Home Forums Birds & Dogs Turkey Hunting Indian Creek Choke Tubes: 3rd Consecutive NWTF Still Target Champion

If you can get good patterns with 4's than use them I use both 4's and 5's and my patterns are plenty dense over 150 in a 10 inch at 40 which makes me happy enough. Not near as dense as that #7 handloaded hevi but my pellets are hitting harder and I save money to buy calls which I'd rather spend the money on. Hevi shot hits as hard as one shot size of lead bigger at most. No way that 7's are hitting like 5's. I've read enough reports of people weighing the stuff to know the difference ain't that big.

That's funny right there.

You should join the Old Gobbler Forum and see what guns can do

30" doesn't mean much for turkey hunting IMO, I pattern shotguns all the time.

Take a steel tape and measure 40 yards from your bbl tip and tell me how many of those no 4s you put in a 10" circle and 20" circle. I'm willing to bet it's not over 70-80 pellets max.

I have NEVER seen a #4 pattern worth a flip at a real measured 40 yards. If you killed them at 60, you simply got a lucky pellet.

Good Luck

Reloader7RM

Not true wis, I talk with guys all the time that live handloading turkey guns as well as myself. #7 hevi will hit as hard or harder than #5 lead for a fact. We do penetration testing to prove loads. The thing with hevi is you have denser pellets that are harder than steel with less surface area. That leads to more penetration. Turkey killing is all about penetration plain and simple. #7 hevi will kill at 70 yards

At 60 yards the handloaded 7s will put more pellets in a 10 than most good patterning turkey guns will at 40 yards. A friend of mine is using tungsten 18 g/cc and t19g/cc pellets in #8 and #9 that hit like #4 and #3 lead and hold patterns over 100 at 70 yards They penetrate far better than lead 4s It's all about the denisity, hardness, and patterns for the ultimate turkey loads.

Ya'll have a good One,

Reloader7RM

No lucky pellet. I can kill any gobbler that walks consistently at 50yds very easily with this setup. I think you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee about your 10" circle and how many shot you are putting supposedly in it. You got world record guns is all I can say if you do the math what the guys are putting in a 3" circle at 40yds with barrels that aren't factory made. I know what the Hevi-Shot load will in fact do. The Nitrto 7.5 will shoot denser because there is a lot more shot there. Kind of like shooting match guns that I have shot or seen shoot that will shoot the densest patterns. Your guns you say that put that many shot in a 10" circle will easily beat the records in existence I guess is what your saying. 54 shot in a 3" circle at 40yds is the current world record with Hevi-Shot 2oz #6 loads. That's pretty damn good. Take that 3" circle times 3 and you tell me you can with 1" over the 9" circle put 150 shot of #4's in a 10" circle at 40yds which don't have near the number of shot. Come on. I been shooting too long to believe that one. You guys need to get real. I'm from the Show-Me state. I invite you and your guns to attend the NWTF shoot. You can even use your reloads and I still say you won't win with a 2oz load of #6's.

Kind of reminds me of the guy that said his brothers gun would blow a turkey head off at 40yds. It shot that tight. I said well let's go shoot that baby at the range. I got a gun that I bet will give it a run. After about 10 minutes of him shooting and me shooting, he was scratching his head and singing a different tune.

I see the same thing about guys that have a tackdriving 22 that will shoot holes all day long at 50yds. You get them out at the range and they never seem to be able to prove it. I got a a 22 that will shoot groups with the very best guns out there at 50yds. But I got a lot of money in it. It will shoot 5 shot groups in the low .1's very easily.

Why are 70 yard patterns even talked about amongst supposed turkey hunted hunters? If my gun patterns good enough to kill one everytime at 50 yards which means over 100 hits in the 10 inch for me it give me 10 yards of room for error cause I don't ever plan to shoot one over 40. You having high praise for the old gobbler forum only makes sense.

BradC, you need to smell the coffee my friend. You don't have a clue. "3" circle times 3 equals a 9" circle," that's funny right there Study your math a little.

