Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Brittany or GSP?

I concidered an English Setter because everyone I hunt birds with has at least one.

For me it ended up a GSP because as luck would have it Dutch was avaible an needed a home.

Out here in the western states there just seems to be many more GSP, English Setter and Brittany breeders and trainers.

I don't know much about English Pointers and have never hunted behind any and don't know how they handle cold weather and water.

Double.... Don't even try to convince Tonk that Brits are just as good as GSP's. Its worthless. Ive seen many Brits hand GSP's there @sses at several all breed field AA field trials. Not to mention what you said about Brits and their field trail wins against all breeds.... You, like me, seem to realize that its more about breeding and training then dog breed. IVe seen some amazing GSP's as well. IMO GSP's are a little more versatile then a Brit, but for upland game they are pretty much even IMO.

DFC.. English pointers are some of the best dogs you can get. If a person wanted a big running dog, then you simple can't beat a EP. They are pretty much the only dogs that win at the National Field Trail Championship. Its a 3 hour trail with the best AA dogs in the world. That doesn't mean EP's will outhunt Brits or GSP's in the field with wild birds, but EP's are known to cover lots of ground. However, I just don't like them, IMO they are ugley. And the ones Ive seen are very high strung. I like dogs who can be house dogs, wild bird dogs, and possibly field trial dogs if they show well enough. The EP's ive seen were just a little to crazy, but then again, I'm sure there are plenty of very calm EP's as well... You simply can't beat their tails though. Its a beautiful sight watching a well trained EP on point.

Jetjockey....If I thought that Britts were the dog to have in the field, I would do something about that if in fact it were true. If I abelieved that Britts were more versatile in the field, I would once again have a kennel full of the curly haired little rascals of English decent and be done with it all. In stead of having 18 of the best bred German Shorthairs Pointers you could ever hunt over sir. Not to mention pedigrees that would make the Queen of England sit up and take notice!

However, I don't believe that Britts are better suited in the field than GSP's and have seen far to many GSP's work and bring home the bacon in a hurry and I am speaking of 500 acre or larger fields mind you. Not the 40 acre patches of bird habitat.

Like I stated earlier, you bring a couple of those Britts down to Eureka Springs, Arkansas this year and we will have some real fun with the dogs. It's plenty big and tuff to run on, so have your dog and it's pads in shape.

Tonk... What your misssing is the fact that Brits are some of (if not the most) decorated Field Trail breeds there is. I just used the NSTRA example because its an all breed field trail and it has been DOMINATED by a Brit. As Double pointed out Brits Dominated the AKC All Breed Gun Dog Championship last year as well.

There are many good GSP's that run in NSTRA, but it has been dominated by a Brit. WHY?

You also don't seem to realize that many of the Brits that I hunt over and own are All Age Brits, not just NSTRA brits. The 500 acre fields you seem to think are big are not big where I come from (remember my post about the Palouse Hills in WA state?) Why would I want to bring a brit to a GSP field trail? You act like I don't know what an AA dog is, well I do. Quite well actually. And I don't care how "GOOD" your breeding is. My dogs are very well breed as well. I have many HOF Brits in my breeding. But I also realize the best breeding in the world can produce the occasional dude, but occasionally some of the best dogs come out of nowhere.

You said GSP's are better hunting dogs then Brits. If your GSP's are so good, how come they aren't dominating the Field Trial National Championships (which is dominated by EP's and a very few ES's)? And why isn't the all time NSTRA winner a GSP? NSTRA tends to be dominated by pointers/setters. Which should tell you that the advantage still goes to big running fast dogs. Why do you only use the GSPCA championship wich is only for GSP's as your arguement?

You obviously think GSP's are the best hunting dogs in the world. I cant change that. But you don't know that it more about breeding then breed. But you can't seem to tell me why GSP's haven't dominated NSTRA or the real Field Trial National Championship. You can only explain why they dominate the GSPCA Championship. I don't try and tell you why GSP's don't win at the ABC Championship in Booneville AR.....

