Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Birchwood Casey Stock sheen vs. rottenstone/pumic?

Just wondering how the Birchwood Casey stock sheen compares to using rottenstone/pumice to rub out a TruOil finish? I've used pumice and rottenstone on felt with water but does using TruOil or linseed oil as a carrier alter the outcome? Cand you wipe all the oil off as you rub down? Seems like it would try to dry as your rub the stock? I tend to like a satin or slightly duller finish, just don't want swirl marks. Will Stock Sheen work OK? Also what about Brownell's rubbing compounds?
Any help appreciated
Jed

Use mineral oil with rottenstone, NOT BLO or Tru-Oil!

I have never used the BC stock sheen. Rottenstone is cheap and does an outstanding job.

As always, thanks Sitka. Your sage advice is much appreciated. Anyone else with any Stock sheen or Brownells rubbing compound experience?

I've wondered about Stock Sheen myself. I don't have a junker to experiment on so I could use someone elses experienced opinion.

Tried the Stock Sheen last night. Gave a pretty even finish, though duller than my limited experience with rottenstone. Pretty easy to use, just rub on and wipe off. Feels like very fine pumice in some type liquid carrier, maybe a soft liquid wax as it does dry where you can buff it off. Overall, pretty satisified.

Thanks, I may be using it soon.

Where do you buy rottenstone?

I need to add final coats to a Tru-oil finish, and want to level the sheen after the pores are finally filled.

Thanks,

Curly

I bought mine at a local Woodcraft store. Brownells has it as well.

Curly
Take your time... Rottenstone should only be used after the finish has had a lot of time to fully cure.

I suspect stock sheen products like the Birchwood Casey mentioned elsewhere are really more wax than anything else. They are designed to cover for the folks they know will rush things.
art

Art,

I have used the Tru-Oil and am happy with the overall look. The problem I have is that the grain on the wood is still showing pores?

I have put approx 8-10 very thin coats on. The first few were diluted with thinner, and the remainder done at full strength.

Following the directions, I used steel wool between coats. I like the look, but want to fill the pores. There are areas on the stock that the pores are filled, and other areas that are not, depending on the grain structure.

I have not put any Tru-Oil on the gun in 3-4 months. I plan on hunting with it in 2 weeks, and then pulling the stock to complete the work.

Am I missing the boat? Do I need to keep adding layers of the Tru-Oil and then use the rotten stone when I am finished?

I know in prior posts, you recommend ~2 months of full cure before using the rottenstone.

I have been leary about getting to much Tru-oil on, and ruining the wood.

Where do I go from here?

Thanks,

Curly

Curly
Without a smooth base the oil will continue to shrink forever... It is simply the nature of the beast. Get it dead level and in a year or so the pores will be telegraphing again. That is one o fthe reasons we use the epoxy base coat. It fills the pores and seals the wood completely.

Rottenstone is the very last step... That and waxing the stock.

In future do not thin finish unless it is absolutely required. The advantages are non-existant and the disadvantages great... Wood is a filter and the solvent just goes beyond the finish and does nothing to increase penetration (the usual claim).
art

Yep, I believed in the usual claim for the thinning.

I looked at the stock very close last night, and there are only very minor pores showing, mainly on the butt stock.

These pores have been there since I completed the project. I just did not address the issue.

If I understand whay you're saying, I will get the finish dead level over the winter, and by next year the pores will be back?

If I need to put a coat of Tru-oil on every year I am okay with that, I am just trying to understand if there is a maintenance that is needed. Should I have used a different base coat? Should I consider a different coat now.

I plan on finishing with additional applications of Tru-Oil over the winter after next weeks hunt. The dry air seems to cure it well.

I will say the dent removal was much easier than expected. There were some very minor dents that may have occcurred while the rifle was on the bench. Amazing how nicely they steamed right out.

A little oil, and the finish matched perfectly.

thanks again for the help,

Curly

Curly
Oil polymerizes (links with other molecules) and does so very slowly. It shrinks while it does it for several reasons. In oil molecule terms pores are huge potholes. The oil links up and forms a crossing pattern of molecules.

On the main surfaces the oil forms a thin layer and just draws tight when it continues to cross link and shrink. But on the pothole pores the depth of the finish is far greater than across the regular surfaces and it shrinks back into the holes.

For hundreds of years abrasives have been used to create dust to fill the pores and create a non-shrinking matrix for the oil to cure on, in and around. The problem? It muddies the finish and reduces light penetration and reflection. That kills luster and translucence.

Silica dust is added to finish (oil or shellac usually) to produce a sealer and pore filler. It is not as muddy as sanding dust because the silica is glossier, but it substitutes luster for a clear view of the wood. Under a little magnification the loss of clarity is obvious.

Making a sample piece with intended finishes will show you a tremendous amount in a big hurry about your finish on your wood... The important thing. Many old-time stock makers have laughed at me for suggesting there is anything wrong with a slurry-filled finsih. A number have "showed me the error of my ways by making a sample piece." None has been anything but shocked at finding how wrong he was.

I use epoxy as a base coat because it is tough and hard and "clear enough" for my purposes. It "yellows" wood quite a bit and I would like that fixed for woods like maples.

There really is not much you can do at this point to fix the issue. Oil will dry and shrink and if it matters you will add more every few years and relevel it. It will never stop shrinking...
art

Art,
Thank you, excellent explaination. I did not know about the polymerizing, and the continual shrinking in the pores.

Common sense that the slurry would dull the finish. I would guess the slurry coating the entire stock would also diminish the subtle colors of the wood.

The continual shrinking I am okay with. I was concerned I did something wrong in the beginning. At this point, pulling the stock every year or two and giving it a fresh coat is not a big deal.

I usually pull an action at the end of every season to make sure an oil/preservative is on the underside of the metals.

This is also important to me because I live 100 yds from the Barnegat Bay, and in the summer months, the windows are open, and the air is full of salt. My safe has one of the Damp Rid containers in it 365 a year.

One last question, you mention yellowing. All of the products I have used, BLO, and Tru-Oil for the initial finishing, and Bore Butter, and another Orange Oil based wax for the top coats all have a yellow color or tint.
Is there something I can use for maintenance, or future application when the stock is ready for a fresh coat that is clear, or will not dry/harden yellow?

thanks again,

Curly

PS: When I finally get this thing done, I will post some pictures. It does not look like a custom rifle, more like a well preserved Pre-64, just left handed. Between the wood, and all the metal work from Mark Penrod, I am very proud of it.

Sitka, What is the name of your epoxy base coat? Thanks, Ken

Ken
I have used many different brands of slow-curing epoxy without any real differences coming out. G-1 and G-2 from Industrial Formulators happen to be the two I have been using of late. The key is the very slow cure...

You should be able to find a fuller description of how I do it with a search here. I have written it up a number of times.
art

Sitka Deer:

Could you post some links to how you do it?

I am not proficient with the search function.

At the top of the Campfire forum is a huge list of repeat request items. There is a lot of very good stuff in there and several folks went to geat lengths to dig it up. I suggest a run through there for some threads that have risen to the top...

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=52634#Post52634
art