Home Forums Gear Photography Who makes the best series of Lenses for D-SLR's?........................

I'm still finding the Camera and lens situations somewhat bewildering.
Even if the Cannon L series lenses are the best out there, are they going to be as good in a non-full frame sensor less expensive DSLR like I'd be buying?
I think I'm leaning towards a Nikon D300 or a Cannon 50d. I've heard some negatives about the 50d such as needed a better lens than the normal kits come with etc. But maybe it would be good with an "L" series lens or two. Also think maybe a D300 with a 28-200 VR for all around and maybe a 50 or 60mm macro prime lens for Knives, Guns etc.. Still lots to think about but I still have a little time before cash is in hand to buy whatever I decide on.............................DJ

Full disclosure: I am a rank amateur.

I figured I'd invest in the lenses and swap camera bodies when it seemed a big jump in technology merited it.

You may not have a FF sensor now, but it's great to have the lenses for when you do make the jump.

I own three L lenses, all zooms. Happy with them all.

Needed something for indoor volleyball work, and Canon zooms max out at F2.8, so I jumped on a Canon 85mm F1.8. It's a non-L, cost me $350, and, I gotta say, the pics are sharp, sharp, sharp!

Now, lots of guys will tell you that that lens is too long on a crop, and it very well might be, but since all I have is a crop (40D), I'm good with it. Don't know any better.

I think I may get into another prime or two before it's all over, and when I'm ready fr a FF body, I'll be golden.

Were I starting over, if I could swing it, I'd do a Canon 24-105 or 24-70 and a 40D. You can rock with that for quite a while. One decision I made for myself is to make sure to buy all EF lenses, so they'll work on a FF if and when I decide to make the jump.

But like I said, I'm a rank newb. Take it for what it's worth.

rb

Rick makes some very good points above.

To answer your question regarding lens quality and crop sensors... Yes, actually the high quality L Canon lenses are even more important on a crop sensor due to pixel density. Since the APS-C (1.6x) sensors are much smaller area, in order to have the same quantity of pixels, they must be smaller and more densely packed on the sensor. Since they are so small and dense (compared to a FF sensor), they will show and expose flaws in cheaper glass much more easily than a larger sensor will. This is the sole reason you've heard the 50D demands better glass, as 15mpx on a crop sensor leave super small pixels, at high density. On the other hand, FF sensors are more demanding on glass at the outer edges, since this typically where lower quality glass shows much weakness. Vignetting (light falloff in the corners), and corner/edge softness will be much more apparent on a FF sensor. THis is kind of one "advantage" to a 1.6x, is that it crops out the edges of the image circle, which are usually the weak areas of any lens.

So basically what I'm saying is that ANY camera/sensor will benefit from better glass. Furthermore, glass is really 90% the contributor of great image quality, the SLR body is much less important.

As Rick said above, SLR bodies come and go very frequently. So really, it's far more advantageous to invest first in a quality kit of lenses, then upgrade the body as necessary.

What ever camp you choose, I'd definitely stay clear of the super range zooms, i.e. the 28-200mm or anything similar. It is very well known that quality zooms are never more than 3x, 4x tops, meaning the "long" end is 3x the "wide" end. Example is the 24-70L is a "3x" zoom, 24-105L is a "4x". The 28-200 is around a 7x zoom. Now, this may be convenient sometimes, but will absolutely NOT lend itself to the best image quality, not a chance. If this were the case, there would be no reason for anyone to own a whole stable of lenses. We'd just buy a "super zoom" and be done with it. Canon makes a 28-350mm or something like that, and it's just putrid. Stick with prime lenses and/or 3x-4x zooms.

My recommendation to you, for the uses you specified and just a great all around tool... a good used Canon 40D ($600-700), or a used 5D ($1300-1400). Get a nice "L" zoom for general work, and maybe a nice fast prime lens for lower light work, 50/1.4 or 85/1.8 like Rick. These Canon primes are very sharp, and rather cheap compared to the L zoom. Your camera system will be rather inexpensive, and I guarantee you that it will be capable of professional image quality. Many, many, many images from the 5D have been sold in super high end galleries, and magazine publications. The 5D is also a staple camera for a lot of wedding photographers, which says a lot because it's one of the most demanding situations a pro photographer can face, and for them the resulting quality of the images can not and will not be compromised in any way.

Very general info here. If you have anything more in depth you'd like to discuss, go ahead and ask away. That's what we're here for. Well, that and to find a good deal on a nice Gene Ingram blade

Rob

Again thanks for all the responses.

Rob (VTI) I've seen advertised new 5D bodies in the $1350-$1400 range in places like here:

http://www.prestigecamera.com/viewproduct.aspx?id=%20%20%203642705

and here:

http://www.broadwayphoto.com/cat/DigitalCameras/812240/EOS-5D/

I haven't called them to see if these are real deals, i.e. in stock ready to ship with all the necessary chargers etc.. But they seem tempting.

Do you think that an older full frame camera like the 5d would be better than a newer 50d with more "bells and Whistles", more fps and better LED? Or maybe even buy a "starter" DSLR like a XSi(450) and but the "L" series lenses and upgrade the body later.

I'm still deciding on exactly how much I'm willing to spend. I'm thinking $2Kish is where I want to start out at but I'm sure I'll be spending a lot more over the long haul. I've have quite a bit invested in other glass such as rifle scopes, spotters etc. and in those have found myself less pleased with less than the better grades of glass.

Do you think that a Eos 5d with say a 24-105 F4.0L would be good to start with or would I be better off with a 28-70 f/2.8L to start with and then add maybe a 70-200 f/2.8L later? How important would the faster lens be starting out?

What do you think of starting out with an inexpensive SLR like an XSi and then maybe buying something even better than the 5d later next year?

BTW, thanks for posting your pics earlier, they were so good they almost made my eyes pop!.............................DJ

DJ.

I think you're on the right track. Man, I'm not sure what I'd do regarding those choices of cameras. I personally would not get the 50D in your position. It will not offer anything that you'll benefit from over a nice used 40D, and for twice the cost. Now, the 5D is a whole other class of camera. Many people still feel it produces the best, cleanest image quality of any camera Canon makes. I've owned a pair of them, and the IQ is stunning. It's kind of a very basic camera regarding features, AF, etc... except that it houses one of the best sensors Canon has ever offered. There really will be a big difference over the XSi, or even 40/50D.
Please don't buy from those retailers mentioned above. There is a scam of some sort going on there. B&h, Calumet Photo, or Amazon.com along with a few others are the only way to go. They have fantastic return policies, should you be unhappy with your purchase for any reason. But, you'll spend much more money than buying a nice used camera. 5D's can be had used for around $1300 from reputable sellers right now, since the new 5DII is released. Some people are trying to dump theirs to have the latest and greatest, but the 5D is no less capable than it was yesterday, now that there's a new model released.

This is the way I'd go if I were you, away from the XSi. The interface of the 40D and 5D is MUCH different than the XTi/XSi... and much more like the Canon pro cameras. They also feel a lot more substantial/robust in hand than the entry level cameras. The Rebel series really feels like a toy compared to them.

The 5D + 24-105/4L-IS is a now classic combo that has been producing stunning files since their introduction. There's NO WAY you'd be disappointed with this kit.

I would say for general all around use, the f/4 with IS would probably be a better option for you than the f/2.8 without IS. This is a tough call since for different situations, each has advantages and disadvantages. The good thing is you really can't go wrong. Canon L glass holds it's value so good it's scary. It's almost like putting your money in a savings account. If you ever do have/want to sell the lens, you'll have no problem garnering 90% of what you paid. Plus you'll still have all the great images you took with the lens during the period which you owned it. The 24-70/2.8 is a big, heavy lens for it's focal length, and may even surprise you it's so massive. The 24-105/4 is a bit smaller, and lighter (1/2lb I believe), which will make a difference if you plan to carry your camera around a bit.

