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I shoot "silly-wet", and clays at over 500 regularly, with more than one rifle that I own.

If I knew the yardage, and was shooting the right rifle, no problem at all.

But I don't hunt with those particular rifles, my favorite hunting rifle is a .58 Hawken, and this year I am training with an iron sighted Ruger No.1 in 7X57, which, incidently I can nail a 1 gallon jug of water at 200 meters with a 160 grain bullet, and a pop can a 50 yards right after that.

From the kneeling position.

The ram at 500 meters is very close to the depth of a smallish deer, and I have seen more than a few go down from the standing position .

from the kneeling they are easy, and from prone, a cinch.

BUT, the distance is known, and the target static( not moving)

catnthehat


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It should not be a problem with known range and a rest. I would not shoot at a deer like that ( just me) because I don't want to just hit him anywhere. I have a self imposed limit of two hundred yards. I am amazed at what you say the results were from those guys. miles


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I just read the rest of the posts, and not as amazed as some that they could not hit any better than that.

Seen it before, on strange range , strange conditions, etc.

at our 1K range last year, a friend's boat showed up,
(the Outpost of the Empire Range is on a river) and wanted to shoot my 6.5WSM. I new all the fellas and know they can all shoot.

Calling the wind for them, only one of 4 hit the outside of the target, which is a 4'X6' piece of steel plate. None hit in the
24" center circle.

My son started snickering, and one of the guys said
"I'll bet you couldn't hit it, smarty pants!" My son was 13 then, and had never as yet fired that rifle, let alone at 1K.

He laid down on the beach, asked for the zero and was told
"2 minutes left windage and 1 minute high"
At 1K , for those that are not aware that is a little over 2 feet left, and 1 foot high.
SMACK! about 4" of the center. He grinned and was told to reload.
He went at it again, was stopped for a windage change, then
SMACK! about 3" away from the first one, a little further down from the first.

He shoots quite a bit, and has learned to relax, read the wind, check alignment, etc, at extended ranges so that when he is in a hunting situation at 200 yards, everything will work out.
Clay birds for him from the kneeling at 200 yards are not a problem, and at 500 meters he hits them regularly from the prone.

But we ALL have had lousy days when we couldn't hit the GROUND!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Catnthehat


scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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After reading this, I've decided I must be the world's luckiest deer hunter, having killed several deer from the bipod with my crusty 25-06 and the 100gr bullet (mostly Btips) at approximately that same distance (give or take a few yards, 425 being the farthest, one shot per cervid).

Killing oodles of woodchucks with the same outfit, in the same area, gave me enough confidence to try the first one on a standing broadside shot at a 400+ yard doe in 1988. Haven't given it a minute's thought since if the shot presents itself and the wind ain't howlin'.


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Odds?

The odds are better I could fire then stab the target with a knife before the bullet arrives. I would wear Nikes of course...


Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
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cheaha,

Perhaps these gun writers should write alittle less about shooting and shot alittle more eh ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tony.

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Quote
cheaha,

Perhaps these gun writers should write alittle less about shooting and shot alittle more eh ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tony.


I believe you hit the nail on the head.

What gets me is they brought thier rifles of choice,customs no less. They also went on to say how much they practice year round.
I'm surprised they even printed the article after their poor showing. Course they painted it in such a way as to blame the wind... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Those 5 to 10 mph winds are a bitch...


James


But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men. Mt 15:9
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well I saw this post in the am and decided to head out to the range and got the following results at 379 yards (lasered) on a 10 inch gong, wind was light 3-5mph at 90 degrees to the firing line. I used the printed ballistic cards I made with all three rifles and loads. Took one shot with each from prone/sling, prone/backpack and sitting/shooting sticks.

.308 Model 7 with 2x7 BL, 165 deepshoks 2 for 3 (prone sling miss)
.308 Model 700 Target rifle, 168 Federal match 3 for 3
.35 whelen Ruger 77 with pacnor barrel, 250gr Hornady 3 for 3
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> maybe I should learn to right for magazines <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.

