Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats What advantage is $600 dollar BOTTOM METAL over $150 dollar bottom metal?

I never called them cheap. I think they are very nice. I did not mean to insult anyone. I just got the impression that some people were saying this, that was my question. I just think my Williams bottom metal is top notch.

He never said you called them anything. Nothing he wrote was even in reference to you. It was all about the products. Read it again, this time in a non defensive mode.

I never said he did. I just did not want anyone thinking I did. I am not in defense mode I just wanted to make myself clear. I appreciate the feedback he gave me. I am sorry if I upset anyone with what I wrote.

I guess I was trying to say in a polite way that if you've never had a Burgess or similar floormetal then you don't know what you're missing. Please understand that I'm not trying to say in any way that what you have is not worth having. It is obviously worth the money you spent because you are very happy with it.

There is a moderator on another forum that flies off the handle any time a Dakota rifle is mentioned and he basically states that anyone who bought a Dakota is stupid for wasting his/her money and a factory M70 should have been bought instead. It just seams like a petty class envy thing.

I think those interested in custom rifles should subscribe to more of a class appreciation theory and not get pressured into thinking the rifles they currently have or build are the only ones worth spending money on. When I started gunsmithing school I was tickled that I might learn to build a rifle stock that was as pretty as a factory REM 700 BDL. At that time I thought the BDL stock was the cat's @$$. You know all those white line spacers and cool pressed checkering. I didn't know that there were many other classes of rifles and had no way of appreciating them. Now I do but don't have the attitude that the BDL is cheap junk. I think it serves its purpose very well and there's no reason to berate it.

As Terry and many others can attest, the more you study fine rifles and the more in depth posts like ForrestB's Rigby that show the detail and dedication of both customer and gunmaker, the more the bug starts biting.

I can think of worse things to be bitten by.

Does Burgess make a stainless model? Do the have a web site? How does Blackburn compare? Thanks for the info.

Burgess has gone to the happy hunting ground. I believe he was in in late 80s when he made my bottom metal. I don't believe Blackburn compares but they are nice indeed.

The Williams unit must be a pretty good starting point cause I believe Echols uses them on the Legend. Not sure how much he has to modify them though.

James,
I just wanted to say that your posts are excellent and should be what everyone aspires to. You are informational and cast no stones at anyone or their products. You set a mighty fine example sir.

Michael J

You pay for what ever suits you. If it's and old Model 70, the move away from the multi piece bottom metal is always a good thing. How fancy you get is another matter. If it's for a hunting rifle then make up your mind about price.

It seems that Ray is the only person I have ever known to make money on hs custom rifles, does that come from keeping them for 40 plus years? If that's the case, you haven't made anything.


Vary few of us realize how inflation effects us.

People pay 60 grand for Holland and Holland shotguns that do not shoot any better than a Mossberg. I think the fancy, machined bottom metal is cool. I am guessing it does not do a thing for accuracy or function. To each is own. If I had more money, I would probably put them on my guns. 4000.00 accessory package on a car that you are going to trade in 4 years at a massive loss makes much less sense.

Our entire bottom metal line has a complete and uninterrupted 2 deg. draft around the entire perimeter of the guard, which was only possible to do correctly with a true one-piece.



We do use a vibratory finish for our in-the-white models to some extent, but the inside-the-bow latch must be polished by hand in order to match it perfectly to the guard bow.

In the picture below you'll notice that the guard and floorplate have been polished, but the sides have the vibratory finish on them.




I think if we're going to do a "fair comparison", we should not be talking apples and oranges either.....
The level of polish that you speak of is not being delivered by any bottom metal maker, regardless of price, unless they are completing the entire custom rifle themselves.
You simply cannot completely finish a bottom metal correctly, until it has been inletted into a stock, where the bottom metal and stock are finished as a complete unit. To say nothing of a receiver's finish that must match the bottom metal in the final assembly.
Unlike our competitors, you will have virtually no tool marks of any kind to remove and the final luster is all that needs to be obtained. The holes are crisp and not washed out and if you choose a bead blast finish, or to matte rust blue the bottom metal, 99% of your work is done for you.

Our polished and blued upgrade is not intended to provide the highest luster possible that would require someone to spend the better part of a day obtaining. What we do is simply give a finish that will closely match a factory rifle finish that is closer to Winchester's Super Grade models, though it has always proven to have a higher luster than that.
There are many folks out there that don't have an endless budget for making good upgrades to their rifles, so they order them already blued. Sometimes they lack the knowledge or funds to blue themselves, or they don't have the money to pay a gunsmith to charge them 3 times at a minimum of what we can offer right out of the box.

Blackburn has a notable difference in their bow design, but it's not copyrighted.........






While some will place my bottom metal in the "cheap" category, or consider it simply a good value, I'll place my in-the-white bottom metal alongside any of our competitor's models and I guarantee that you'll have less time in bringing ours up to that high luster finish than you will theirs.

I've yet to begin polishing a part for shipment that didn't come straight off my machine with a better finish than has been offered by my competitors as a finished product. We also happen to be one of only two manufacturers at this point that even offer a "blued model" at any price.

I'm not going to tell someone they're paying too much for bottom metal, but I'd have a hard time having someone who's worked for me in the past tell me that they were going to spend a day polishing one guard and charging me $350.00 to do it.

What other bottom metal makers do that will drive up additional costs is the integral box, but that can be a real can of worms at the very least. I've made them, used them, and wouldn't use them again. They are far more trouble than any minute amount of benefit they may or may not add. Are they more robust?? Sure, but how robust must a bottom metal be? Do they improve function? Sometimes, but they can also be a very expensive paper weight. What happens if you decided to change your 30-06 to a 375 H&H??? Remember that $500.00 you spent on bottom metal? Well, get ready to do it again.
Leaving the box out of the equation gives the gunsmith or end user much more versatility on cartridge and bullet selection within a given cartridge. The only item that you're truly sacraficing is the extra weight of the integral box and nothing more. Not to say that the factory magazine boxes are the cure-all, because they definitely are not and could stand improvement in material selection, as well as strength and thickness, but I would take any of them hands down on any rifle I would own over an integral box.
The purest simply believe that it must be integral or you're taking a "shortcut", but the truth of the matter is, while the original intent was to lessen the costs, the major manufacturers discovered a better mouse trap in the process. The same is true for Model 70 triggers, safeties, and the Model 70/03 Springfield barrel breaching systems. Sure, one can argue back and forth about which one is better, but the above modifications that have come along since the Mauser 98 have proven themselves all over the world as being amongst the most dependable features available on a rifle, while keeping costs below that of a Mauser clone.

My bottom metal has made it into the hands of the finest custom rifle makers in the country and has been on display more than a few times at the tables of the Guild Show, so if you think that you're taking the cheap route........Think again.

Matt--

Twas hoping you would chime in on this one. I think your bottom metal is a great upgrade. I just wish you could find some affordable stainless so that you could offer those again.

Amen on the stainless

Matt
I'm glad to see you posting here. I'd like to address some of your points but since this is happening around the "campfire", I need to run and get my Boy Scout juice and leaf blower. I'll be back.

Echols does not use Williams bottom metal. He prefers 3 piece units. Mine is a Burgess.

I have Williams bottom metal on 3 rifles, and a Williams trigger guard on a blind magazine Model 700. Good stuff for the money.

I was just going by this that I found about the Legend.

http://www.chuckngalerobbins.com/Rifle.htm

This is PERFECT!

I just picked up an 03-A3 that I simply LOVE to shoot, which means I'm taking a look at some of the less desireable aspects of it and wondering what the heck I'm to do about them.

The #1 stumper is bottom metal. Matt, you have a suggestion?

I REALLY wish that I had the loot to drop on having somebody like James strip 'er down and put the thing back together cuz if ever there was one worth the effort is the da Schpringfield, but I don't. I am convinced that the stamped sheet metal POS that is on this rifle has GOT to go.

Thoughts? Rework a Mauser or Winchester unit?

You know, this 'fire here has indeed changed the way I look at my rifles. GREAT learning going on here.

Thanks a TON James & Matt! Keep it comin'!

For a guy who doesn't use my guards, he sure has bought an awful lot since about 1999..............

Guess I'll have to ask him what he's doing with all of them, as well as all the floorplate and hinges too......

Unfortunately, that's a model I don't carry, but like I've done many times before, I would recommend Sunny Hill for that one.....The bad news will be the sticker shock, but you might have already known that......

always good to hear from the "horses head"