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Good stuff Bob, now just think of how good your Nodak would of been if you'd of chambered it in my beloved 7 Mashburn Super... grin

Dober

(ps, I'll try to call you this weekend so we can cuss/discuss life)


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Mule Deer could well be right about the Sub Moa, it's just that I am pretty darn frugile by nature (my Dad always said that we were poor imigrant Polish people... grin). Add to that I've not found a present day Van that wouldn't shoot sub moa right from the box is why I say go with the cheaper, I mean more cost efficient model...grin

I just fell off the wagon last night and ordered in a Wby Van Yote Special in '250 so hopefully I don't find one that will shoot over moa! I'm thinking that yote prices will treat me better this winter than real estate prices... cry

Later boyz!

Dober


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Dober: Call when U can! Am going to the range to mess with a 7mm today. smile




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I'll try later today or tomorrow during the games, shoot straight!

Dober


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Haven't shot the Coopers, though word is they are excellent (-.5 moa guaranteed). I don't like the shape of the stock, for one thing - too deep through the forearm. Not to shot with the safety, a la M700; add to that the abominable detachable magazine, and it's "no thanks" for me in a hunting rifle. The varmint calibers are another thing, however.


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Mark,

You are probably right about general Vanguard accuracy; that's been my experience as well. My suggestion of the Sub-MOA is based on two factors: That they select more-accurate-than-average Vanguards, then put them in a better stock.

There's nothing woring with the standard Vanguard synthetic stock, but nothing exceptional about it either. It's just an injection-molded stock, like 95% of syn-stocked factory rifles have these days. These are a lot better than they used to be, and some of these rifles show exceptional accuracy. It's just that the Sub-MOA stock is better!

Put a better stock on an accuracy-selected barreled action, and the odds go up for a real shooter....


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And, if they keep it out of my pawz they've got an even better chance that it'll shoot... grin

Dober


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Mule Deer,

You're right about the stock- it is precisely the reason I bought my Vanguard Sub-MOA, in .270 WSM. The option would have been to buy a run of the mill Vanguard, and then spend another $500 to over $600 to buy a McMillan or similar stock, have it bedded, etc., running the total cost of the Vanguard to around a grand.

I bought mine for a few bucks over $700, and feel it is a great value at that price.

The only other expenditure I have made, other than Talley LW's and a Leupold scope, was to buy a Timney trigger for $65. The trigger makes this rifle a terrific shooter, in addition it adds a three-position safety to the action.

The Sub-MOA guarantee was the real deal- the rifle was shot at the factory with 150 gr. Winchester Power Point ammo, and a .5" test target. It shoots .5 to .75", three shot, 100 yd. groups with this load, plus two handloads I've developed for it- 130 gr. and 150 gr. Nosler Partitions.


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They are indeed pretty much a steal.

To tell the truth, with the factory rifles we have these days, I am becoming convinced that unless we want something radically different than what we can buy off the rack (such as a wildcat caliber, or say a .257 Weatherby Magnum in a 6.5 pound rifle) then why buy custom? Unless, of course, we just want to.