So, my recommendation is a 5D/24-105 if you want to stretch out your budget a bit. If you want to stick to right around the $2k you said, go with the 40D. Don't even add more lenses right now. Get this gear, and see where you think you need more versatility. You may have no need for a fast prime, you might be better served by a longer zoom, 70-200??? The 5D (or 40D) plus 24-105 will get your feet wet, be super versatile, and you can add from there later. Then we'll talk tripods, flashes, etc...

That's my opinion.

If you get a 5D and a 24-105, I will definitely be jealous, for what it's worth.

rb

Damn, now I'm looking for a 5d body. You guys suck.

Oof. Water gets deep quick around here.




It's a GREAT time to pick up an original 5D!! If I weren't doing something meaningless with the money already, like remodeling a bathroom, I'd be all over one.

Outside looking in sucks!

(Get it, BeeDub!).

rb

Well see how the winter drilling season pans out. I still need a 400mm L lens too.

If that's the 100-400, I love mine. Puts out images that make even me look good every once in a while.

Before I spring for a prime 400L though, I'm buying a quad!

rb

Well I've got it narrowed down a good bit. The recommendations here helped lean me in Canon's direction but today I got a no-brainer reason to choose one of the Canon's. One of my good buddies shoots a Canon and has several lenses including several L's that I'm basically free to use whenever I wish too - Wow.
I'm going to make a list of the Lenses he has and I'll buy complimentary ones to his collection so we can share back and forth.

I looked at a used 5d today. It had a battery grip included, seemed in decent shape with some wear around the flash shoe on top and a little on the bottom of the battery grip. It comes with a 30 day warranty for $1599. I compared it side by side with a 50d. I asked the Salesperson (professional camera store so maybe a little knowledgeable) her opinion on New 50d vs Used 5d and she said she would lean towards new since there's no way exactly to tell how good the internal mechanicals were on the used camera.
How frequently to Camera's have mechanical problems? Do you think that there would be much of a worry buying a used Camera. If something did break how much does a typical repair cost and how long might it take? Does $1599 with a Battery grip sound within reason? Thanks for all the input...................DJ

Well, I guess that would be difficult to address. Was there mention of how many actuations were on the shutter? This is typically the only "wearing" part of the camera body. They are good to 200,000 - 300,000 clicks. Even then, a shutter replacement last time I had it done was around $200.

This leads to really one of the MAIN reasons most professionals, and serious amateurs choose Canon. That's customer service and repairs. Canon is absolutely fantastic in this regard, and it's very well documented. Any repair, warranty or otherwise, are performed usually with lightning speed. I had to send in my 1DmkIII last year for the sub-mirror adjustment. It was kind of a "recall", as I thought the camera was perfect before. I sent it anyway, because they extended the 1yr warranty from the date of the repair, so that made it worth it. It seemed exactly the same after return, perfect. They emailed me a UPS prepaid OVERNIGHT shipping slip, I sent it out on a Monday, and received it back and "repaired" by Thursday that same week. I couldn't believe it. When I got the shutter replaced on a previous camera, I was without the camera 9 total days, including the weekend.

So, in other words, Canon is VERY good in this regard. You never have to feel like you're the only darn person in the country that owns that camera, like I used to feel with Nikon. I know they (Nikon) are making strides to provide better customer service, but they are no where near there yet. At least this is what I'm told from my 2 Nikon buddy's who borrow my Canon Telephoto's and 1D3's whenever they go to Yellowstone NP

It's your call. The 50D will be a great camera too, no doubt about it. Plus, and this I can EASILY understand, there's just something about opening some gear BRAND NEW, and you're the only owner. That feeling will (obviously) not be there buying used. Either will be as much camera as you can handle, though different. Both will have advantages and disadvantages, but there's no way you could go wrong with either.

The only feature the 50D has that's not on the 5D which I think is quite beneficial is the Micro Adjust AF feature. This is on my Pro cameras, and I love it with the fast glass that I live for. Super handy. The new LCD is AMAZING!!!, but that doesn't translate to image quality of course.

Let us know how you proceed.

ROb

dj there is a way of knowing how many clicks the camera has had. A pro dealer should probably know how to do this and can tell you the # of uses. I think a 5D is rated about 150000 clicks. And unless a proshooter has owned the camera no one else really uses them that much. Wear on top of a 5D near the flash attachment shoe is very common. I had it almost the first day on my 5D.

The 5D should be coming down in price very rapidly now, since the new model is about to hit the shelves.

Remember, any camera system revolves around the lenses, and the Canon L series are among the best. Further, as technology gets cheaper, I think less than FF cameras will become obsolete for serious photography.

That seems a bit steep. You may be paying a bit much for a 30 day warranty. $1300 is about the norm right now but Canon body prices are dropping fast. Here's a link to a new one on FM and I'd suggest searching the buy-sell forum there. This one is NIB for $1125. No grip. A used grip should run about $100.
IMO the the 50D is the wrong choice to start. Right now for some one getting started it's almost a no brainer for a 40D at under $900 new unless you are dying to go full frame. The 5DMKII should be out in December. Around $2700.
FWIW there are still NIB 5D's available and camera prices are plummeting with the poor economy. If you want a dealer new 5D you might want to hang on a month. If you can find a NIB body they should be under 2k. It's a bit unknown because if the 5DMKII gets a reception like the new 50D then the 5D may hold value longer.


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/707748


Not that I'm a big B+H fan but here's a new one in kit form. IIR that's a $900 lens so the 5D is basicly $1600 new.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484816-REG/Canon_0296B113_EOS_5D_Digital_Camera.html#includes

Wow that 5d with the 24-105 is a good deal. I went and checked out the lenses that my buddy has that I pretty much have free access to to use whenever I like:

EFs 17-85
EF 100 f/2.8 USM
EF 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM
EF 24-105 f/4L Is USM
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS

Whichever body I start with I'll probably just start out the the 24-105 f/4L and go from there. The first lens I buy will likely be a lower range zoom to complement what we already have and can trade back and forth.
It's sure nice to have good freinds!.............................DJ

Ya! Call Doug!

rb

Doug was out of 5d's and the 5dmkII's aren't in yet................DJ

The old 5D is a heckuva buy these days, and getting better.

Just so you know, I had a 24-105 that I liked so much that when I lost it in Vegas last year (don't ask), I bought another. I considered the 24-70 F2.8 for a while, but I just couldn't get over how much I liked that 24-105 as my all-around lens. It's what sits on the camera 90% of the time.

My experience is very limited, especially compared to some of the guys on this thread, but I gotta say that a lens that throws a rookie more than an occasional bone image-wise is not a bad thing. I like the IS a LOT!

DJ,
I have the 40D and several Canon lenses, A few months ago I
Bought a EF70-200mmUSM L IS from Adordama (Doug didn't have it)
And it is simply that best lens I have ever used.
$969.95 if my memory serves me right.
I have Nikons also but I think the lens selection from Canon
will keep me running Canon stuff from now on.
I talked to a professional Photographer and he said that anything besides a Canon or Nikon would be a waste of money.
Charlie

I ended up going with a Canon Eos 50d. I got a deal on it that made it not cost much more than a 40 would have. I figured that since it has basically the same interface as the 5d MK II I would have a good upgrade path when they come out without having to relearn anything.
At the moment I have the 24-105l on the body and have a EF 100 macro and a 100-400L to experiment with thanks to my good buddy.

My next decision will be on which lens to add to the range that we have available to us. Maybe a 100-200 f2.8l to have a faster zoom but more likely a wider angle zoom to better cover the low end. Eventually I'll get a 24-105l of my own.

Thanks for all the help, now I've got a lot of learning to do!........................DJ