Like I said, bring your bad self over to some other forums. BTW those NWTF winners are on those forums

You can believe what you want. I will say I'll put my money where my mouth is. If you come to my range, I will pay you $1,000 if your turkey rig you keep praising will hold a candle to any of mine. I've spent thousands of dollars and countless hours developing loads that will beat anything out there. I don't do it for bragging rights, it's a hobby several of my friends and I have and we are always looking to better our rigs. They wouldn't allow handloads at the NWTF shoots as it wouldn't be an equal playing field as it is now. If they allowed handloads, that 54 count world record would be left in the past. I prefer 7s or 6x7s in my loads, but have a friend that's getting 340s-350s in a ten at 40 with his straight 6 loads. I simply prefer more hits on target.

I say again, measure with a tape from barrel tip to target and tell me how many you get in a ten inch circle at 40 yds.

Wis, back to your comment, never said anything about shooting them that far. I can with ease, but I prefer a 30-40 yard shot as much as the next guy. If they hang up around 50-60 I can take them easily as well. It's a hobby just as target shooting rifles. It cost alot of money, but I enjoy it alot and know several others that are pretty hard core about it as well. It's pretty satisfing seeing how handloads can be so efficient in shotguns. It is a good safety factor though, If a bird hangs up at what's thought to be 50yds and he's actually 60, he's going down with these types of loads. I'll probably also be using some of my 3" loads with a mere 1-3/4oz of shot as they are printing consistent 320s in a ten at 40yds.

Ya'll have a good one,

Reloader7RM

comment,

I think your missing the point. We can shoot the exact same factory loads, and I doubt you would do any better at 40yds in 10" circle.

A 3" circle doubled in a 6" circle is it not? 1.5" in diameter all the way around will give you a 3" circle. 3" in diameter on a compass will give you a 6" circle. So 1.5 time 3 which is 4.5" in diameter will give you a 9" circle.

I'd bet money that my 835 will shoot any # 4 load as good as any factory shotgun you have.

BradC,

I see how you are mistaking it, but area is pi*radius squared for circles.

The area of a 3" circle is 7.069 square inches, so 3 3" circles are only 21.207 square inches. A single 9" circle contains 63.617 square inches, so a single 9" circle is roughly 3 times larger than three 3" circles combined.

My theory is that a load should place roughly 1 pellet per square inch in a circle with and evenly dispersed pattern at your max range to be effective for turkey. That is roughly 80 pellets in a 10" circle. It's always better to have a safety factor for the fact that no two patterns are equal even from the same gun, so I feel it's best to have at least 100 evenly dispersed pellets in a 10" circle consistently at your max range. Vary the range until you see the 100 hits in a 10 consistently to find the max range of any gun/choke/load's effective range. It may be 25yds for some rigs and may be 75yds for others. That doesn't mean it's ethical to shoot that far, but it's a good method IMO to determine the effective range of any given combo. I do that with most of my rigs and it seems to pay off in the hunting fields.

I'll be guiding a youth in a few weeks and intend to pattern his 20ga before long. I picked up a box of #6 hevi and a couple boxes of Winchester #5 lead. I hope it will get to 30 yds with one of those combos, but want a nice even and fairly large pattern in case he gets too excited.

Have a Good One,

Reloader7RM

Do you actually shoot TURKEYS? or just pictures of them?

This thread has turned silly. If you're trying to sell an Indian Creek Choke to turkey hunters, I would not have posted the pattern. It is riddled with holes in the pattern. Could care less how many holes are in a 3" circle. If I shot that pattern, I'd be using a different load or choke.

Just curious why they do the 12 ga contests with 3" loads.
Pop guns.
Gimme the 3-1/2" all day!!

My 835 Mossberg with a 28" barrel KILLS my Rem 870 Wingmaster with a 30" full barrel.
Its the 3-1/2" shell vs the 3" that does it.

Reloader,

I guess I owe you an apology.

This guy here had some awesome results with Hevi-Shot reloads. This is a 10" circle. I can't believe the results.

I have tried the factory Rem Hevi-Shot loads(1 and 3/4oz #6 and 1 and 7/8oz #5) and didn't get near this reult. But I did get a 98% pattern at 40yds with the 1 and 3/4oz #6 loads in a 30" circle.

Now that's a good hunting pattern.

I know that fella

No need for an apology, this stuff is fairly new and the word hasn't gotten out so to speak.

