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Originally Posted by eblues
Excellent point. Don't know if there's a clear-cut answer for that one.


There never is.

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Sounds like an ambulance chaser to me, or one of those nasty class action lawyers that advertises on TV.


Sam......

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Look, another internet feeding frenzy! Check it out--this gal's an attorney so is responsible for the decline and fall of the republic. That's a Mossberg, so must be a total POS/salvation for the less fortunate shooters out there. And anyone who doesn't agree with me can just line up against that wall over there.

An inquiry was made, perhaps poorly, coupled with a self-serving statement. No reason to beat each other up about it, is there?


"It's what they know that's just not so", often attributed to Mark Twain but that's just not so either
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Originally Posted by ChuckKY
I've not had any failures with any Remingtons, My only problem has been with the small pin that holds the boltface on my savage and the way it is nearly drilled in two to allow the firing pin to pass thru. Not over engineered by any standard, just stating facts as I have seen them in the rifles I have owned.The retaining pin is huge weak link in camming open a stuck case. In doing so it can and has broke in the past and may not allow proper lug engagement. These aren't stories I've read about or heard 2nd. hand,just facts I've seen on a particular rifle I own.
Not internet law written in stone, just personal information I've actually seen. Actually Remington bolts aren't "brazed on" , they are silver soldered at around 90000# tensile strengh(close to the strengh of the carbon steel used in the bolt body), whereas brazing equates to 45000-60000# maximum.
Originally Posted by Savage_99
Originally Posted by ChuckKY
.......
Now on I will stick to machined bolt lugs design-Remington, Winchester,Ruger, Cooper ......


The Remmy 700/721 type bolts are not "machined bolt lugs design"!

Those Remmy bolt bodies are three piece with the bolt handle brazed on and yes the bolt lug section brazed on! Look at your Remmy bolt body a half inch behind the lugs and you will see a groove there where the bolt body is brazed onto the bolt lugs!

mad


If this is the case, I will never fire a Savage rifle...or a Mossberg centerfire.

Am I being too cautious?


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Originally Posted by AggieDog
Originally Posted by dogzapper


Let's see, a troll who identifies himself as "Attorney Holt" appears on the Campfire. He has a total of TWO posts.

This thread alone has had 1588 hits and 78 responses.

Methinks that this is a "tempest in a teapot."

Personally, I believe that Attorney Holt is not what he says he is; heck, he cannot even spell. He is without a doubt a bored kid who likes to turn gunny folks upon each other. We need none of that.

Steve



Steve, I found her on another site. She is definately seeking information on Mossberg's ATR rifle. As someone who has been to court on several occasion's involving significant damages, my point is simple, we dont know her from ADAM, if Mossberg is at faut the process will take care of itself. But, I get pretty testy with some of the Campfire's "Hollyer than Thou" croud who forget just how important an impact Mossberg has made over the years providing low cost firearms frankly, to those who otherwise would never have been able to have been introduced to the sport of hunting,etc, shooting. Up until this stupid post by
miss rich bitch (probably a democrat) lawyer, I dont recall the world getting blown up by Mossberg. I am very disappointed in so many people ready to trass Mossberg..... We all know their fit and finish is terrible, but they do offer a low cost product.

I'd like little miss rich bitch to put me on the stand so I can trash her knowledge of Mossberg.



I personaly know of this happening last year to the son of a man that I went to school with. The Mossbergs are a bad design and dangerous to boot IMHO and should never have been sold to the public the way that they are set up.



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Originally Posted by AggieDog


Sent a pm, who's BUCK?



Yeah, I'm wondering who Buck is also so make it public, please.

Thanks


The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.


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Started a thread earlier on the Campfire about Buck McNeely.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2698330/page/0/fpart/1

I have made several posts about him recently and apologize for not being clear.
art


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It would be tragic if someone who could only afford a cheap rifle put his confidence in the manufacturer's design and ability and got hurt as a result.

I don't have the answer, but if there is a problem, the rifles should be recalled, and if it takes action from this attorney to force the recall and to bring this problem out so that everyone is aware of the danger when they purchase or fire one of these rifles, then, I can't fault her for doing that.

I had a Buick automobile once, that would just go dead for no reason, even while you were going down the road keeping up with traffic. I took it back to the dealer many times, and also spent a lot of my own money on it, trying to get it fixed.

Several years later, I read that Buick was aware of the problem, refused to recall the cars with that particular engine, and that there had been two deaths because of it. This was after Buick stopped manufacturing that particular engine.

I wish I could have found an attorney like her, when I was having the problem with my car.

