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Gents,

I have never owned a dog, so I have a few questions. I want to get a yellow lab puppy. What are the biggest differences between a male and female dog. (besides the obvious reproductive roles) Do females make good gun dogs? Easy to train? Thanks.

FWIW - My father has a male yellow lab- best bird dog we ever owned - thats after 2 english setters.

My father hunts the dog a lot and for the most part it gets along with the other dogs in our group (4 of them) there is only 1 female of the group (all yellow labs) she seems to be ok with the group but ANY other dog and she gets into a fightin mood.

Our English was like that too - she would fight with any and all dogs - really didn't work for us so we sold her to a solo hunter.

I don't know if all females are like this but it has been our expirence that they just seem a little more high strung. Then a gain our lab really is one of the guys, farts and such. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You can not go wrong with a yellow lab tho - EXCELLENT family dog.

He would watch my son like a hawk - got mad when I would change him - thought I was buggin my son. My son doesn't even live with the dog!!

Master Bonzi,

Labs are great dogs for the experienced and inexperienced alike, so you would be starting off on the right foot (paw?). Labs can be quite headstrong and can challenge the trainer. This will work both for and against your lack of experience with dogs � you will make mistakes but labs are very forgiving of mistakes. If you make a mistake with a high-strung setter it might hide under the porch for a week. A lab will buddy up 10-seconds after you swat it.

All dogs have different personalities and there can be less difference between a male and female than between two males or two females. The variation in personalities can be extreme. That said, there are a number of sweeping generalities to compare:

Females will fight both sexes; males will generally only fight other males.

Males will tend to roam more. Males that catch wind of a female in heat will be GONE.

Males are more easily distracted from the task at hand, but being bigger and stronger will generally out work a female. Testosterone plays a role here too.

Males are more territorial and protective of you and your house. Females sometimes actually adopt you or your children as her litter and can really be bad news. This also means the female considers herself Alpha in your house, which doesn�t say much for your training progress.

Females are more affectionate.

Females are more attentive and easier to yard (obedience) train.

Especially with labs, the size difference can be surprising. I�ve seen 45-lb females and 140-lb males.

I don�t spay or neuter my dogs for breeding reasons, but there are many good reasons to do so There are also many good reasons not to. Females are spayed, which involves removing the uterus and ovaries. Males are neutered, which involves removing the testicles.

If you choose not to spay a female she will go into heat 2-3 times a year. Man, this is not entertaining.

In many ways females are easy to deal with and train, but there is something special about a barrel-chested and testosterone fueled male really putting the hunt on.

Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna order me up a male pup from here My friend is coming up from college and she will be able to deliver him.

Master Bonzi,



Another thing to consider is buying a "started dog" (or a "finished dog" for a lot of dough). A typical started lab will be yard trained, house broken, force retrieve, and steady to shot. The complete list will depend on the breeder/trainer and what you're willing to pay for. "Starting" fees generally run $500-$1,000. A finished dog can cost thousands.



A started dog will have a lot of bugs left in the training, but it can be a great start. Most started dogs are 6-10 months old so you also miss the chewing phase and lots of other puppy hassles.



If the breeder doesn't start dogs they can probably recommend somebody.



Here's a little more info on Started Dogs. The definition of "started" to these guys is quite advanced, hence the money.

The chewing phase. OMG I had almost forgotten about the chewing phase. My lab (now 18months and 110 lbs of muscle) could destroy one of those "Kong" chewing toys in about 3 hours when he was a pup. My only complaint is that he tends to pounce into the thickets whenever he gets wind of something. Not so much a problem cause I bought him for retrieving and not bird/rabbit hunting. The only difference in training him and my fathers female was that my male seemed to goof around alot and took a little longer to get things right.

Ours went thru that as well- was sick - blood from the mouth - rush him in. Doc says you want a dog or this dog? Old man says this one (I think he paid 900 for him as a pup and only had him 3 months when this started) well a couple of k later dogs ok - had chewed and eaten a stick, some string and something else unidentifiable - cut up his intestines and stomach- Doc said we saved his life by about an hr.

We kept a pretty close eye on him a long time after that.

BTW our friend had a similar dog - one day the dogs howlin so he rushes out to see - the dog ate a sock (one with a knot in it as a toy) and was in the process of "passing" it whole. Poor dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

String can be really be tough on dogs. The string can wind its way through the intestines and saw through the wall as the intestines move. Or, the intestines can collapse like a purse string if one end hangs up. Sometimes one end of the string will hang out of the dog's rear - don't pull on it as that can cause the same problems. If your cat likes to play with a ball of string in the vicinity of the dog - shoot the cat. It would probably make sense to hide the string too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.



Trivia: The behavior of eating non-food items is called "pica".



A buddy's dog ate the screen off a screen door. That cost a couple grand. My brother's lab chewed the legs off six dining room chairs in one night. My dog sawed the tops off a new pair of leather boots (I had a shoemaker convert them to "low-tops" but something was lost in translation - I threw them out). Another buddy's dog started out chewing an electrical outlet off the wall but had much more fun pulling off a long section of sheetrock...



