Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 356 Win for elk?

What is your opinion on this cartridge? With a 220 gr Speer at 2350 fps how do you predict it would do on elk? What would you consider max range?

Thank you for any input.

I've seen elk killed with much less, that lever gun should make a good woods cartridge.

anyone else?

I would not hesitate to use it at all.Probably by 200 yds, it has lost a lot of steam though.I shoot a 220 gr out of my .06 and it isn't going more than 2400fps I bet.I have killed elk with it out past 300 yds.I would not do it every day,but conditions were right.

I think it is a shame it didn't get accepted well. It is an excellent design.

With a a 220 grain Speer at 2350 it is foing about what my Whelen is doing with a 225 at 100yards. Plenty for elk.

With a a 3.5 in high zero at 100 yards it should be good to 225 yards without any hold over.

An exciting possibility for this round is the Hornady Flex Tip bullets that have better BC's resulting in less drop at longer ranges. I do not know if Hornady made them tough enough for elk. You could e-mail them. They are pretty honest.

Plenty for elk but a relatively short-range cartridge. It will drop below 2000fps at about 130 yards. 1500fpe and 1752fps at 230 yards.

Not sure what velocity is needed to ensure expansion with that bullet but I wouldn't want to go any lower than that and would prefer faster.

If it can do it at 150-175 yards I would be happy.

It should work well out to 200 yds and i would use the 220gr Speer, put the bullet in the right spot and you'll have a dead elk.

I think I might be having seller's remorse with the 356 in the classified.

Think of all the elk killed with 30-30's, .32 Win Spcl and other mundane cartridges. The .356 would have been big medicine for elk a hundred years ago.

Keep the distance reasonable and put the bullet where it belongs - you won't have any problems.

Pull the ad and keep it. I wouldn't consider selling mine, my kids can deal with it after I'm gone. I don't think any more of these will ever roll off the line again.

I have hunted elk with mine but never harvested an elk with it. I have shot several MN large bodied whitetails with the 220 gr Speer and it is almost too much bullet for them. I expect they would work great on elk out to about 200 yards. A couple years ago I dropped a 225 pound pig with that bullet at over 200 yards using a peep sight. Broke it's back and DRT. Drop was less than expected. Mine would be one of the last rifles I would ever sell.

I used my win 94 .356 with your load for one calf moose. Range was exactly 250 long steps. One shot went through the diaphragm, cut one lung and hit the liver. Next shot went through the hump and spine, and dropped him. Both bullets exited. Expansion seemed reasonable, but wound channels were not large. The two elk shot with that rifle were with the 250 gr. factory loads, both were close shots and both dropped to spine shots.
I liked the cartridge, but did not care so much for the rifle, so I sold mine.

I stopped using the 358 Win on caribou as the bullet expansion at 200 yards+ was poor. Penetration was always great but in truth the 308 Win killed faster, especially past 150 yards. Very disappointed in it and I used it a lot. The 356 would be similar. A Savage 99 in 308 with Spitzers would be a much better all rounder.

To me 35 starts at Whelan or Rem Magnum country. I sold my 358 and haven't missed it at all.

+1 on that.

Especially with factory loads the 308 shooting 180's will out perform the 358 shooting 200's. I'd take a 308 shooting nosler partitions at 2700-2800fps over anything the 358 can spit out especially on any shot over 100 yards.

But having said all of that if you have a 356, it should do a fine job on elk for you out to 200 yards. Inside of 100...it will knock em as dead as anything.

It certainly isn't a long range caribou gun...if you want to shoot caribou up on the tundra...get you some kind of 7mm mag.

There is a guy on Marlin Owner gunboards that did a huge test of bullets loaded hot in the 35 REM, which is fairly close to the 356 when loaded to equal pressure. In Part 1 he concluded that the 200 REM CL was the bullet of choice. In Part 2 he tested the 220 Speer. It expanded some at 200 yards when started at 2200 ft/sec and ought to be a good choice for the caliber. I'd still like more positive expansion but it ought to work. Based on his study I might stick with the 200 CL's. They seem to work rather well.

Here's the link to Part 2

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,43257.0.html

Here is my own smaller study on 35's spanning from 1992-2007.

http://www.35cal.com/35bullet_study/35bullet_study1.html

John Barsness, aka mule deer wrote an article on the .358win and handloads he was getting 2,750fps out of a Ruger hawkeye, with 22" barrel and he feels he could have gotten 2,800fps with 200gr bullets and not excessive pressure. He was using Ramshot TAC and magnum primers. The 358win is notoriously downloaded, just compare it to the 338 federal, or 308 win, both the same case but much higher pressures and velocities for the same given bullet weights. At those velocities the 358win would have worked much better, its a shame that you have never truly experienced the great little 358.

What bullets were you using and at what MV?

In the anemic factory load it probably will. Not when it's loaded to what it should be. A 200 grn TSX at 2750 fps, 225 at 2550 or a 250 at 2400 isn't anything to sneeze at

Well even at 350 Rem Mag velocities I found the .308 a better killer on caribou sized game. Expansion of 308 bullets is more positive. That's why I did the testing. I used the 358 for two years and harvested 10 caribou and many many seals. The factory loaded silvertips were pretty good. 200 Hornady and Rem spitzers were slow expanders. My speeds were in the 2550ft/sec range, just like factory ammo. I also experimented with 220 Speers, (small wound channels) and 250 Speers (pretty good to 150-200 yards or so).

Bigger game changes things up a bit. I would say that I agree on the publics yawn when it comes to the .358 Win but I was very exited when I first got it. The poor expansion of bullets did make it my favourite Arctic Hare gun and I have a picture here somewhere of me with several dozen head shot Hares and my 358. The fellow I bought it from reported cases only lasting 2-3 shots as he was using Speer Data from the old Manual #3 days. I took a more sedate approach.

As for getting 2800ft/sec with 200 grain bullets from a 358 I'd want to see those loads pressure tested. I'll admit that I never chase the pressure curve and up my powder capacity before chasing the last 100ft/sec. I am happy when I get 2800 out of my 358 Rem Mag with a fair bit more usable case capacity. It's important to note that I also used moderate loads in the .308 and 150 Hornady's at 2600 from a .308 expand a lot better than 200 grain .358's at the same speed.

In any event you aren't going to get these sorts of speeds in a properly loaded ,356 and the slow expansion of most 35 bullets at moderate speeds still limit the long range killing power of the round. Spitzer bullets are mostly built for more speed, roundnoses that expand don't hold on to velocity. I wasn't completely happy with the 35 until I moved up to the Norma Magnum. Now I have two and wouldn't trade them for anything.