Remember the problems with a certain brand of tires Ford was putting on the Ford Explorer? There were several deaths because of these tires, and I read that some attorneys knew about the defective tires, and had filed lawsuits, but had refused to make the knowledge public because they felt if people found out about it and quit buying the tires, it would hurt their chances of recovering damages.

Anyone remember the low-numbered Springfields?

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Looks like they're suing Walmart, Olin, and Mossberg. Walmart for selling the gun,and Olin for making the ammo? I guess they'll see what sticks.

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SOP to ensure the case stays in court... Let the court weed out the liability holders...


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And not members of the campfire...............

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Point taken, some Campfire members do seem to want to absolve Mossberg of all guilt before they go to court.

That is what you meant, isn't it? wink


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here's the only story I found on Google about this "defect"....the plaintiffs story doesn't make a lot of sense...the gun misfired while he was handing it to his son, and also exploded for good measure.

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2008/10/25/news/news03.txt

so I guess we assume it fired unintentionally while he was handing the loaded weapon to his son, and in addition to firing itself, it also self-destructed?

Firearms are subject to manufacturing defects like any other product, but US made guns are pretty heavily inspected so that gross defects affecting safety very very rarely make it to the consumer. Dangerously defective designs in the marketplace are even rarer....self-reporting and recalls stop most of those very quickly.

The vast majority of product liability claims against firearms manufacturers....other than the anti-gunner's bogus design claims.....are operator error....nearly always involving violation of Rule 1. Blow up cases are almost invariably gross overloads, wrong caliber ammo, or barrel obstructions.

I have represented S&W, Colt, Rem. and currently USRAC over the years, and have yet to see a valid design defect claim.

But unless Attorney Holt is in the process of committing malpractice, if he has an April 2009 trial date, he must already have an expert and an expert report, so why he would be trolling a firearms site asking semi-literate questions is a bit of a mystery, no?

If the design is proven defective, then it should be recalled and the victims compensated. Based on the limited sample of Attorney Holt's abilities, a betting man would have to go with Mossberg on this one.


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That story you link is a different case and a different attorney. Somewhere in this thread someone already verified that his attorney was in Florida (I think) and not Idaho.

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I know its a different case, its probably the hand case Attorney Holt refers to.

What I said is that's the only one a quick google search turned up, which indicates there ain't exactly an epidemic of injuries arising out of this design. Which was my point.

Once you get into the facts of these cases you almost always find something squirrelly that explains the blow up. If the design was really defective, there would be a lot more claims, and a recall.


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Well, I've seen it on several other boards besides this one a good while ago. I don't really think it would be a design defect if everything worked perfectly but they got some bad steel in the pins.

I figure the attorney is either trolling for business or gauging the reaction of gun owners and doing a little jury research.

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pretty tough venire for him wink


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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Point taken, some Campfire members do seem to want to absolve Mossberg of all guilt before they go to court.

That is what you meant, isn't it? wink


No it isnt what I meant. Look, if Mossberg is guilty, then they will be liable as it should be. My point was it sounds pretty fishy to me that a rifle blows up while handing it to someone else. What I meant was real simple: you are innnocent until proven guilty. What I also meant was, I dont care what your bias, or anyone else's bias is against Mossberg, that gun company met a need to provide low cost weapons to customers. Due to their efforts, and others like them, read Stevens, Savage, etc, many new shooters and hunters have entered our sport. The defense of our sport is best served when all Americans, or Canadians, etc, can afford a rifle, shotgun, or 22 rifle, etc, not just the rich or middle class.

Does that explain it well enough for your satisfaction???

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I've had the "privelege" of being and working around lawyers for 31 years. Some of them and their obvious greed and disdain for common sense, has left me upset with the whole bunch. Let's face it, some are theives with a license. But!!!! If Mossberg put out a defective product that gets people seriously hurt then let the process go forward so the record becomes public and the whole world can see for themselves whether or not Mossberg is selling quality or is it selling junk? And, if this makes them produce a better product, who's the looser? kwg


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Year before last the son of a man that I went to school with had a Moosberg bolt hit him in the face when he fired it at a Deer with factory loads (not reloads, the was/is not a reloader). The bolt lugs are pinned to the bolt body and the pin broke when the bolt closed and the lugs did not fully close. When he fired the rifle the lugs opend and the bolt him in the face. He survived and had to have reconsructive surgery. The doctor that performed the surgery said that he was the second victim that he had performed the exact surgery on another patient caused by another Mossberg.

IMHO the Mossberg rifle is a danger and I would not own or shoot one.



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