Some of you guys with daughters might remember "Jells" - the neon colored plastic shoes. A co-worker's dog swallowed and passed the shoe whole. He washed the shoe and gave it back to his daughter.

I have a male yellow lab myself. After many different breads labs are the only dogs I will own. He is one tough hunting dog. Never skips a beat and is always doing his job! Have had females and will not do that again. If you do not spay them you will have fun with them going into heat. If you do spay them they tend to get fat and lazy. Both my hunting dogs are neutered and are great!! Personally I would think twice about ordering a dog with out seeing it. I have learned that being around them when they are young can tell you alot about there temperment and attitude which is very important in hunting dogs!!!! Good luck with your new dog.

rc82bttb,

I hear ya - ordering a dog sight unseen can be hard to do. The key is dealing with a breeder you trust. We've been fortunate to be able to buy dogs out of the same bloodline from the same breeders for almost 25-years.

Professional dog breeders know more about dogs than most folks. They can twist up a dog meeting your specifications like a gunsmith can twist up a rifle. Also, buying a started dog gives you a much better look at the dog's potential than buying a puppy does. Within the scope of the breed, a well-bred dog will be able to do anything you want.

A first dog is almost as tough a proposition as the
first wife.

Some basic advice from my past mistakes follows..

Look at the Mother! Or in this case, both parents to see what
their temperaments are like and if they will fit your situation.
Labs are great across the spectrum but some have been bred
w/o attention to nasty dispositions for a specific look or
purpose. There are so many Labs out there, the incidence of bad dog
syndrome is not all that uncommon. A really bad Lab is a really
bad problem!

Learn how to work together early. The first weeks and months
will not produce a lot of visible effects but it is the bedrock
to build later training on. You are teaching the dog how to learn
not necessarily specific tasks that they must learn flawlessy at
this stage.

Don't let them go wrong. Stop bad habits by diverting them to
acceptable and enjoyable activity, by firm corrections, or removing
them entirely from the temptation. If you let an ugly trait
go it will imprint quickly and be hard to reverse.

A dog worth having IMO will fight you a little to see who
is boss. My best ever Lab, til she checked out, regularly tried
to stare me down. Don't blink or look away first or the dominance
wars will be on big time. But it is a measure of a dog's spirit.

Labs will eat themselves into hippo shape and it is bad for their
hips and long term health -- as it is for us. You can control how
fit the dog will be by monitoring its 'look' and using minor
feeding changes to tone it.

Separation from you is a powerful punishment for most Labs and
being with you should be fun, and rewarding. Don't stick a
new puppy in the basement all night and get mad when he/she
howls. He is looking for for someone to bond with and will be
happy in a crate near you.

Never spoil them. yeah, sure...

Good luck,
1B

JOG Stated:



A started dog will have a lot of bugs left in the training, but it can be a great start. Most started dogs are 6-10 months old so you also miss the chewing phase and lots of other puppy hassles.



All I can say is every lab I have ever owned was not out of the chewing stage after 10 months. I still have some patio furniture left for proof that a 21 month old lab will still chew. I love labs dont get me wrong, mine gets ran every day but didnt stop chewing till almost 24 months. To me having the "puppy hassles" are all part of it. Getting a dog from the beginning and seeing him progress is what its all about. Just dont get to engrossed with the discipline when the dog screws up. This is my 3rd lab and probably the best but its mainly because I have grown as a master. I am satsified with my dogs where most folks would not be. In that I mean...if the dog leaves the bed of the truck and is by my side, sits while I sit, goes and fetches the bird after the shot and delivers it to me I am happy. Way too many times I have been on great hunts with other dog handlers who had their day in the field ruined because they got too tied up in the moment when their dog did something wrong and wasnt the most impressive in the field that day. You will have good days and bad days just like your dog will. Its a good thing my hunting lab cant talk on my bad days when those slow incoming doves floating a slow breeze manage to evade three quick shots from the Model 12. I cant count the times I have apoligized to him for missing those easy shots, he just looks up at me with those big brown eyes as if to be thinking...."keep your eye on the bird and follow through on the next one!"



Keep it simple and have fun!

Very true JOG!!! If you can find a good breader then that helps a lot. I personally want to take a look for my own eyes not having delte with any distant breeders. Guess you take a chance once with a breeder and if they do good for you you can go back. Sounds like you have had a great experience with breeders:)

I know what your saying about bad dogs ruining good trips. I went to see a buddy in Orygun a few months ago. He had never caught a steelhead despite years of effort. We went to the Umpqua and I had him into a big steelhead within the first 10 minutes. It was the greatest moment he had in years. Just as I was about to snap the picture, his dog ran into the scene and knocked the fish out of his hands, hooked himself in the paw, and knocked my friend halfway into the river... I just about died laughing but he was pissed! We got one fuzzy picture of the incident and a hooked dog..........

I should be getting my yellow lab in a few weeks. I would consider my friends who are picking up my pup to be "experts" and I trust them to get me a good one. I'd go get it myself, but I can't justify spending the $500 for a plane ticket.

Pictures will follow of course...

Heck yeah, you better let us see this new pup <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Good luck with your Lab, it does not get any better then that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />