Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Some really basic questions

I finally found the proper mould for my BPCR, and will also order dies from Buffalo Arms in the AM if I haven't been called to work. It's not one with all the 'cowboy' connotations, but a 10.4 X 47R. The 300+ gr .429 heeled bullet also has a hollow base. While I'll most likely work up a smokeless load, I'd like to shoot it with the original load of 61 gr of FG. The questions:

What do I need to put between the bullet and the powder for optimum accuracy?

The case is made from 348. Would magnum primers be beneficial?

Is it necessary or helpful to fill the hollow base with anything - like beeswax?

Thanks! SW

1. Walters Wad , John Walters 405-799-0376. Ask John about what thickness to use for appropriate compression.
2. Some use Magnums some don't use whichever gives you the least maximum velocity deviation.
3. Every shooter I've ever seen that was competitive used a flatbase bullet No gaschecks allowed.
4.BPCR is Pure Blackpowder or Pyrodex. No smokeless allowed even for duplex loads.........DJ

In my 45-70 blackpowder cartridges I use a Wonder Wad, plus a dab of Bore Butter on top of that. Then followed by a well lubed bullet of my own recipe. Swiss powder fan myself. As for primers I'm happy with std. WW large rifle primers. Out of curiosity I'd have to try bore butter in that hollow base.

Thanks! Looking at the replies, this is starting to look like a dedicated competition board. Not having paid sufficient attention, I hought it was for any BP cartridges. Oh well...

I asked the ? about filling the hollow base since Mr. Sefried had mentioned that when working up loads for a Brit BPCR in Rifle magazine. I don't recall what the cal. was, but the idea seemed sound. Anyway, I didn't mean to ask an off topic question on you. SW

NebrHogger,

You aren't off topic at all, and there is no intent for this to be dedicated to competitive BPCR shooting. There are other sites that have that focus. This is a fairly new topic area that Rick set up at my suggestion (I think), and my recommendation was to make it a BPCR forum as distinguished from modern single shots like Contenders, etc., not to be exclusive but only because of some fundamental differences between shooting the modern single shots and the old time guns. You're more than welcome, and I for one am glad to see you here.

Paul

Paul39 - I'll second that!

Hogger,
Most people use old notepads as a wad between the bullet and the powder. Some use a thin sheet of wax, but I've never had any luck with that method.
I tend to go around work stealing the backs off of notepads, and taking them home to punch circles out of.
I don't fill the base on a balloon case with anything. I do tend to stay away from balloon base cases, as they are generally a bit weaker, and older, but with BP that shouldn't be a problem.
I use magnum primers with BP loads, but I'm not sure if it really makes a difference. Since I don't shoot competitively, I do use duplex loads also. In addition, I use Clan Shot as a replicant powder often, because the clean up is much easier.
Good luck with your new toy!

Hi..Just how hollow is the base of your bullet? Is the skirt 1/6 inch thick? or thicker? If you have a thin skirt, using an over-the-powder wad may result in the wad being driven into the base, giving you accuracy variations. Something to keep in mind. I would not put any lub in the base. Won`t do anything. I`ve tried. Should you be able to recover spent bullets, you`ll find the lub intact in the base.
I do a couple of things with flat base greased bullets. Punch some wads from news paper. This wad will go next to the base where there`s a likely hood of excess grease. The news paper wad is lite. and will stick to the bullet, your over-the-powder wad won`t stick to the news paper, and will be shed soon after it leaves the barrel. I find them all over the snow when I shoot in the winter. Should not choose to do this, wipe each bullet base CLEAN. Sticky wads cause lose groups. I will cut my cardboard wads from juce cartens. Use as many as you need to get a good gas seal. Should you notice lead in the bore, your bullets are gas cut, woun`t shoot worth a darn, and will drive you nuts. Thats why some use gas checked bullets.
I use Fed. Mag primers in the Sharps. For me, they work. I also use 3f Goex 95 grns. 550 grn RN borerider. I also use 520 grns. paper patch.
Black is fun, but not as easy as loading smokless to achieve the desired results of puting the bullet where you want it to go.

Let's see, 95 grains and a big ol' lead bullet with newspaper?
45/110 Sharps?
Catnthehat

Hey Cat..Yea.it works..have you tried it yet? or still fooling with the modern stuff? As I remember you were working up a load for pigs?? Y/N?

In my estimation, most of the big cases shoot better with real black powder. The 45-70 can shoot fine with some of the smokele$$ loads, but when you get to the bigger cases, I think the velocity is more consistent with black.

Black powder will give you great results, you just need time and effort to learn it well.

S

Thank you for your replies!! I hadn't checked this forum for a while.

I haven't tried real black yet. I used the IMR 4198 formula from Donnelly's cartridge conversion book (.29 X gr of black) and the results weren't that great - 5" at 50 yards. I dug around in my powder locker and found some OLD Pyrodex CTG - it was priced 6.50, so it's been in there a while and has never been opened. I also have some FFFG black, but I'm concerned it's too fine.

With the IMR 4198, I covered it with 1/4 square of TP and put 2 or 3 grains of pillow stuffing over that. The original load for the 10.4 X 47R was 61 gr of FG and a 300 gr hollow base bullet. RCBS actually makes a mold for this. It drops at 305 gr (wheelweights) and it's a heeled (.410) .427 bullet with a thick-walled hollow base. - 2 exposed grease grooves.

Anyway, my next move is Pyrodex CTG with newspaper (and some with wax juice carton) overpowder wads.

Does Pyrodex need to be slightly compressed to work well?

Thanks again, SW

Howdy, CP! I've shot it some, got the peep sight worked out, but George is still working on our scope mounts.
They are TOO COOL! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

big time rotator problems again, this time bad.
About all I can take of my .308 unlimited sill. rifle is 40 rounds!

The Sharps, and the other big magnums that I do work on are out of the qestion for me until I can get a machine rest , or something like the Caldwell" lead sled" built.
I can still shoot my bow, and my lighter rifles, okay, so it's not doomsday or anything like that. Shot a 264 Win mag the other day, but just with 120's. That seemed not too bad till later...
The Old Badger has gratiously offered to trade the big Sharps for his 40/65 High wall, and I may just take him up on it - minus the scope! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Nebr, one thing I would caution about wads in BPCR size cases. To much other stuff in a case can form a fused mass when fired, occasionally some of the guys will find excessive case stretching to the point of the front end of the case being pulled free. I suppose if you were unsure about a bunch of wads causing a problem you could monitor case length before and after firing until you were satisfied that there was not a problem.

I have noticed that most of the guys I know shooting NRA BPCR silhouettes use only a single wad of vegetable fiber or LDPE. Both are available in .030 and .060 thicknesses.

Nothing to panic over, just keep it in mind.

Take care,

S

SS, you are correct..I was thinking around 2-3. The most I`ve ever used was 3.
Nebr may get lucky with the bullet he`s chosen, and not have to use any. It`s aprocess of trial and error, as what may work in one rifle in all probability will not in yours. Least, thats what I`ve found.
3F should not be a problem in the gun. Start a bit under max and work from there.
Also, note all cases are not made the same..volume will change with different cases, so don`t mix. Good luck, and let us know how your doen.

RRW:
I noticed that you mentioned using Bore Butter. I know some guys that have had problems with it. Most of the problems came from coating barrels in storage and hoping it prevents rust. I think what happened is the barrels weren't perfectly clean when they covered them with Bore Butter. Some time later they found frosting in the barrel under the Bore Butter.

I finally quit using it all together. I hate worrying.

S

SS,..what are you shooting? Rifle etc??

CG:
I shoot a bunch of them. My all time favorite is a Shiloh, built a like an LRE but only around 10lbs. It is chambered in 40-70ss and it has killed a couple of truck loads of game. My silhouette rifle is a Shiloh in 45-100. Not the optimum for silhouette but I shot my way into AAA with it. Got a Borchardt up at Lee Shaver's getting a face lift. An original high wall built into a silhouette rifle in 40-65, but I can't seem to get in tune with it. Couple of rolling blocks, and a custom Hawken in .58. A real hog killing machine.

I guess that is about it in black powder, I may have missed a couple in the back of a safe but those are my main guns. I do have a new Shiloh coming. 40-70ss, Ken Hurst engraving, and some Hollywood fancy wood. I would like to say that the new Shiloh is going to be a show rifle, but the real truth is that it is going to get hunted hard.

What about you?

S

SS..Two..both Sharps in 45x110.. one is a 74 the other a 75. Love these guns..been shooting them bout 15 years. .use BP exclusevly..Hunt with the 74..thats fun!!! Have taken deer and Antilope in Wy. with it, and as was stated here on another post, by Cat. I think, one does HUNT differently! I`ve tried all bullet weights plus jacketed, with BP. Settled on the 550`s. PP and grease w/GC. They bring SMOKE on what is hit. In fact, I may just hunt with it if we get a draw for Elk in Col. this fall..
Not a competor in this game, do High Power, but my buddy shoots long range with a 74 in 45x100.
We do shoot gongs at 500, what a blast..
My 74 was one of the last made in NY befor the move to Big Timber.

That frosting would really bite! I'm like you, probably weren't perfectly clean. I'll sure keep that in mind though. I see you have a custom .58 Hawken? I shot one for years, wasn't a custom though. Italian, bought it in 1976. Had read an article where Val Forgett had taken all the Big Game in Africa with a Navy Arms in .58, decided I "just" had to have one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Shooting it with the loads he used on Cape Buffalo and etc., off a bench, hurt I'm here to tell ya. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Decided that load wasn't needed for these deer around here. Bet it is a hog dropping SOB!