Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why did the .243 outsell and eventually almost obsolete the 257 Roberts?

I too was reading about the 6mm's from Page and others. The 6mm was being used for benchrest and of course it was hyped. I bought a new M70 Varmint rifle in 243 in 1957.

I used that rifle for long range woodchucks but primarily for the Big Bore League at the Blue Trail Range in Middlefield, CT. I did well with the much lower recoil that the 243 made as compared to the 30-06's that everyone else shot.

I wore that barrel out. I never used it for game. The 243 is indeed a superb varmint round and quite accurate.

Yeah, and at only +P pressures, which are lower than the standard SAAMI pressures for the .30-06. I noticed that myself and am going to try it out soon, as I have some H100V and a couple of handy .257's....

I wonder if the 115 NP/H100V and the short action Kimber are compatable

We'll be finding out soon - I hope, right, Mule Deer? I believe there's an Ultimate Bob out there to be tested....

I've just got to find some and I'll try it as well!

Just curious...
Given that you have a .243 cal bullet and a .257 cal bullet and that they weigh the same.. 100grs for instance and traveling at virtually the same velocity.
Explain to me then how the 257 cal bullet is a safe bet and perfectly adequate while the 243 bullet is a joke and has no business being used on medium game?

This should be interesting..will get the popcorn goin now. LOL

Huntsman you should post that as a general question to the forum!

This is easy for any real rifle looney to figure out. The same weight bullet in .243 is going to be longer, thus requiring a faster twist to stabilize. The faster twist means greater centripetle force is applied to the .243 bullet, making it come apart too readily on impact and thus limiting penetration. Anybody should know that.

surely offset by the greater sectional density(dunce-ity) of the 6mm bullet!!!

The greater sectional density is offset by the fact that, given the same depth of rifling, the engraving is proportionately deeper on the .243 bullet, which also contributes to expansive dysfunction.

To all,

Another thing that happened just before the 243 came out was the discovery of the sizing up principle in bullet making. The first company to adopt this was Sierra.

What the benchrest bullet makers found was that a bullet with its lead core always sized in the same inside diameter die would allow the more springy gilding metal jacket to pull away from the lead core as it went to a second and more dies of the same diameter.

They made the subsequent dies slightly larger in diameter and that kept tension from the jacket on the lead core and made the bullet more accurate.

Since this was done about 1950 the 257 Roberts had its old accuracy reputation with the old bullets. The 243 (6mm) was new and more accurate!

the dreaded E.D.!!!

wonder if hornyday bullets suffer from that???

Clarification, I do own on3 243...its a 240 wby and it's the bomb! if you are going to own a 6mm, might as well make it speedy. mine is a win 70 with a 24" shilen barrel in a mickey stock with a 8x56 swarovski. have killed deer, antelope and prairie dogs with it, all very well!

I have read this thread with great interest, I also am old enough that I was around when the 257 was on the scene and was here when the 243 was introduced (I turn 70 shortly),and I have been a bit of a rifle nut all of my life.

I used to have a Rem 722 in 257, it was a good hunting rifle for mid-sized game but it certainly had no "magic" qualities. It was a good rifle for deer sized game but as was previously mentioned - times were not as prosperous then and most people had one hunting rifle rather than a rifle for every occassion. If most folks had to have one rifle it was a 270 or 30/06, perhaps because of their versatility or maybe just because there were more of them. And while a lot of my contemporay's had 250/3000's, in Savage 99's, I had the only 257 of all of the folks I knew.

Contrary to what a lot of folks want to believe the 257 was never a popular caliber, if you doubt this just take a look at the number that were sold in either the Win 70 or the Rem 700, the two largest manufacturers of the "golden" era.

I don't really think that the 243 killed it off, it hastened its demise somewhat. The 257 has always been a bit of a rifle nuts caliber, not something that most shooters were or are interested in.

Perhaps the slight added versatility of the 243 / 6mm and the hype from the gunwriters helped kill it but it was already dead except for a few custom rifles. Even today mention 257 Roberts to someone is an average hunter or shooter, not a rifle nut, and notice the blank expression on their face.

I went to a 243 quite a few years ago and in reality I cannot see any huge difference in killing ability on deer sized game between the 243 and 257 - like most other things in life the difference is greater in our mind than in reality.

drover

Its really quite a simple answer... Because the 260 wasn't a SAAMI caliber until 1997 AD

Really, seriously, you guys gotta give me that...

Lets just pretend that the 257 Bob, 243 and 260 all were introduced today (and comic books and the internet that Algore invented) didn't exist today. The 260 would kick all there asses

I agree the 257 Robert never set the gun industry on fire. I believe the 243 was viewed as a better dual purpose rifle that the Roberts and most people could only afford one rifle at the time of introduction , plus the 243 was new . I like the 257 Roberts, with my personal rifle in 257 being the Ack version with this said i would take my 243 over it if i could only have one or the other.

Uh-huh! Exactly my question! Any perceived advantage is minor, IF it exists at all, and it is that the 6mm (same 7mm Mauser case as the 257, but,necked to 6mm) can be loaded to higher velocity with 100 gr. bullets. The Roberts should be able to match those velocities, but for ~100 fps and a slightly larger diameter bullet,So What?

IMO, where the Roberts comes into its own is with 115-120gr. bullets, loaded to ~2800-2850fps. Leastways, that's the theory. But, I like my 257, and don't want to trade it for the .243.

Cuz it's cuter!

MtnHtr

I killed my first deer (Whitetail) with a .243 at maybe 40 yards.
That deer (a forkie) ran the farthest of any of the deer with I shot with, maybe 200 yards, as I it a bit too far back.I killed 3-5 deer a year with it (a Rem. 660 carbine!)for 11 or 12 years, up until I graduated from high school and got a Ruger #1 in 7x57 (still have that rifle and use it every season).

Every other deer I shot with the .243 after that died from one shot, and none ran more than 20-30 yards, most usually took a few steps and died. That was all using 100 gr. factory ammo, either Winchester or Remington, as I recall.

So I'm a bit puzzled about all the tracking being described. Maybe the 18" barrel of my 660 slowed the round down enough so the bullets didn't explode and penetrated better? But then my Dad had a M700 in .243 he was using at the same time, with a 22" barrel, and I only recall him having to shoot one deer twice, a buck he spined and had to finish off.

Anyway, not wanting to argue, just putting in my few years experience with the .243 as a deer rifle. I'd still use one if I had it (my old 660 burned up in a fire at the gunsmith's shop decades ago).

Of course, the 7x57 is the ultimate death ray on deer!


Regards,

It does seem to me that 243 is the cartridge that gets shafted on every internet forum. Mine has just celebrated it's first birthday! It has killed 1 deer and 4 hogs, last hog dressed out at #200. Nothing has required tracking. Rifle is a Tikka and handloaded 85gr Sierra GK, deadly accurate. This rifle replaced a CZ which was a royal PIA.
Few years back I shot a deer too far back with a 30-06, took me days to find the carcass. Shot placement, not caliber is the key. Never shot a 257 Roberts but a my 257 WBY is about to go on it's first hog hunt.

I don't disagree that the .243 gets shafted. I guess a lot by guys that shoot a deer too far back, lose the animal, then blaim it on the cartridge. The other group that I mostly hunt with and are not so much shooters as they are hunters, are the ones that parrot everything they hear and never hunt with anything but a 30-06. If the question comes up, which rifle should I buy, the answer is 30-06, thats it, end of discussion. If you ever in your lifetime show up with a .243 then the after dinner campfire talk waxs eloquently about what a piece of crap the round is, how Jim's third cousins brother lost the biggest deer of his life etc. if liquor is applied to stimulate the conversation things can get lively. I admit I myself am a victim of .243 Stockholm syndrome. So there was a real reason for this question. With all that I have heard over my short 46 years of hunting my confusion was simply how does a cartridge like the .243 that clearly from my personal experience has a somewhat bad reputation among many deer hunters surpass in sales something that had been on the market and even IIRC praised by Jack O Conner? I thank Mule Deer and others who answered the question, a strong sales pitch by a well regarded pitchman, Warren Page and intense marketing made it so despite their similarities! As I get a bit older I am wanting a feather light rifle with lighter recoil that I can tote easily, but then who really needs an excuse for a new rifle anyway? The question we all have to ask ourselves is if the lord appeared to you and told you that you could spend every day for the rest of your life hunting what ever you wanted to, whenever you wanted to and anywhere you wanted to go at no charge... but with the catch that you had to hunt with a NEF single shot .243 with the scope of your choice (no optics discussions please) would you turn the old boy's offer down? Not me I would be sitting in the woods this afternoon ballistic gack be damned!