Everyone seems to understand it has more to do with breeding and training then what breed of dog you have.... Well, except you! I could give you all the cold hard proof there is that GSP's aren't any better then Brits (they aren't any worse either) but you wouldn't understand.

Bring your dogs down to Booneville AR this year and we will see how they do against the best Brits in the country. Oh wait, they don't let GSP's in a Brit event. OK.. Then bring your GSP's to the Field Trail National Champoinship, any NSTRA event, or any other Field Trail held for all breeds. Then you can tell me that your GSP's are better then all the other pointing breeds. Brits, GSP's, ES's, and EP's are all very, very good hunting dogs. None are better then the other. EP's and ES's tend to run really big while Brits and GSP's tend to be closer ranging dogs. Simple as that.

Jetjockey, I have seen with my own eyes those 80 acre fields that the NSTRA runs dogs through and yes a 500 acre field is not overly large but beats the hell out of an acre trial field for the NSTRA and dog owners walking like they have a corn cob up their butts trying to get to their dogs before time runs out.

I NEVER stated any such thing, as to the fact YOU don't know anything about a so called AA dog! Those are your words not mine understand. An just so you know, a German Shorthair Pointer did win the ALL BREED Championships awhile back and his name was NFC Ricky's Rollin Thunder.

I don't particularly care for Britts because I don't like spending time cleaning a dog after a couple hours in the field. I also don't care for the fact, that Britts won't take harsh talking too in the field or home. I like a tuff nut dog, that can flat get after birds and won't shy away because things start to get tuff or weather isn't the greatest.

Big running pointers dominate the quail hunting and always have for that matter. It is what they were bred for in the first place. They are as a general rule, not affectionate as Britts or GSP dogs. Now on breeding, you breed the best to the best and pray or hope for the best.

Yes I do favor German Shorthair Pointers and until another breed comes along that is as versatile as the GSP breed, I'll be sticking with what I have in the kennels out back sir.

Tonk... Those arguements I can agree with. Brits do tend to be softer then GSP's. Some people don't like training them becaus of that reason. But I also think they aim to please their owner more then a GSP. And for that reason you don't need to talk harshley to them. At least you don't with my dogs... I don't have a problem cleaning them either since my Brits have relatively short hair and I keep them trimmed. Cleaning them is very easy.
As far as Brits shying away when things get tough, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Every Brit I have seen goes like hell. Ive seen Brits dive into heavy briar patches and watched as the larger GSP's stoped. The brits came out the other side still going like hell and the GSP's went around. One of my pups went through barbed wire that was covered up and cut the hell out of herself. Problem was I couldn't get her to stop so I could clean her up. I also never saw them slow down when we used to hunt pheasants in the snow of Eastern WA. Ive hunted when temps hit the single digits and everyone wanted to quit except for the dogs. They had no problem with the temps. However, a brit most likely won't head into icy cold water like a GSP will. I think Brits are a hell of a lot tougher then people give them credit for.

Britts and GSP's are affectionate dogs, and that is the reason GSP's would probably be my second choice in a pointing dog. As far as pointers dominating quail hunting. Well....... Maybe. I now live in GA and there is a ton of quail hunting down here (albeit a lot of released plantation birds). Ever since Buddy dominated NSTRA you are starting to see a few more Brits and GSP's. Which IMO is a good thing, since I'm not a fan of EP's or ES's.

Jetjockey, I too am not a fan of ES or EP! Now come to think of it I almost bought a small place outside of Albany, GA. I always wanted to hunt the quail the old fashioned way down in GA but it never happened, not even when I was stationed at Fort Benning some years ago. Albany was a great place and one of the cleanest towns I was ever in for a fact. I have found memories of Callaway Gardens up North too.

Ya, but have you seen the prices for some of the high end quail plantations??? Holly $%#$ they can be expensive. And the wild quail are hard to find. They still exist, but its tough to get the farmers to let you hunt their land unless you know them....