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Well want and need real or imagined are two different things. I had a Dakota 76 in 270 I bought it used and paid less that what some Mid price Bino's are going for, sold it for North of 4K and got a Blaser R-93. It shot fine, for a hunting rifle and that was what it was, I also had a Dakota Single shot in 280, could never get it to shoot as well as it should have, plenty accurate for hunting, I sold it, to a fellow that wanted it and made a little on the deal. They are over priced for what you get, buy a used one if you can find one at a good price, I don't know anything about Cooper so I will not comment on it, As for Weatherby Vanguards, people like them, I had one in 270 back in 1974 for a while, shot fine. I have more trigger time with the Mark V Weatherby's German, then Japanese, then U.S. made in Saco Maine. All shot well for what they were hunting rifles chambered for hunting cartridges, 300, 7mm and 340 Weatherby Mags. That 7mm WM was of Japanese Made, and that rifle shot well better than well it would turn it 1.5 inch groups or better at 200 yards. It was not a light gun, I had a big Ziess 2.5 x 10 on it 30 mm tube. Used it mostly for crop damage deer shooting, Worked great, It was one of those deals, I bought the rifle for a song and put 1500 + dollars worth of glass on it, Sold the scope, when I down sided my gun collection, and that rifle went to a fellow that was a lot smarter than me, he put a fixed 6x leupold on it, 42 mm I think and been shooting deer and elk with it ever since. Problem with the Mark V's they are not light weight guns, my favorite Sako 75 in 338 is lighter that that 7mm. Buy what you what to shoot, and can afford and never mind what anybody says about it. I myself would love an Echol's done over M-70 in Say 300 H+H, JB you shot one you know why I just think about it to much. Never mind the cost, if you have ask as the saying goes.

Last edited by gmsemel; 01/03/09.

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Anton Chekhov


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Great replies. Excellent site. Thanks very much. As I stated I have one WB ultra light now that shoots well. I had a mark V in .300Wby a few years ago that I couldnt get to shoot right. I even had some accurizing work done. It shot Ok but I am pretty picky I guess.

I really dont need any more guns but hey- that's what floats our boats I guess. Always intigued by something new and different. There is a store close to here that has a couple Mato's, Coopers, WB and dakotas. I will check it out and see what catches my fancy. The Dakots really intrique me.

I understand about Dan Cooper and his Obama support. I am a lifelong conservative and have never missed voting in any election-local included. I also support with my wallet. However there was an interesting article in the paper today about the Forest Service plan to allow Plum Creek Timber Co. to pave 900 miles of logging roads in western Montana before Jan. 20 administration change. They want to carve the area up for "McMansions". Obama opposes it.

Here is a quote by him "At a time when Montana's sportsmen are finding it increasingly hard to access lands, it is outrageous that the Bush administration would exacerbate the problem by encouraging prime hunting and fishing lands to be carved up and closed off".

This is why Cooper supports him I believe. I didnt intend for this to become political when I posted but I felt an obligation to answer a couple posts. Back to guns now hopefully.

Thanks again from a card carrying memeber of the Republican party.


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blackdogsrule-do you live in Montana and or where at?

Thx
Dober


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Dober,

I live in The Commonwealth of Virginia and am seeing my birth state, beautiful West Virginia, carved up into 20 acre (or less) "mountain retreats" so the article on the parcilization of Montana strikes home. Did not mean to get political but I can understand Dan Cooper's thinking.

Mark Brown


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Cool, was just being my natural curious self.

Dober


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Originally Posted by Bighorn
buy a Timney trigger for $65. The trigger makes this rifle a terrific shooter, in addition it adds a three-position safety to the action.


how does the timney add a 3 position safety feature?? Thanks, 163bc

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Sam,

Look on the Timney website. It looks like the 3 position safety is like a Remington not a Winchester horizontal safety.


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I may have to rethink a weatherby!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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For $800 it sure is worth a try before you drop big bucks on a Dakota or Empire like I'm thinking of doing.


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My Dakota 76 is one of my favorite rifles. I believe only it and the Cooper are machined after hardening. I could sell mine for more than I paid for it but never will. I am always looking for others. When I purchased a LH model 70 safari I had discussed the options with Norma Allen, I wish I had taken her advice and gone with the Dakota.

I would like to go on record commending Dan Cooper for his support of Obama as well as the entire state of Montana. Not only do I like the country in Montana but respect the residents of that state for being independent thinkers with a fierce sense of what is right. This individual thinking and the open ranges need to be preserved. Just look at what has already happened on the front range and in Wyoming next time you question his choice.

I will consider the Cooper 52 when they put a traditional hinged floor plate on them, I believe there are plans to do this.


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Mr. Cooper does not reside in Montana. Dan lives in Ohio.

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