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Lets use 7mm and 30 cal bullets at a mv of 2600-2800fps weighing 150-180 grains.. The game is deer and pigs to around 200yds max. What are the pros and cons of each bullet, providing both shot the same accuracy wise? thanks, capt david
"It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds.
If you are a hunter, and farther than that, get closer!
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Likely nothing of any significance. It will depend more on what brand and construction of bullet you shoot than it will on whether they are round nose or spitzer point -- given the parameters you specify.
I've shot game with 250 gr RN's out of my .35 Whelen at quite a bit beyond 200 yards...
Dennis
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I know a lot of fella's that use 180 gr. core lokt roundnose in 30-06 and 308. No complaints yet.
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I know a lot of fella's that use 180 gr. core lokt roundnose in 30-06 and 308. No complaints yet. My Dad used 180 gn Banana Peels for the longest time. Then, I think, they went under or something. He switched to 180 Hornady RN's and killed a bunch of game with that round. When I started hunting with his rifle, I used the same thing. I never had a problem. They shot great out of that rifle. My brother went to 150 gn RN's in the 30-06 and still does great with those.
Steve
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I have noticed that game shot with RN bullets seem to react a bit quicker - or more violently - than those shot with spire points.
It is not a lot - and maybe mostly in my imaginations - but a number of African PH's tell me that they have seen the same thing.
Maybe the same physics that causes RN bullets to loose velocity in air more rapidly also causes them to dump more energy quicker in game?
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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RNs had a reputation as surer killers back when bullet technology was in its infancy and spitzers could not be counted on to expand reliably every time and high velocity played heck with all jacketed bullets.
The early 20th century reliable killers all had common characteristics....long high SD round nose bullets and velocities around 2400-2500. The list is long...175 7mm, 220s in the Krag and '06, 215s in the 303, 160s in 6.5, 300 grain .375s....and the results were pretty much the same whether the game was here, in Europe, India or Africa.
Those early failures with pointed bullets were what put Elmer off of smaller calibers when he tried them in the 20s and 30s, and the attitude made sense given what they had to work with.
But with modern high performance bonded or monolithic bullets, the SD doesn't matter nearly as much for penetration, and both RNs and spitzers expand reliably, and so the issue is pretty much moot IMHO. The trajectory difference is really insignificant at the ranges where the vast majority of game is shot, so just shoot whatever runs your motor.
I still shoot 175 RNs sometimes in my 7 x57 just because they look cool and always shoot through a deer. But I know a 140 partition will do just as well, and usually use it if a longer shot might present itself.
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Ballistic wise,you are not going to see a big differnce at 200 yards.Probably not at 300..
I use RN because I like the heavy for caliber bullets and the RN is usually the heaviest you can get.
I do not have any hard evidence or studies to quote,but the 220 gr RN I use i nmy .06 sure thumps the elk
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Sometimes one particular bullet just plain shoots better in a particular rifle or particular type of rifle.If you find such a bullet for whatever rifle you prefer,you should use it no matter what nose shape it has.
Unfortunately it is long out of production,but Hornady used to make an 8mm 150RN that was extremely accurate in surplus 8x57 surplus Mausers and sporters made from same using the original military barrels.It was very effective on deer and helped me win a number of turkey shoots a couple of decades ago.
It shaded the various Spire Point and Spitzer bullets then available in any weight for the 8x57 at the time,by a noticeable margin.
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At 200 yards under the conditions specified, it makes no difference. Beyond 300 the spire point wins. Ive never hit anything with a 180 grain Nosler Partition spire point that didn't give good results, provided it was hit well. For this reason I see no purpose in using round noses unless you use 220 grain bullets or something.
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Several years a ago I killed two elk within 2 minutes of each other using 220 gr RN , 30-.06. A 5 pt bull and a cow at 347 yds,lasered with with a Lieca 1200. I'd wager that most peopel have never shot a RN at any distance ,and just base what they say as to what them glean from ballistic tables
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Having shot both configurations I can't say I've noticed any difference within 200 yards. Though I had some 180 rn in .30 cal I used in an 06' a few years ago and they proved very accurate I mainly shoot spire point bullets. Construction of the bullets is key and don't fall into the trap of round nose being better in brush.
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It is my impression with cup and core bullets that the diameter of the copper opening near tip of bullet is what starts the expansion, round nose designs usually have a wider copper opening diameter and should start expanding faster.
Last edited by StrayDog; 04/08/09.
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I shoot the 200gr RN Corelokt out of my .358 because it shoots .5 inch groups at 2520 fps. The Hornady 200gr SP at .8 inch which isn't bad either at 2500 fps. That big meplat of the the roundnose and flat point bullets makes a pretty good-sledge hammer-impression when it makes contact with fur/skin/bones.
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I'd wager that most peopel have never shot a RN at any distance ,and just base what they say as to what them glean from ballistic tables Brian Pearce did an article on this comparing 150gr bullets out of a 30-30. They were MUCH closer than I would have suspected. Definitely close enough not to matter which one you used for hunting.
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I worked up a load using the old Speer 170 grain 270 bullets in a Sako Finnlight. The accuracy was as good or better than most other bullets. ![[Linked Image]](http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/corjack/002-5.jpg)
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RNs had a reputation as surer killers back when bullet technology was in its infancy and spitzers could not be counted on to expand reliably every time and high velocity played heck with all jacketed bullets.
The early 20th century reliable killers all had common characteristics....long high SD round nose bullets and velocities around 2400-2500. The list is long...175 7mm, 220s in the Krag and '06, 215s in the 303, 160s in 6.5, 300 grain .375s....and the results were pretty much the same whether the game was here, in Europe, India or Africa.
Those early failures with pointed bullets were what put Elmer off of smaller calibers when he tried them in the 20s and 30s, and the attitude made sense given what they had to work with.
But with modern high performance bonded or monolithic bullets, the SD doesn't matter nearly as much for penetration, and both RNs and spitzers expand reliably, and so the issue is pretty much moot IMHO. The trajectory difference is really insignificant at the ranges where the vast majority of game is shot, so just shoot whatever runs your motor.
I still shoot 175 RNs sometimes in my 7 x57 just because they look cool and always shoot through a deer. But I know a 140 partition will do just as well, and usually use it if a longer shot might present itself. Well put Steve
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