Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Why no short action thumpers?

I'm curious about the 12.04 lilmufu and the 12.04 bibamufu. Anyone know anything about these? Experience?

Weight - real thumpers have a substantial push rearward. Longer actions are a start on having enough mass to make firing the weapon; enjoyable? or, at least not harmful.

As it is you can have an eight pound 458 Win Mag and if you learn your manual of arms with it you will have the bolt all the way to the rear before you stop moving in that direction.

The other classic short action thumper is of course the double rifle. In fact no bolt action will ever come close to its compact design in terms of length. And, it is true even with the longest cartridges used in shoulder fired arms.

I don't mind a short action. I would rather have a short action with a heavy barrel and weights in the stock. That keeps the length down and the balance right.

Was the 358 Win ever made in the M70?

I saw this today and think I'll use my spare wssm action to build something like that!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116218115

I want one.

Yes. Elmer Keith wrote about it. His wife used one.

Here's the short answer without all the "armchair" psychobabble...

Most large calibers are for shooting large animals(for the most part) and most people including me, want the biggest, baddest, meanest caliber and cartridge we can handle, to make sure the job gets done right.

You don't get those conditions in a short action.

You need a long action with a case large enought to pack enought powder in it to handle the largest diameter bullet and heaviest usable weigth you can get...that was well understood in times past, but seems to have gotten lost in todays fantasy world of 'netbabble.

Since that niche is already been filled... for the most part...the "now" generation is going the other way...trying to use a tack hammer to drive a spike. Besides there are way to many people that whine over the recoil of stoutly loaded '06, why would anyone want to go a large step farther?

BUT...I don't see anything wrong at all with using a short action with a fat case and the largest caliber and bullet weight to harvest your game...as long as you understand that BIGGER is always BETTER when it comes to pranging those beasties that bite back and if you want to wax prophetic or pathetic, as you wish, do it around the campfire over a stiff Whisky or on the 'net where you're safe...or let someone else be the guinea pig. Hahahahahahaha

I would I would pick a large caliber in a WSW case on a short action, in a light rifle if I were sticking deer and/or it's cousins, but I want a 505 Gibbs or larger if something that thinks I'm just a snack or a bothersome fly to swat, is on the dinner menu.

And it's the best balanced M70 Fwt ever made, IMHO.

I seriously doubt anyone will be handicapped to the point of ineptitude by the bolt throw of a 375 Ruger,or the length and size of the rifle for that matter.Back in the Pleistocene Era, a 338 Win Mag was considered a "short" magnum.

The .350 Remington Magnum is one of the few short cartridges I like. The other 2 are the .243 & the .308 Winchester. Couldn't the 450 Marlin be chambered in a bolt gun?

I have the 1st 9.53 (375-cal) Hellcat Lazzeroni made and it's a great round --- matches and exceeds normal 375 H&H ballistics in a .308 length case.

The Maverick is the same case necked up to .416 and I don't know if it will get 2400fps with the 400gr bullet or not --- probably fairly close.

I know John has messed around with the larger ones but I think there was trouble getting them to headspace properly.... the abbreviations are --- Big Bad Mother xxxx and Little Mother xxxx each based on a different size case.

I've been on my last safari and my Hellcat is for sale. 300gr Nosler Partition at 2550+ fps well under moa for 3 shots.

The WSM Win 70 S/A make a great platform for the 350RM case. Mine feeds 350RM shells like its riding on roller bearings:

Win 70 350RM Video

Very little mods needed - just a shortened L/A magnum follower & Williams extractor.

MtnHtr

450 Marlin...it'll fit wherever a WSM fits.....off the shelf dies and readily available brass.....sounds like an easy setup to get into.

I don't think they will hold enough powder to really 'thump'.
What short rouund will shoot a 300gr plus bullet 2400+fps? Now,if you want to just feel the recoil of a MULE,try a Remmy in .350 Mag or a Winchester m70FW in .358....most of that comes from too lite a rifle or ill-fitting stock.

Well...here is an exerpt from the thread on another forum that started me thinking about all this:

"416WSM

Has anyone heard of or worked with a 416 WSM? This would simply be a 300 WSM necked up to .416 with a slight reduction in case length to account for the shortening effect of the neck expansion. COL could go to 3.1" to match current magazine length in the Winchester short actions.

The case would hold 66 grains of water with a 300 gr Hawk Bullet, delivering over 2700 fps and 5000 FPE at 65,000 psi. AA 2230 would do the trick, without compression.

A deep seated 400 gr Hornady or the like would still leave 52.5 water grains of usable capacity, delivering 2230 fps and 4425 FPE.

Best of all, these velocities are all readily achievable from a 20 inch bbl...."

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=4031

I do not have anyway to confirm the numbers being given here (maybe someone here has a good balistics program?) but it sure did get me thinkin...it would be a fun project anyway, and made me wonder if a factory version might someday be a possibility (although I would most likley prefer a .375 or even .358 version). If these figures are correct it sure does warrent consideration in my book. Food for thought eh?

Here is a link to some ballistics and load data for the .358WSM or 350WSM or 35 Sambar which ever you prefer...looks pretty good as well. Anyway, makes for good conversation....

http://www.35cal.com/ruger77_350wsm.html

What about a pump in 45-70?

I guess I have passed thru the phase of wildcats.I no longer have the time,and after a couple 'bad'gunsmithing projects,I now stick to factory built rifles.I see the prices raising on bullets,powder and brass.Who knows what's coming next from our new Tribal leader....I already own a couple of 'metric calibers' that require searches now.I enjoy handloading to the rifle,not reloading to fill a bucket....Good luck in your search....

If bore size defines "Thumper", then there are the pump and lever action rifles in the 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45 LC pistol cartridges. But, if you mean "thumper" as a term to indicate a rifle for large game, then other reasons for longer actions include slimmer magazines and higher capacity magazines, because the rounds are not as fat.

Is there a psycho babble conection between fat hunters and fat cartridges?

I am really disturbed by the people who can't cycle a bolt action properly, yet think they have the ability to hunt dangerous game. We have a group looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

Now thats funny!!!...for me I just like pondering things. Do I have a need for a short action big/dangerous game rifle? Not at all. I have a 9.3x62, 300 win mag, 2 45-70's 2 30-06's a 35 Whelen and a 270wsm. The 270wsm is a MRC1999 in a Mcmlillan stock. Nice rifle just not crazy about the caliber so I started day dreamin. If Ruger would come out with the Alaskan in 375 Ruger for lefties id own one. My main rifles are the 30-06's and the 9.3...the rest are just for fun. If someone twisted my arm I would love to play with a wsm wildcat but thats just because I can...great thread, thanks all.