Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Gunsmithing gone bad: Rifle held hostage

Fellow Campers...

I'm seeking some insight and perhaps some unique and as yet untried method in hopes of retrieving my wayward rifle.

Reader's Digest version: Had a rifle built over the last year and half or so for a (successful) dangerous game hunt. For many reasons I didn't get the rifle until about 3 weeks prior to my departure (an entirely different but related story).

Part of the build included putting NECG sights on the rifle. Regulation for 400 gr. TSX at 50 yards resulted in this:





Time was short--So, I set the zero as it is, set zero on the scope and off I went to Africa. I had no time to do otherwise.

Upon my return I had some very urgent family matters to attend to and so the issue with the rifle took a back seat for about 6 weeks.

After sending the rifle back to the excellent gunsmith (Mark Bansner) who assembled the rifle (he got the barreled action and fit the sights/stock only), it was determined that the barrel was faulty. The sights are aligned within 0.001" of the barrel centerline.

I then began the REAL adventure about which I now write. After numerous unanswered phone calls--unanswered e-mails to the barrel maker (Dan Pedersen of "Classic Barrel Works" in Prescott, AZ) I had to send a letter to Mr. Pederson via USPS restricted delivery (confirms that only a specified person or authorized agent will receive a piece of mail.)

In the letter I explained what you've read here, enclosed the photos that you see and asked for some remedy.

It seemed to work (at first) and I was thankful and relieved that he responded within a day of getting the letter. He agreed to look at the rifle so I sent it to him. After a few days he called me and said that yes, the barrel did indeed appear to be faulty and the he'd do whatever it took to remedy the situation. That was in July.

Since then, I've had only three conversations with him. Always the same story--"just spun the barrel--just getting around to asking Mark Bansner about what they used to coat their rifles--call you by the end of the week". All BS.

I called Mark and asked him if Pederson had EVER called anyone in the shop regarding what they'd found when they inspected it OR anything about how they coat their rifles. NOBODY in the shop has ever gotten a call from Mr. Pederson.

It's now been almost two months since I've had any contact with Mr. Pederson. He refuses to take calls or has an answering service that is full and won't (literally) accept messages.

I've had a friend who went to gunsmithing school where Mr. Pederson is sometimes employed call a classmate who resides in the area of Mr. Pederson's shop and physically walk in to have him ask WTFO? (politely).

No response.

Last week I was able (finally) to get his voice mail--and left a message explaining that I felt I was running out of options.

I have now run into the proverbial brick wall.

He has my rifle and doesn't appear to want to either repair or return it.

***UPDATED ACTION***

My next course of action was to contact the state attorney general and file a complaint with them (they handle consumer complaint/fraud in Arizona) but they are unlikely to be effective and are S L O W in their response time.

I've contacted his boss at the Yavapai Junior College where he teaches (part time) and laid out the story for him. Haven't heard anything there but I just sent him a letter today so I don't expect to for a while.

I have his FFL # (he's also a gun dealer) so I also filed a complaint with BATFE. Finally, doing a search on the EZ Check (BATFE) I found that his FFL expires on Monday and along with notifying them of my complaint I have a feeling he'll be (at the very least) audited by the Feds. Hope his logs are up to snuff...

I'm seriously wondering whether or not someone could consider the rifle as having been stolen. It may seem a bit overblown at first blush, but the guy does have my rifle and does not seem inclined AT ALL to return it. He's just "disappeared"...

Elevating his bad behavior to a crime doesn't give me ANY pleasure whatsoever but I really am stuck.

At the same time I don't WANT to create any more problems and oh, by the way, I'd like first and foremost to get my rifle fixed and get it back. I think the first wish is unrealistic, so I may just have to lick my wounds and take this as a VERY expensive "life lesson"...and just get it back in one piece.

So, I present this dilemma for your thoughtful consideration and replies. Take a minute and put yourself in the situation--and perhaps I can find a way to resolve this successfully.

Although it's painfully obvious, I'd also strongly recommend that you avoid contracting for the services of Mr. Pederson or buying his barrels.

(This post been submitted in various appropriate forums--Accurate Reloading, etc.)

Personally i don't think there is a whole lot you can do. You can keep trying to contact him or you can sue him if it is worth the cost to you. You can also report his dealing to the Better Business Bureau in the town or county he does business in and if he is a FFL Dealer you can file a complaint with the ATF. Good luck on you dilemma. Guys like this give everyone a bad name in the gunsmith business. I bet this guy also voted for Obama.

If your state has a 'small claims' court, I would suggest you begin the process. At least you can get back the cost of the barrel, install etc., and then Mark B. can start over with a different barrel maker.. Usually, small claims is rather cheap to use.. I think it's well under a C-note here in TAX HELL WISCONSIN. ...which is about as useless as peeing upwind in a class 4 hurricane.. Worth a try... Oh, so true.. I cringe whenver I hear of these stories because it gives others pause when attempting a rifle build with an unknown/unseen builder....

Tough call. I'm not sure why your rifle was ever shipped to you from Bansner's shop exhibiting that kind of problem, so I partially blame him. I understand you needed the rifle for a hunt.

Moving on to Mr. Pederson. I would not want to take legal action if possible. I'm not exactly sure how long he has been in possession of your rifle but I would compare it his projected wait time for a new barrel. I feel like that gives him reasonable time to manufacture, fit, chamber, install sights, and finish your barreled action if he makes you a priority as a matter of customer service.

If he refuses to interact with you I would try contacting Yavapai, requesting they have him consider contacting you. Sometimes a little peer pressure can be good for you. I don't know where you live but I would consider driving/flying to the shop myself before takeing legal action. If that is not an option for you then you have been backed into a corner and may have to contact the Arizona AG.

Good luck, I've had frustrating experiences with HCR(twice, a personal gun then customer's gun) but was finally able to resolve it peacably.

Jambo,
Years ago I became friends with a local gunsmith. He was particularly skilled at modifying and building custom M1911 pistols. He often would take up to a year to complete work on a pistol. This gentleman was in his 60s, retired, and worked when he felt like it and on whatever gun he felt like working on at that particular moment. For about the last ten years I have occasionally sent firearms to a gunsmith in another state. He does great work but is slow as Christmas and has at times taken a year to return my gun. I know this does not provide you with any advice nor insight into a resolution to your problem. I just thought I would share with you that it seems, to me at least, that often one will have to wait an extremely long time for gunsmithing work to be completed. I think perhaps this is especially true for an out of state customer. In any event good luck to you with whatever you choose to do.

Gents,

Thanks for the replies. 7mmfreak, thanks for the suggestion about contacting Yavapai--I'm already planning on contacting them on Monday--this confirms that it may be one of many alternatives.

As for the time/method patience involved in building a custom rifle--I'm well aware. I felt lucky to get mine done in 18 months. Just not pleased with the results.

And the point of this isn't the time involved anyway. If he said "hey, I'm happy to do it but I won't get to it for 6 months"...then so be it. Yes, I know that the 6 months can then turn into 9, 12, 18 and so on. Seems to be more common than not.

My point is that he's outright lied to me about his progress, has not followed up on his commitment to "get back to me by the end of the week", etc.

Case in point. He told me the barrel was done and would talk to Bansner about their coating process so as to return the rifle in the same finish that it arrived. That was in August. As of two weeks ago, neither Mark or anyone in his shop has heard anything EVER from Mr. Pederson. I provided him with telephone numbers and names in my letter (by the way) if he had any questions at all about what they'd done to insure that the sights were indeed properly mounted.

...and yes, it's slightly disappointing that Bansner's didn't catch it there...but the outcome would be the same nevertheless. The barrel is bad and needs to be replaced.

I understand why Mr. Pederson may be hesitant/reluctant to complete this work--although he promised me that he would.

Consider this: Replacing the barrel requires that it be matched exactly to the existing contour (turned down slightly-post production), removal and replacement of the front and rear sights, barrel band, refinishing the barreled/sighted receiver and then refitting it in Bansner's stock. It's a lot of work.

Hard to prioritize for him it seems--so I'm having to do it for him. Yet, his refusal to engage at all in this process (for the last 3 months +/- ) is what ticks me off and frustrates the hell out of me.

He's not entirely stupid--just incredibly irresponsible and negligent. Again it gives me NO pleasure to air this publicly but it's part of my strategy--hoping that somehow, someway the word will filter down to him that this is now in the public domain and his reputation is at stake. From what I know of this business...reputation equals business.

I guess some may be so busy in their success that they forget how they got there. Sadly, this isn't the first story of this sort and won't be the last.

I've come to hate the entire process and will likely NEVER go the full custom rifle route again...ever. If I was a bench rest shooter maybe, but I'm not. I'm a hunter.

Cheers and thanks again for the forum and allowing some room to vent.

Maybe I missed it but what does Mark Bansner have to say about the whole deal? Seems he should be pressuring Pederson or at least try to alleviate the piss poor barrel issue.

I'm not a 'smith but I would be trying to bring some higher level of satisfaction to the customer. If this means using another make of barrel then so be it.

I know I won't ever recommend a Pederson barrel to anyone after reading this thread.

MtnHtr

If you really want this issue in the public domain,and want to put some teeth into it,file a report with
it will stay there even after it is resolved and is good incentive for the other party to make things right.
Advise him AFTER you've filed a report that you've done so and that you will amend the report after resolution of the issue to reflect his willingness to maintain good customer service.
Read their main page and follow their rules,it's FREE!


good luck.

Bansner only put the sights on, coated it and fit the stock.

The barrel was already on it when he got it. As I wrote earlier, they might have known something was up when they put this sights on but only zero'd the rifle with the scope. BTW--the sights are aligned within 0.001" on the barrel.

Thank GOD,Ive only had 1 bad experience with a gunsmith that didn't live up to his end in building a custom rifle for me.I've had EXTREMELY GOOD LUCK with these Gunsmiths,Randy Selby,DOC'S Gun Shop and my latest is also now a FRIEND.Karl at Kampfeld Custom.He makes the building of a rifle a complete pleasure AND THE FINISH PRODUCT IS 2ND TO NONE.
I hope you get this situation fixed to your satisfaction.I would request my rifle back and have 1 of the many FINE barrel companies out their make a new barrel for me.

I bet Pac Nor could provide better results...............

MtnHtr

Agree with the kudos for Karl Feldkamp. He did the bolt handle on this rifle. Fine work and quick turn-around. Just wish I'd found him 2 years ago...

Would like to have the rifle back in any case. The lesson is $$$ painful $$$ in that I'll be out of the cost of a new barrel, new custom contour, refitting the sights, barrel bands and coating. I figure it's about $1000-1500 MORE than I have into it already.

As for ripoffreport.com, thanks for the tip. I'll follow through for sure. As for letting him know about it...that's the point. I can't contact the guy. Over the last five months I may have gotten his voice mail 3 times. The rest of the time the system tells you the box is full and try another number. No number given...just try somewhere else, i.e., "please go away".

BTW...Just got done contacting/sending letters to his boss at the Junior College where he teaches, AZ Attorney General and BATFE (it turns out his FFL expires on Monday and he might be in for a very rude surprise).

Again I take NO pleasure in any of this. I'm reasonable and will do whatever it takes to get this right. That reads both ways.

Cheers to all.

At this point, I'd either go in person or authorize a FFL holder to act as my agent and demand the rifle back. Sue him for monies paid and what it will cost to be put right.

Even if you win, you may never collect on the judgment, but you'll have the rifle back.

Hunting season is on. I bet he's in no rush to quit his paying jobs to rectify his mistake.

Good luck

I've used, or rather my gunsmith used, the services of Dan Pederson with good results. I purchased a package .458 WM Mauser kit from Gun Broker that upon assembly had problems with the action feeding that could not be repaired. I had already made inletting modifications to the stock and Timney trigger, so I ended up keeping those pieces from the kit. The diagnosis and return process ate up a lot of the time I had alotted for the project before hunting season. I approached my smith who found another action and ordered a barrel from Mr. Pederson. The barrel arrived within a week (standard profile and twist, nothing special). I've been pleased with his services.

I know this doesn't help your situation any, but your situation might be an isolated incident.

I own rentals and have delt with a lot of creeps in my life. Here is my advise. File in small claims court. It does not cost much. Claim the highest amount of $ allowed, usually 5k maybe more in your state. This fella will be served papers by the Sherrif notifiying him when to appear in court. Odds are he won't want to appear and you will get your gun back or he won't appear and you automatically win a judgement against him. I have found judgements to be pretty worthless so I turn the judgement over to collections. They usually want 50% but will negotiate. Eventually he will have to pay to clear his credit record. He won't be given any cedit with this judgement hanging over his head. Do it and good luck. Ken

I suggest you file the report at RR and fax a copy to him like they suggest.You may also want to fax a copy to the same folks you sent letters to.He'll find out one way or another about RR and will have to deal with it to maintain his rep.

I bet he eats babies and doesnt go to church on Sunday as well!!!

Jambo, have you considered asking someone in his vicinity to stop by his shop and pick the rifle up?

This story reminds me of a taxidermist I once took a white tail head and cape for mounting. Guy went out of business, moved out of state and I never heard from him again.

Hope you fare better, and I have to think you will. A judgement and charges against him should shake loose your rifle. Sorry to hear of such stories.

You can see a more indepth discussion and the other side of the story here: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/385109679

Thanks, Malm!

My dad always told me that when you've only heard one side of a story, you've always got a lop-sided story........

Ted