Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Kirt Darner Update Questions

alpinecrick said "To the best of my knowledge, those are not the same bucks--the buck killed between Telluride and Nucla--the one on the cover of his book-- (along the San Miguel) was carbon dated to be killed in 1976. Darner allowed the Mule Deer Foundation to take the head to Arizona to be dated."


Then you'd be wrong my friend. It has been proven by several people that it is indeed the same buck. Those pics have been transposed, flipped, etc by many experts and they are one in the same. End of story.

Whatever he may have done or been at one time, Kirt Darner is now a convicted felon and very deservedly so. Nothing more than a slime ball.

Frankly, I think he got off lucky. IMHO he deserved a long vacation at state expense.

Prove it.


I look at trophy muley photos all the time--after a while they begin to look the same--it ain't the first time photos of different heads have been questioned as the same.

Heck, I've examined elk antlers from different bulls side by side that were practically identical. And if one saw the antlers separately one would swear they were the same rack......



Casey

He was never convicted, he pled guilty--which is why he is probably walking free today. And yes, he did get off lucky--lucky in that he had a lawyer who began to shoot holes (pun intended ) in the prosecution's case.

A couple years ago the federal and NM prosecutors were telling my taxidermist friend Darner was going to state or fed prison for a long time--but it didn't happen.

--The authorities could never figure out what happened to the domestic elk that had their papers swapped with wild elk.

--The two guys that Darner allegedly hired to steal the bighorn heads had prior convictions for felony theft--their word in court wasn't going to be worth much.

--And the Lacey Act violations hinged on the above charges.

--In addition, the trial had been delayed numerous times over a 3+ year period, and Darner was/is in bad health--at least he claimed.

The prosecutors decided to take what they could in the end......



Casey

Try this on for size.....


http://www.hunts.net/darner.html

Casey-I wasn't commenting on his gun rights, I was just saying it sounds to me like he's been running outside the law in terms of taking game (poaching) and it sounds like he got off pretty darn easy.

I was only saying that I bet he'll do it again and most likely will get caught at it sooner or later.

I hope I'm wrong, but I bet I'm not.

Dober

Technically you are right � he was not convicted by a jury. Instead he ADMITTED guilt and was sentenced accordingly.

Not much difference to my way of thinking.

Dober,

I wasn't suggesting anything else, it was just a side note

Part of the plea bargan is no more hunting--ever. He cannot ever buy a hunting or fishing license again--anywhere. So ANY future wildlife heads in his possesion is a no-no.

Besides, he's 70 years old and in so-so health, and he's probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees--he probably doesn't have a whole lot left....



Casey

JG,

I'm aware of Larocco's article--he wrote another one about his dealings with Darner in one of the gun rags too.

But there is still nothing definitive about photos--especially old grainy b&w photos. Honestly, I've seen racks that are incredibly close in size, structure, and texture. My dad killed a 190+ typical buck that has very similar bases on the Uncompahgre Plateau (not far from Darner's buck) in 1966.

One more thing that a friend reminded me of today; I have most of the hardcover B&C books (except for the most recent ones). My 1981 B&C Records Of North American Game lists Darner's non-typical at 273 6/8--the buck was allegedly killed in 1977. The Naylor buck is also listed and was allegedly killed in 1948 and officially scores 270 3/8.

Now, I don't know about you, but my experience has been antlers and horns continue to shrink for decades (maybe longer) after they have been killed. As a former B&C scorer, I'm also aware how much variability there can be in scoring techniques.

But the Darner buck is 3 points larger than the Naylor buck.

Even allowing for some difference in scoring techniques, and if I was scoring the same buck 3 decades apart, I would expect the Darner buck to score lower--and would be suspicious if it wasn't.

But even after 30 more years of drying, the alleged same buck scores HIGHER?

Now, I'm not going to be backed into a corner defending Kirt Darner, because as I pointed out in my first post on this thread, I have always had my own reasons for being suspicious of Kirt.

So everybody can carry on, and I'll try and leave this thread alone.......




Casey

"In a plea agreement accepted by Judge Martinez-Olguin, Darner also agreed never to hunt, fish or possess a firearm in his lifetime."

Not that I'd ever get myself into the same position, but, if I ever heard a judge say those words about me, well, I guess I'd rather they just go ahead and hang me. Even if I was almost 70. I picture myself at 70 stump sittin' with a light recoiling rifle across my knees.

I was plannin' to leave a note like....

I, Hatchet Jack, being of sound mind and broke legs, do leaveth my rifle to the next thing who finds it, Lord hope he be a white man. It is a good rifle, and kilt the bear that kilt me. Anyway, I am dead. Sincerely, Hatchet Jack.

Now dat is one of my all time fav movies!

Dober

Yep
I hear that.
I seem to recall that J. O'Connor wrote an article once that made the statement that one prominent archery hunter with many book entries was guilty of the punch an arrow in the bullet hole technique.
He never came out and named the dude but apparently he was told by the offenders guides after the fact that this was the case.

"Sure, sure, and I got a fine horse under me!"

PRREDOG

If you will think back to the early 70s he was the darling hunting writer in more than one outdoor magazine . . .
I was in Vegas NM at the time as I remember it he had some success publishing about his fishing also

Then his writing was not seen in any of them.

Ever wonder why?

Dober

As I was reading down through the postings I had the same opinion . . . in my lifetime he will be caught once again.