The interesting thing about the dogs on a few of the plantations Ive seen is that they aren't really all that impressive. I believe many of them are dogs that were sold to plantations because they couldn't make it as field trail dogs. You see some decent dogs, but with the amount of birds shot over some of them they should be amazing, but a lot of the times they aren't. Yet some of the handlers seem to think their dogs are great just because the amount of birds shot over them. A good friend of mine had a Brit from one of his own litters. He was hoping he would turn into an AA dog but it just wasn't going to happen. He was a good dog but he just didn't run big enough. That dog got sold to a plantation and the guys loved it. I think that kind of thing happens a lot with quail plantations...

Jetjockey I know what your saying is very true in many instances because I have wittnessed this for myself on several occasions at other so called hunting clubs. One of the big reasons I wanted my own dogs to travel with us and not depend on somebody elses dogs.

We usually take seven dogs with us on a bird hunt, one in the cab of the truck (wife's pet) and the other 6 in in the dog trailer. The trailer was great when the temperatures didn't get to high. I got caught one year with soaring temps into the 80's while going to South Dakota.

We had no air-conditioning on that trailer at that time. Now I have that issue taken care of by reinsulating the dog boxes from the outside with a R-38 insulating foam. Also have a 13,000 BTU air conditioner, driven by a Honda generato to pipe that cool air into the dog compartments.

"TONK" "JETJOCKEY

I am glad that you both got over saying mine is bigger than
yours and started really talking about the attributes of the two
breeds. I enjoyed reading your last few posts where I could learn
something about them. Thank you Cheers NC

Jetjockey
Years ago I started as a setter lover, but found that I was losing to the pointers. I kept some Crocket setters, but went to pointers, and never regretted it. They are more reserved, stubborn, bullheaded than others but I found them to be more natural as hunters. Any dog I prized was with me 24/7 from the time it was 6 weeks until at least 6 months. This was recommended to me by a famous Georgia field trial trainer. I make no claim as to which breed is best; there are outstanding individuals in each breed and I fear I spoiled more than I trained. But it is fun discussing their attributes and shortcomings. The bird (quail) hunting I so much enjoyed is a thing of the past, and I no longer have dogs.However, the nostalgia remains.
dave

Tonk just doesn't realize that Brits are better then GSP's... But he's learning.... hahah... Just don't try to convince me anything is better then a brit! ;-) ...... On a more serious note, there is nothing wrong with EP's or EP's. Everyone has their personal preference. I will admit, i'm a Brit guy because I grew up with them. Tonk is a GSP guy. There is probably a million EP and ES guys out there as well. I will agree with dfcjr. A pup needs to be with its owner a lot when its a pup. It will form a bond that can't be broken. Doesn't matter what breed it is.

The thing about bird dogs is that there is a lot of dogs out there that haven't had any training but their owners think they have the best dog in the world.. Ive been there. That was one of the Brits I grew up with. She hunted on pure abiity alone. I watched that dog amaze me more then any other dog Ive hunted over. Unfortunatly for her, she never had the training she deserved because we were weekend warrior bird hunters, and we didn't know any better. But that dog cemented my love for brits.... I just wish I had that Brit now, because she was an amazing dog. Since then Ive learned what really makes a great bird dog. I'm sure there is a bunch of great dogs that will never run in a Trial, but could easily win one. It doesn't matter if its a Brit, GSP, EP, ES, Vizla, Pointing Lab, etc. The best thing about bird dogs is that we, as owners, love what we do. Id love to hunt over Tonks GSP's. I also love hunting over my uncles Tiger Mt. Pointing Labs. But no matter what, I love hunting over my pups the best. And if my pups were GSP's, Ep's, or Pointing labs Id still love hunting over them the best. And thats what makes bird dog hunting so amazing. You could give me a 3 week Governor tag Elk hunt in Arizona, and Id still take a 4 day bird hunt in Florida............ Ok, maybe not but you get my point. Thats why I don't mind arguing with Tonk, becuase the passion we both have for our breeds is what will keep bird hunting around for a long, long time. And in all honesty, it doesn't matter who has the best dogs. What matters is that we are both very passionate about bird dog huntng, no matter what breed we are hunting over.

Dave. You are right. If we don't start protecting some or our hunting rights a little more our kids won't have the same opportunity's that we have had. I grew up hunting in the Yakima Valley in Eastern WA. Unfortunately the fields I grew up hunting are now grape fields for wine. We then went to the Columbia Platteu out of Royal City, and then headed even farther east to the Palouse hills. My best memories of bird hunting were sitting in the passenger seat of my dads truck at 4 in the morning listening to country music with our pups as we headed to E. Washington to hunt pheasants. I hope I get to pass that down to my kids.

dfcjr...What jetjockey doesn't seem to remember, is that TONK has had Britts for 17 years as a young man and does know a little something about that breed.

Several years back, we had a couple of cases where things were not to our liking with other dogs at hunting preserves. So we oppted to get our own dogs. Now after doing research work and putting down on paper what we already knew of other breeds, we chose the German Shorthair Pointer line of dogs in the USA.

Now after searching and waiting for some top notch bred pups out of a national field trial champion litter, we started with our first two GSP'S. As time went on, we added here and there to the tune of 18 GSP dogs.

Great Breeding and excellent proper training are what pays dividends in the long run for the hunter, who really has a passion for hunting Upland. I don't believe in pushing a dog, especially a young dog to quick.

Time and time again, I have listened to people tell me, how their pup will be hunting under the gun at 6 months of age. Nothing gets my dander up more than hearing that foolish statement being made and the risk factor involved with a pup becoming "gun-shy" from some persons wants to make his dog a great hunter under the gun before the age of 10 months.

We don't even begin to train pups that are 6 months old for much of anything, other than they know their name and come on command most of the time. Now by 8 months we have them returning to the kennel on command and will start to take them on walks around the compound on a leash.

NO Guns until they are 12 months old! Our pups get to play outside for 2 hours every day and are socialized with other dogs and people. They get to partake in dogs chasing and pointing birds passing overhead from the pigeon lofts everyday. They learn what a bird being released from an electric trap is all about to from a distance. We try real hard to keep any negative things from happening to them at this young age.

Tonk. I remember you had brits... But jeesh.. learn how to take a joke.

I agree with everything you said in your above post, be we have shot over pups less then 12 months old. With my current pup we started shooting over her when she was 7 months old. But we worked her up to it VERY slowly. At 8 months she had no problem with gunfire at all. What pisses me off is when some guy takes a new pup out and blasts a 12 guage over their heads the first time the dog ever points something in the field. That is a very good way to ruin a pup. I woulnd't shoot over a shy timid dog before 12 months though. Every dog is different and you need to take dogs by a case by case bases. HEll, I probably could of shot over my current pup at 4 months old if she had a bird on point. She wouldn't have cared. Ive never seen a dog that is so crazy about birds in my life. Shes going to S. Dakota this summer for camp. We shall see if she turns out to be AA material. She already runs big, is very smart, and seems to have a great nose so I don't think that will be an issue. She will be a good AA dog. Time will tell if she will be a great AA dog. The breeder has tried to buy her back every time I talk to him and every time we take her into the field to run dogs. 3 of the other pups in the litter will be in S. Dakota as well. And my brother has 2 of the pups in WA he will be trialing. 6 of the 7 pups will be running Derby stakes this fall and winter. It will be fun to see how many of the pups from this litter make AA dogs. Hell. Maybe one of them will even make it to Boneville AR and sit on the podium. It wouldn't be the first time the trainer are using put a dog atop the podium there. And so far, it seems he is pretty impressed with the pups.

Jetjockey guess I was not in the joking mode! Well, when you get my age and pick up the paper and see people you know that are now in the mortuary, it puts a dim light on things for a couple of days.

Now sounds like you got one heck of a litter of pups on the ground. I don't believe I would sell that pup either, unless of course the "price is right".

I have 2 pups now, both females that could certaily go the field trial route, will run one in the derby for sure. Her daddy is "Bingo Buck" 2008 & 2009 national quail champion.

The other female is out of my stud Major ( son of NFC MRT) and bitch Tara, who is daughter of NFC Magnum. I just wish these two young ladies would get along with each other instead of wanting to kill one another........it must be a bloodline thing perhaps.

Sorry to hear that. Ive lost a couple of friends way to early in life and it can ruin a day, even a year, pretty easily.

We will see what happens with our pups. They look good but its still early. There could be 2 maybe 3 AA dogs in the litter, but obviously time will tell. Heck, none of them might make it, but its fun to watch them progress. You don't have to go back very far to find HOF dogs in there pedigree. I think there is going to be 1, maybe 2 more that get inducted to the Brit HOF. The sire is still running and doing pretty well. He's a FC/AFC so far with a couple good years left to run but I don't think he will ever be a NFC, but who knows. Our pups have Beans Blaze, Jim De Bobs Sparks A and D, and Mar-Kar's Jacs A Dan D blood in them. All three of those dogs were NFC's and in the Brit HOF. Theres even more HOF dogs if you wanna keep looking back. On paper they look great, but Ive seen dogs that looked amazing on paper that didn't fair so well in trails. Im excited, but I also know that very few dogs ever make it to the top of the field trail world, even with the best breeding. But I don't care, since I would rather hunt a dog than trial a dog. I dont have the resources to trial a dog myself in the AA circuit, so I have to rely on a trainer/handler. That gets expensive and the dog belongs more to the trainer, then the owner. That is one reason I like NSTRA. Anyone with a decent dog can run NSTRA and its relatively easy to get into. IMO its also more fun, even though you don't get the recognition you get in AA stakes (unless its Nolan's Last Bullet, there is a nice article about Buddy and Clay in the recent Pointing Dog Journal magazine). Buddy has put out some great pups. I get to hunt over them a lot. (btw. Buddy was the 2003 Quail Unlimited National Dog of the Year, his son Beeline Bullets Bravado took second.. Thats pretty amazing IMO and gives you the idea of what some of his pups are like).

The other female is out of my stud Major ( son of NFC MRT) and bitch Tara, who is daughter of NFC Magnum. I just wish these two young ladies would get along with each other instead of wanting to kill one another........it must be a bloodline thing perhaps.

It can get ugle when dogs try to establish dominace. Id be willing to bet they get over it, but not always. How old are they?

Jetjockey this female GSP's are at 8 months right now and running big! However, they are not buddies anymore since the fight last month.

We are going to put them both on the leash and start taking walks with them together just so they know all is ok to be with each other and that they are not incharge of what is going on.

If that does not work out to my satisfaction, I will separate them completely and later put them on a chain gang to get their undivided attention.

Who’s feathers sound ruffled? It’s funny how when some people get pist they spout off lie after lie. 8 handlers in a national NSTRA event. LMAO. Oh and it was on TV. Funny. Maybe it was down to 8 by the 5th or 6th round after 120 dogs were dropped but some people are so pist at life they don’t understand what’s going on around them. Sounds like a guy who couldn’t make the cut in NSTRA, and probably has dogs that couldn’t find a goose in the middle of a corn field in North Dakota and hates the world for it all. Thanks for the entertainment JA.

French Brittany all the way

Thanks for all the replies.

I have never even been to a Trial of any type. I do hunt my dogs over 100 days a year.

The dog in question is another female GSP. Biggest problem is that she hates and tries to kill porqupines. Vet bills are building up.

Her name is Gypsy. She is as hard a charger as any dog, but still over runs birds at times. If there are any birds this year, at three years old, she will get a fine groove on.