"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper

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varmint,

You obviously know you guns and loads well.

And, you weren't even using a bypod like they were. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Nice shooting.

Tony.

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Ok I reread the post and saw that the wind was from 5-10mph form 4-8 oclock. To me that makes the showing even worse <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

From my .35 Whelen and 250 gr loads(worst ballistic combo I have) the max drift for a 90degree wind is 8-16" at 400, considering the wind was swirling it would more likely be 0 to 6" in either direction. Move up to a decent load in a measly .308 (150xxx at 3000) and the full drift value is 5.5-13" at 400. I didnt even want to look at numbers for the "flat shooting" stuff they were using.

The more I thought about it the culprit was the loose nut behind the trigger.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

And before someone says Im being to cocky I fully admit my biggest mystery miss is a coyote at 200yards from the prone with a target rifle...got to love it when your humbled.


Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.

"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper

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That article wasn't referring to complete misses, they called a miss the kill zone, i belive a 12 inch circle on the NRA deer target, and i think between the 4 of them they hit 5/12 and were themselves surpriesed by there lack of success. They did much better from the tower stand.


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A miss on a 12" circle is a LTTLE bit more realistic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Thanx for the info , Martin.

The rifles they were using were a lot bigger than Mr. Van Zwoll's 270, also, which may have had something to do with it.

Catnthehat


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The "Tower Shoot" portion mentioned the vital hit. The long range prone shoot where they shot horribly did not mention any such restriction just hitting or missing the lifesize broadside deer target.

They picked their own rig so recoil is not an excuse IMO....


James


But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men. Mt 15:9
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Quote
#4 shooter- Wayne Zan Zwoll- Pre-64 M-70 in 270win with an old Lyman fixed 2.5x scope.


I found this part interesting. The only hit recorded was with the lowest powered scope! Seems to reinforce the notion of some (starting to become mine as well) that 4x or 6x fixed scope is all that is needed when big game hunting.

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That is pathetic shooting!!!! Especially with a .257 Weatheryb (No matter how light the bullets are). I truly dig my dinky .25-284 with 100 grain bullets at 3,500 fps. I recently hung out a 9 inch gong at 600 yards. Wind was gusting at 8-15 mph. My first three shots off of a portable shooting bench went into a 3" group. The next 10 were all over the gong, two missed (although slightly) as the wind started swirling. I couldn't read it to save my life. I would have loved to be there and watch Layne eat some humble pie, since he is so arrogant about his shooting ability and all his custom long range rigs. Flinch


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Layne seemed especially irritated about his pisspoor shooting. He blamed the 257 Wby/100gr combo then went on to blame the wind which was only 5 to 10 mph. Would have loved to see the expression on his face...


James


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Wayne went 3 for 3 @ 400 yds. If you throw out his score then your left with 2 for 9 for Layne,Dave and The Bod... Might wanna be a thang if they're shooting.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


James


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I've read that Wayne has/does participate in competitive shooting (not sure which discipline), so it seems the Indian may be important than the arrow! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Flinch,

I really can't believe "Mr. STW" didn't use one of his STWs.

I mean, come on, 5MPH wind, shooting a 150 or 160 at the speeds he claims to get out of his custom 7 STWs ?

WTF, it don't get any easier. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tony.

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Balderdash, flim flam, call it what you will, I have always said that MOST of 'em don't practice what they preach.

Recoil? I'll bet they would get peed if you suggested any of them step down a notch and see if the lesser recoil made a difference!


Wind? No excuses. All knew what they were getting into. I have never been down there, but Mention Kenny Jarret and the very first thing that comes to mind is "BEANFIELD"! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

NOT 100 yard bench, ot any other of the close stuff.

Loads? Not even close! All should have been prepped, after all , they were shooting their own ammo, right?

Caliber? refer back to the previous.

The only one that seemed to be prepared to shoot was Mr. Van Zwoll, and by the sounds of things really got the excuses flowing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Catnthehat


scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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