Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are Hateful dissenters Worse than Jane Fonda?

If ya can't tell when speaking up supports your military or if it undermines their effort, ya might be a liberal.

.....or a 4 star general. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, I see where IFID has relplied many times on this thread. I wish the ignore feature would remove all evidence of his existence here, like it does on some other forums. He is not someone I want anything to do with.

I actually composed a reply, but it was just mainly a repeat of my earlier post to him on this thread.



So the rest of you know, I have repeatedly turned the other cheek with him. I have tried to settle our differences privately, but he refuses to read my e-mails or PMs. I have repeatedly given him the benefit of the doubt. The time for all that is past. He is afraid of facing me one on one. However, I given the quality of his character, I have no doubt he will continue to insult me behind my back. And THAT speaks much about his true character.

AFP:



Your insistence has all the power of a brain fart, wait, or are they the same? I would never put you on ignore. It is kind of like watching the kids at play. You know they're going to screw up, it's only a matter of when.



Good night, sweet idiot.

Thanks, a very good illustration of my post.

The Gen. thinks it is ok to speak out about bad weapons supplied to our troops.

Jane thinks it is ok to turn over POW's that passed her notes so their families would know they are alive and the POW's get beaten, some to death.

But in your mind they are the same, guess I will truly never understand.

I really resent those who wave the flag, but crap on everything it stands for. Exercising your right to disagree and even condemn leaders who deceive should not be an indictable offense. Hell, people were saying the same thing as AFP about those who first brought Watergate to light. I've seen and heard enough from this administration to know they are no better than some of the graft and deceit-plagued politicians of the past, yet they wrap themselves in the flag, condemn those who disagree, and seek vengence against those who expose them for what they are, all while professing some higher moral grounding than the majority of the American and world public. Put it this way, there wouldn't be an America worth living in if not for the dissenters you condemn so vehemently. Sometimes, given the manner in which we pick (or buy) our leaders, I have my doubts whether we're making progress in spite of our good intentions.

That makes me ask the question - is it the fact that people dissent, or the words and method of their dissent?

I have said before I don't mind dissent - just ask that those who do dissent bring more to the discussion than "Bush is a liar, baby killing pig" (not talking bout people here - just people I have to deal with in the real world).

The above is part of AFP's original post, now deleted, then he edited his "delete" post to the current version.

Frankly, the mental image of AFP "insisting" that I ignore him was so funny that I couldn't help but goad him a bit more, so he could keep stamping his foot. Ignoring him is actually pretty easy but he keeps lauching these not so veiled attacks. For my response to his "insisting" that I ignore him, I apologize to my fellow campfirers for goading him on. Can you hear the stamping of those feets? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Unlike you, AFP, I don't insult people behind their backs, nor do I post private discussions or parts thereof, which is one of the several reasons why I want no private communications with you, now or ever. I choose not to communicate with certain ego types if at all possible. If I choose to insult someone, I do it upfront and where everyone can see it. I never attacked you personally or your veracity regarding those posts where you claimed to have such deep insight into Iraq because of your military experience and intelligence access. You remember, the ones where you said that the non-military critics of the war were "irrelevant". I didn't attack those posts of yours, even though they often flew in the face of common sense and military thinking, because I had no way of knowing what you had actually seen. However, what goes around comes around and now, your area Commander in Chief, has commented on the gist of what was in those intelligence reports as well as his opinion of the effectiveness of the no fly zones. Not surprisingly, they are nearly direct opposites of what you had posted. You should have remembered Joe Friday's dictum.

When I and other posters became "irrelevant" because we didn't know what you knew in your military position, I didn't question your veracity. My mistake. And, Mr. Paranoia, I won't insult you behind your back, I do it in the open. Nor do I run to Rick Bin, complaining that my tender feelings have been hurt.

BTW, "afraid of you." It is to laugh.

And, Rick, he leaves me alone, I'll leave him alone. He posts BS as he is wont to do, I'm going to prove it wrong, as I am wont to do.

IIFID:

It seems to me the last time you were supposed to prove somebody wrong, you blinked, to our collective detriment.

AFP and IIFID:

Do you realize how this is making you both look? How about dropping the whole, thing, putting each other on ignore, and moving on.

Quit pissing on the fire.

Rick

Rick:



Faulty memory, is it catching? I didn't blink. In that thread, I said early on in the bet, there was no bet unless DFC paid for 1/2 of the legal expenses up front. He didn't, and, never intended to, so future discussions ad nauseum were pointless. Now, if you'd like to bet, head up, man to man any amount that you'd like on the sale of the coin in question, just post it right here and we won't involve any lawyers. I trust your word. Name your price.

Never thought you hadn't, have full and complete confidence to this moment that you did. There is no question in my mind, and never has been. Just pointing out that despite our both agreeing that you held the key to end one of the nastiest flame wars ever on this website, and take the wind out of a blowhard's sails, you didn't, and we had to suffer an emboldened fool for months thereafter, not to speak of the thread that wouldn't die.

It's your business as to why you didn't. Fine. But it's my business that I had to clean up the mess.

I see the same thing happening again. Talk the issues all you want. I'm fine with that. But the personal stuff is now way over the edge, and I am asking both of you to cool it. You two obviously should not talk politics. It is not Must See TV.

If you feel a strong need to continue interacting, then do it via PM, or via email, or on the phone, or have tea together, but you are now urinating on the Campfire on a regular basis, and it stinks.

I never thought it would happen between two respected members such as yourselves, but it did, so now let's just cauterize it and move on, for everyone's sake.

Rick

It was a bet. There was no money EVER put up by anyone that wanted to prove me wrong. That is why I didn't post proof (well, actually I did but not documents, mostly because I couldn't find them at that time, hadn't done my taxes yet) and why I'm not going to today. I said it, it was true, and if someone wanted or wants to prove me a liar they can pay the piper. The few people on here who really know me knew it was true and I believe you when you say you believed it as well. The rest of them can believe what they want, or pay me off.

The "mess" got you thousands of hits. But you don't have to thank me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Please let me worry about how to generate traffic, 'kay. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I hope I'm right in considering this a closed issue.

Rick

Thank you RickBin! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Well - seeing as I am part of this particular thread - If I have pizzed on this particular fire - I apologize. I meant no malicious harm, just conversation.



As with any public forums - topics get discussed that can be and are fairly emotional to the people present, I admit I have let my emotions get the best of me. I will take my own advice and "think b4 I post" a little more rather than blast off a reaction to something I have read.



Another bit of advice : Stay out of any thread that has the word "union" in it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Rick:




It will be closed shortly.

I tell you what Rick, it seems your little campfire empire has gone to your head or you've been in California too long and think every one should hold hands and sing, "We are the World" in harmony. It used to be that 2 members could argue all they wanted to as long as they weren't profane. I can go back and cite numerous instances of that occurring. But now, I'm pissing in the campfire when I argue with AFP by pointing out that his Commanding officer didn't see it the same way he reported it after he calls those of us who "hatefully" dissent Jane Fondas. Oh sure, that's fair. I guess AFP can claim victory, the whining azzhole. This place has become far too politically correct for me. It has been fun. Goodbye.

Charlie:



I don't know what the hell is driving you to be so emotional, but whatever it is, it's clouding your judgment.









I see I got on your $h!tlist awful fast!



Don't you think you're overreacting? I'd expect a response like that if I was pulling plugs on threads, or jumping in early. But step into an obvious flame war that has been going on and on with no end in sight, where the situation is going nowhere but down, ask both parties politely to cool it, and all of a sudden analogies to dictators and empires fly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />



It seems to me there was a time when you would have agreed that a flame war for flame's sake was better done in private, if at all.









I never said only you were pissing in the Campfire. AFP was asked to stow his pecker as well. I am well aware that it takes two to tango.







Victory? Doesn't seem to me anyone wins a juvenile flame war.



As to the political correctness around here, or lack thereof, nothing's changed. Same as it ever was. It's you that's changed. Nobody has even hinted that you should refrain from expressing your political views. You've aired them quite profusely for months now for all to see, with nary a word from me, as far as that goes. Moreover, there are plenty of members, some very longstanding, with whom I share very little in terms of political views, but they are free to express their opinions. Ask Barak if he feels stymied. Rickg? Skinner?



The issue has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the ratcheting up of piss and vinegar. You know exactly what I mean.



You may be mad at me Charlie, but I hope when you cool off you'll see it from my perspective. You guys obviously are incapable of ending this on good terms yourselves. This situation has gone from uneasy, to bad, to worse, and is on the verge of an all out flame-a-thon. If someone doesn't step in and break you two up, this will end up just like that stupid flame war you had with DFC. If you don't mind too much, I and most others would like to avoid a repeat of that low point.



Your status around here is unchanged, as far as I'm concerned. Your account remains in good standing. I still like you and respect you, even if I disagree with you on your politics.



I just want the flame war between you and AFP to stop, and you guys sure as hell weren't going to do it yourselves.



Rick

Rick,

I want to engage in polite but pointed discussion about controversial topics. I want to hear viewpoints different from mine. This was the purpose of this thread. I will continue to engage such topics in this manner. Much good comes from it.

As to IFID, all I want is for him to leave me alone. I want absolutely no further interaction with him or anyone like him.

I will keep him on ignore. Please let me know if the old IFID ever comes back.

Blaine

Rick,

My bit of advice on the UNION label seems to be comming true ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

After seeing the responses by IIFID and AFP I reitterate my appology.

No need to apologize, teal, or anyone else. These things happen, especially with certain topics, as you've correctly pointed out.

Maybe if I would have stepped in sooner, or somehow we could have broken these guys up, IIFID and AFP's relationship wouldn't have deteriorated to the point where neither wants anything to do with the other.

For a long time, it wasn't that way between them. They both go back a long way around here.

It's a shame.

Rick