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rick_g Offline OP
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I recently picked up a Marlin 1895 LTD in 45-70. In looking at the reloading manuals, I noticed that the recommended load for the Marlin in 45-70 does not exceed 28,000 cup. Yet, the loads for the 450 Marlin run around 40,000 cup. I was wondering if there is any difference in the actions of the 450 and the 45-70, and if not, shouldn't I be able to reload the 45-70 to the same pressure levels as the 450? I found some reloading data for the 45-70 at one of the powder manufacturers web site that stated that the loads were for the Ruger no.1 and didn't exceed 35,000 cup. Shouldn't the action of the 1895 45-70 be able to handle this pressure just the same as the 450 Marlin or the 444 Marlin? Any info will be appreciated.

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It is well established that the safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 action is 40,000 CUP. There are some very knowledgable shooters that believe it is somewhat over that. In essentially the same action the 444 Marlin has a SAAMI pressure specification of 42,000 PSI and 44,000 CUP and the 450 Marlin is rated at 43,500 PSI. There are differences due to pressure testing method and case head cross sectional area, but the 45-70 exerts roughly equivalent bolt thrust at 40,000 CUP as the 444 Marlin does at 44,000 CUP and the 450 Marlin at 43,500 PSI.


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rick_g Offline OP
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Thanks for the info, that's kind of what I figured. I will have to try some stouter loads some time to see what kind of recoil those hotter loads have. I think I'll stick with the 35,000 psi loads and see how the rifle handles them. I have a chrony on the way, and that should be interesting to see what my loads are actually doing.

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Rick_g PMC has a factory load called 4570ha+p+350grfn that is shown at 37000 cup at velocity of 2025,hear it's a winner! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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One facet of this discussion that doesn't get talked about quite as much as I'd like to see is the relative strength of 45-70 brass vs. 450 brass. I stay well within published data for 45-70 in the 1895 Marlin, and I find myself having to check my brass regularly with a paper clip. I don't get a LOT of incipient head separations - just enough to make the check mandatory. - Kind of like hotrodding 30-30 for a contender.

I've always suspected this is one of the problems the 450 was designed to address. Again, this is only my speculation. SW


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I have never seen any indication of incipient case head separation in the 45-70. And I have loaded some of the first Winchester 45-70 brass I bought in 1977 100 times. Split case mouths/necks are the usually the failure in 45-70 brass I experience and that condition is reduced by annealing when necessary. It is my guess that 45-70 brass will last for just as many loadings as 450 Marlin brass as they are about the same thickness in the neck. Hence, I think the only problem the 450 Marlin was designed to address was creating a 45 caliber lever gun rifle cartridge that equaled the potential of the 45-70 in the Marlin lever gun yet could not be chambered in a 45-70 or a standard magnum.


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rick_g Offline OP
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I usually check my brass for head case seperation everytime I reload. I usually stay within the recommended loads in the manuals, but with the Marlin action, I should be able to load to a higher pressure level than the 28,000. I imagine that the level is for the older 45-70 lever rifles, and is done to prevent law suits. I will have to try the PMC ammo, and see how it shoots before loading up any appreciable quantity of the higher pressure reloads. I'm sure that the 8 pound 1895 with a steel buttplate will give a pretty good thump to the shoulder.

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George Weber of Hodgdon powder ran 45-70 Winchester brass to 70,000 without any signs of failure and they just fell out of the test barrel.So with Winchester being the thinnest of the 45-70 brass,the rifle will probably fail before the brass does.

Just my opinion.Jayco.

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This is another opinion on this topic: http://www.real-guns.com/Commentary/comar52.htm


Regards,

OldWolf
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rick_g Offline OP
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Thanks for the post. After reading the article, I think that my decision to stay with the 35,000 psi loads is the right decision. According to the article, the Marlin should be able to handle up to 40,000 psi safely. I think the recoil of the 35,000 psi loads will be enough to satisfy my kick craving.

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