If you are talking about those Old White 1-3/4oz #6 H13s, those were some awesome shells. I still have about 14 boxes of them and they commonly shoot around 215 in a 10 at 40 with a few going 225, 234, and 242. Not bad for a mere 1-3/4oz of 6 shot. Those shells actually out pattern the newer Hevi 13 loads for me, even the 3.5" loads. Since the Old Whites stop being produced, it sort of sparked my handloading project.

Hevi 13 has a slower velocity and often chronos from 975-1100 fps with most going around 1030 IME. I wanted to produce loads that outpatterned them with more speed. I finally settled on a 3" handload with only 1-3/4oz of #6 hevishot that was averaging mid 220s from short 23" bbl Remingtons at 1200 fps. That was better than any factory ammo I could find(I bought 100s of dollars of the best on the market), so my goal had been reached with a nice light recoiling 3" load that outperformed all factory ammo. Then, I started loading 3.5 loads to see how they compared to the ultimate ammo available to the public, Nitro Ammo Co. That challenge resulted in a 2.25" 6x7 hevi load(1240fps) that averages 390s in the 23" bbl 870SM and a 2.25oz straight 7 hevi load that goes around 415 from the 23" 870SMs and over 500 with the 835. The 835 will hands down outpattern an 870, but I just don't care to hunt with my 835 as it's been very undependable. It will make my handloads really shine, but I prefer to hunt with my Remington 23" bbld guns, so I primarily test in them. I also developed a 1-3/4 oz 3" straight hevi 7 load along the way that averages 320s in a 10 at 40 from 23" bbls. Longer bbls commonly pattern better, but I prefer to test from the short bbl guns I hunt with. Those 3.5s blew Nitros out of the water, so my goals were met and I feel the loads turned out well. It's been an expensive, but pretty productive project.

Have a Good One,

loder

Have you tried the newest nitro 3.5 inch shell? Think its 2 7/16 of hevi's. I know guys are getting over 300 with them and thats with the bigger shot mixed in. I'm pretty happy with the way my gun is shooting with cheap lead ammo but if I was going to go with heavier than lead I'd skip the factory stuff and go right to nitros. I don't see a big enough of an improvment with hevi-13 or xtended range over what I'm shooting now.

I was talking about the Remington Hevi-Shot green and yellow boxes that they quit making. They shot real good out of my Browning auto i used to have. I was shooting a 3" #6 load of the 1 and 3/4oz Hevi-Shot and put 181 shot in a piece of copy paper with a turkey head on it. I don't know what that equivalates to be as how many shot that would have been in a 10" circle though.

Here's the same guy I mentioned above with 1 and 3/4oz loads.

Wis, I haven't tried them and probably will not. I will say that the larger shot mixed in is soley marketing and for the hunter. The 7s kill the turkeys and the larger shot satisfy the hunter. Every Nitro I've seen disected had a very small qtty of the larger pellets and if you'll notice that every pattern pic you see of them has very little if any larger holes in the 10" circle. I know that the 7s put up the numbers and give the impacts to the birds, so I like straight 7s. That said, a relative is still in the mindset of lead and wanted 6s mixed in his loads so we went with 1.25oz of 7s and 1oz of 6s in his loads and actually had good results with 390s at 40 yds in the 10" circles out of a short 23" bbl. I'd expect those loads to go around 450 in my 835, but just haven't run them in it. The patterns had quite a few of the larger holes as well.

The best patterning weather is 70s-80s, no wind, and high humidity IME. To test our loads in poor weather, we shot last weekend in the 50s with a breeze and lower humidity. That range session produced a 162 and 153 with the 3.5" straight 7 at 60yards in a 10" circle from two 23" bbl 870s. 138 with the 6x7 and 109 with the 1-3/4oz 7 from a 23" bbl as well. All of those were 60 yard 10" counts. That's a long ways, but if a bird hangs up at whats thought to be 50 and actually turns out to be a bit further, we're covered.

Brad,

Those old Remington hevis were good shells as well.

Ya'll Have a Good One,

Reloader7RM

Hero's all.

I just want to kill turkeys at 30 yards, like I usually do.

what are you guy's reffering to when you are talking about "nitro's"?