon dominates that market now, and in fact was overtaking Nikon even in the film age.

It took Nikon many years, Until 2008, to get a full frame DSLR to market. Meantime, Canon captured the pro market with the full frame cameras EOS 1 and 5 D series.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 383
VTi Offline
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by bea175
I have number of cameras both 35 mm and Digital. My favorite brand is Nikon with my D-300 Digital and F3 35 mm being my favorite two. Nikon has the best lens and seems to be the choice of most professional photographers. Nikon would be my pick.


Sorry to bring this thread to the top, as I've been away for a while. I just have to comment that this is the most misguided, misinformed post I think I've ever read here.

First - "D300" and "most professional photographers" do not even belong on the same page, or in the same paragraph.

Second - Canon has the best glass, period. I'd love it to be the other way around, as I used to shoot strictly Nikon, but it's just the way it is, and I had to switch. Now, of course Nikon has some very nice lenses, but the entire collection as a whole just cannot compare. There is ONE Nikon glass that's currently superior to the equivalent Canon offering and that's the 14-24/2.8. I've contemplated even buying a D3 JUST for use with this lens, but I can't bring myself to do it. The 1Ds3 is just too nice for me to revert to a D3.

Just my $.02

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,645
BW Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,645
Should of bought a Nikon. wink

[Linked Image]


Brian

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,263
Uh, BeeDub, that is one heck of a nice pic and all, but VTi's pics are peerless.

In all honesty, I think he'd do the same whether he was shooting Canon or Nikon (or Olympus, or Sony, yada, yada). wink

Methinks he do wear the crown!



"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,004
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,004
It still amazes me how sharp the IQ can be from the XTi. wink

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 383
VTi Offline
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by BW
Should of bought a Nikon. wink

[Linked Image]


LOL, should have bought a Canon wink wink wink

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

By the way. I tried the new Nikons, only because I wanted to try the new 14-24/2.8. They (D3 and D700) were returned the next day. No comparison to a 1DsIII.

Originally Posted by RickBin
Uh, BeeDub, that is one heck of a nice pic and all, but VTi's pics are peerless.

In all honesty, I think he'd do the same whether he was shooting Canon or Nikon (or Olympus, or Sony, yada, yada). wink

Methinks he do wear the crown!



Thanks Ric! That's a heck of a nice compliment. laugh

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,645
BW Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,645
I agree Rick.


Brian

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,640
jpb Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,640
A fellow professor here spends more on his photography hobby than some people earn in a year.

He used to use Nikon exclusively (Hasselblad before that) and he still says that anybody will be perfectly satisfied with Nikon lenses... unless they try a Canon L series lens. smile

He has made the transition and uses Canon equipment now (and only L series lenses). I am sure that he will dump the entire Canon system and switch if somebody else pulls into the lead regarding lens quality. He keeps checking to see if Canon has lost the lead, but, according to him, so far... not.

Note that these L series lenses are Canon's top of the line ones and I do not think that their consumer lenses are better than Nikon or anybody else.

Finally, VTi obviously has a great eye for composition and considerable expertise in post-processing so he could use just about any system and make most of us look bad by comparison! However, if you have a really good monitor you will see that his pictures usually are technically a notch better too. I have noticed that a lot of his pictures are Canon L series lenses...

John

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
661 members (1234, 163bc, 06hunter59, 17Fan, 09wingates, 74 invisible), 2,710 guests, and 1,214 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,605
Posts18,398,367
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.136s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9102 MB (Peak: 1.0730 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 13:54:29 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS