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Can someone in the "Know" explain what advantages the extremely high end $400 to $600 dollar bottom metal provides over say bottom metal in the $150 dollar range???



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Thanks, am looking...


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If I were building something today, I would go with the Williams unit myself. I have a Sunny Hill BM unit on a 700, but it came with the rifle from their Custom Shop.

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It's kind of like comparing a Rolex to a Timex. They both tell time. Some clients like to know that every surface has been carefully polished even those you don't see when the rifle is assembled. Here's what a $500 bill can do to an 09 Argentine assembly when there's a bunch of tig welding and clean up to be done.
[Linked Image]


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It will reduce your groups by 50%. Meaning you'll shoot 50% less not being able to afford as much ammo. Call it Obama bottom metal.


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Originally Posted by JRGunmaker
It's kind of like comparing a Rolex to a Timex. They both tell time. Some clients like to know that every surface has been carefully polished even those you don't see when the rifle is assembled. Here's what a $500 bill can do to an 09 Argentine assembly when there's a bunch of tig welding and clean up to be done.
[Linked Image]


That's some beautiful work!

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If you have to ask, you likely don't care about the answer. The truly expensive bottom metal is not just the floorplate, but also a properly proportioned and finished magazine box that, for rifles that must feed each round, each time, are essential. Also, the quality of the metal to metal fit, floorplate release system and overall fit on a Sunny Hill, Blackburn, or Sound Metal Products unit will be far and away better than anything put out by the factory, especially after they're properly finished. You're not paying $300 for a warmed over Remington floorplate. Unless you're buying a Badger unit crazy

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Thanks Huntr for the kind words

Another way to think about it is what kind of beer do you drink. Or which brand of tools do you have in your shop. There's many ways to spend less money but to some having the perfect custom rifle built is much more important than bragging about getting a "better" deal on floormetal. I'm not picking on anyone else's product here. There's no reason to. Most things are sold for a price that supports the time and materials to build it. An engraver once told me a good way to load the question is to say, "You don't want to look like you ran out of money when you paid for the detail work. Do you?" A certain amount of pride goes into going the extra mile for the clients who truly appreciate it. Their cash helped support someone willing to do their best on the project. All without a government stimulus.

I would like to know what kind of beers in the fridge or tools in the shop or bullets in the reloading room there are for those who give others the impression that someone got $cr---d if they pay more than X amount for well..just about anything. There's a place and a market for products on either end of the spectrum.

Here's another spendy floormetal. IMHO worth every penny.
[Linked Image]


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I like cheap beer and expensive watches. I wonder what that say's about me? HA!

Nice work James.

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If I am going to build a custom rifle then I want all the bells and whistles, then if I ever want to sell it I will get top dollar..If you cut the corners on a custom job it will resell for 50 cents on the dollar, and I mean if you cut just one cornor.

A proper big bore for instance with quarter rib, 3 leaf sight, custom bottom metal, barrel band swivel, barrel band front sight, custom trigger, M-70 safety, control feed, Talley bolt 4 panal engraved, top of the line barrel and surface ground action with double square bridges, exhibition European walnut with leather covered recoil pad and 46 LPI or finer perhaps will cost you a bundle but it will also increase in value dramatically over the years, even with some hard use.

The cheap bottom metal gun, etc. etc, is not an investment and it devalues the minute you fire the first shot through it. Unless it becomes a collector for some reason your up the proverbial creek on resale..

At least that has been my experience over the last 65 plus years that I been messing with these things.

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Originally Posted by TC1
I like cheap beer and expensive watches.


You know what they say about cheap beer. Quantity has a quality all it's own.[Linked Image]

One of the great things about this country is we have many choices in where we want to spend our money. If someone spends $100 on a floormetal that's by choice. Or if someone else spends $500 on floormetal that's also by choice. When others outside of the transaction start turning it in to a class warfare thing I just don't understand the reasoning behind it.

When I sold parts at a speed shop years ago we were told that if the customer asked for the low ball item then we should "do them the favor" by handing them both the low$ and high$ one. Then they could make an informed choice by comparing the two. I was surprised at how many were lured by heavy advertisement into the shop looking for a low$ part and ended up leaving with a more expensive model when presented with a choice. Not because they were belittled into thinking they were too cheap by wanting the lower $ one. But by being able to see a variety of items that would suit their needs and making their own mind up based on where they thought their money was well spent.

The question at the top of this thread has too little information to offer much info. What action? What cartridge? SS or blued steel?

The Williams floormetal is inexpensive. At one point they didn't have any inletting draft. From what I gather that is how Winchester ordered it. As a stockmaker, I would charge a customer to file the proper draft on it before inletting it into his spendy English Walnut blank. Some of the Sunny Hill stuff needs draft filed behind the mag box. Unless the smith and client don't care about minor gaps. I'm not sure if Williams stuff still doesn't have any draft. In a drop in application for a plastic stock or factory stock the lack of draft wouldn't be a problem. So the money spent for the extra operation of putting draft on it might not be necessary.

choices choices so many choices.


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I have this incredible attraction to Formula 1 engines; they rev up to 12,000 rpm like swiss watches, so smooth...
Same with rifles, with every part just like TC1 does them.
Guys like James Anderson make that happen.


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Thanks Don
The most important part of making it happen is the customer willing to pay for it in the first place. Also the many smiths current & late here in the USA who have paved the way by producing most of the worlds best quality bolt actions. I'm just lucky enough to "monkey see monkey do" and glean what I can from those who've done it before me.

There's an important place for all the different floormetals being made or spiffed up today.
Williams
Sunny Hill
Sound Metal Products -Wiebe
Badger Ordnance
Blackburn

And many others

There's some action & cartridge combos that are only available from a few vendors. The time it takes to R&D a short run of parts unavailable anywhere else should reflect in the price.



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Is Williams bottom metal considered cheap? I have one, I feel it is of top quality. I did not buy it for cost but quality. It is on my SS .300 win mag. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about them. I always considered them as top tier as all the rest.

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Calling his floormetal cheap would be considered an insult. Wouldn't you think? I would call them very competitively priced. Would you consider a WinM70 as top tier as a Dakota 76? Williams has built thousands of floormetals for Winchester and they were happy with the product and price. If the customer is happy that's all that matters. Williams offers vibratory polishing as a standard and hand polishing as an upgrade. The time spent polishing and the methods used determine the level of finish as well as the price of the product. On his website Williams offers an upgrade "polished and blued" for $34. And for $34 I don't think the level of polish would match what can be attained spending most of a day trying to do the best possible job on every surface. It's not even a fair comparison.

Many of the expensive floormetals have an integral magazine box and this makes machining take much more time. Some are one piece and some have the bow welded on. Jerry Fisher sells a round bottom for Mausers that takes more machine work and commands a higher price. Blackburn has a copywrite on his shape and many customers are happy to pay for them. The subtle differences in shape between the various floormetals also provides a market for different vendors.

In the end most of it comes down to Time = $.


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Unless it is a wooden show rifle, with custom engraving, I cannot ever see spending $150 or more on a triggerguard, and floorplate. Maybe if it was titanium, and I was trying to build the lightest possible rifle...

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Everything has it's place.



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Originally Posted by DMB
I have this incredible attraction to Formula 1 engines; they rev up to 12,000 rpm like swiss watches, so smooth...


F1 Engines rev up to 18,000 rpm grin A couple years ago, they were limited to 19,000 rpm, but now they are required to rev no more and 18K and must last two races.

I have Burgess bottom metal on my Echols Legend.
I have Williams bottom metal on 2 of the rifles that Mark Penrod built.
I have factory 3 piece metal on a couple of bone stock M70s.

There is a huge difference in quality. You do indeed get what you pay for.

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I have Badger M4 bottom metal and Williams and for the price difference, I prefer the Williams. Badger had no radiused edges and commands a premium price. It's solid but so is the Williams model. Either one is heads and shoulders better than the pot metal Remingtons come with. PTG bottom metal is another option that looks nice but have no experience with it.

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