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Perhaps these gun writers should write alittle less about shooting and shot alittle more eh ?
I couldn't agree more.They can use whatever excuses they want but the bottom line is that they didn't know their ballistics or couldn't judge the conditions.I practise regularly on our silhouette range and using an improvised rest or bipod I am very consistant at 385meters as long as the wind is reasonable.I consider a 5-10mph angling wind quite reasonable.
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Roger that, Pointer! High powered scopes are so very tempting and a grand illusion with big game I think. It is just very hard to convince someone that you don't shoot better with a rifle on a telescope!
cavey
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I have used high powered optics on some of my hunting rifles in the past, but only because they were already mounted and always kept them turned to the lowest setting.
I prefer a 6X or 4X, and have a '60's vintage Kahles that I am going to put on my RugerNo.1 RSI , but only to mess with .
That rifle is going into the field with a receiver peep on it this year.
Catnthehat
scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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at 400 yards off of a bipod and 5-10mph winds, i think i could do that with some consistency. at my local range these are the conditions just about everyday. a 2'x2' steel plate at 300 yards is what we shoot at most of the time. i have hit it freehand on more than one occasion. it is almost automatic off of the bipods.......blake
People sleep peaceable in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I never missed a deer at 400 yards, but once I had my hunting buddy thinking I'd missed at 35. Pshaw! I was really aiming at that small limb just 20 yards out. Good shot I thought. Didn't want the deer to get poked in the eye, the light being poor and all... ![[Linked Image]](http://ubbsmile.free.fr/smileys/sarcastic.gif)
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Thought I'd be cute once, while my bud was across the road waiting for a woodchuck to come back out several hundred yards across a hayfield. Sitting there in the truck and glassing "my" side of the dirt road, one popped up about 50 yards away. Snuck out with the 25-06, rolled a round in and proceeded to stir up dirt well-beyond the little pizzer with a "peep shot" offhand stab. Previous shot with that rifle had been at over 400 yards in another location...some dummy forgot to rezero the elevation turret aferwards. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Bud raised up on an elbow, looked around in my direction at the dust plume spreading across the field and asked how the plowin' was coming along.
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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My regular practice distance is 400 yds. and I shoot at an 8in square with a Remington Sendero cal. 7mm Ultra Mag. I use cross sticks from a sitting position fireing a 160 Accubond at 3300 and seldom miss. Scope is a 6.5x20x40 Leupold with target turrets in a Leupold long range base. I usually shoot on 20x. Hitting at 400 yds, even with a cross wind, does not seem too hard.
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An interesting post. My first impression is the writers had missed in range estimation. ( I didn't read if they knew the distance?) Out beyond 300 yards it becomes very tricky for me! Without a laser, I would not even place a small wager on being able to call a distance correctly of say 375, 400, or maybe its 450 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. This is also the distance where our trajectories are diving like the end of a parabola.
Interesting choices for Van Zwoll showing up for the competition with a very old caliber, an old rifle, and an old out of production scope. And he was the only one who knew what he was doing from the group.
Causes me to remember outfitters saying "know where your hitting at all distances".
I would have expected the others to have done better with their newer equipment.
Thats more humiliation for Simpson.
But after all is said, I am the first to admit, I can miss a deer at any distance, but I have hit a few farther away than I knew.
Last edited by StrayDog; 08/10/04.
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Campfire Oracle
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Do you think this casts doubt on the ranges claimed in hunt mag stories "Sheep taken at 330 yards" stuff? I'm sure 'nuff not an expert, but don't write "expert" stories in mazagines or attempt quarter-mile shots on ANY game. Is this a case of these fellows "talking (not taking) a long shot"?
--Mike
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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cheaha,
Looks to me that they didn't know their load.
Hard to believe with that kind of talent behind the trigger.
Tony. Who has ever said they were talented shooters? The only mainstream gun writer that has credentials is Ross Seyfried, who won the handgun world championships. Just because the other bunch writes about guns and hunting, and get free loaner guns and hunts, doesn't give them credentials as shooters. What this really points out is that darn few people have the skills to be taking long range shots on game. The right equipement is the necessary starting point, but it only puts the bullet where it is aimed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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I am in no way braging here at all , but .... sako 7 rem mag no bipod or sticks just my fanny pack no range finder at the time of shot= 1 dead antelope at 82 3/8 inches officially. Later range finding put the goat at 624. Point of the story ,
know your gun this was my only rifle for over 10 years . I know how to shoot it. What happens to some of the guys I know is they slip seat a new gun or 2 every year and never get to know the gun . If it doesnt split hairs out of the box they dump it and move on. Practice is what will make you connect when the time comes.
I Kill Things......deal with it..
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Damn! How far did you have to hold over for that???
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This reminds me of what happened in Skydiving, when they came out with the professional rating. It required you to land, standing up, in a 5 meter circle.....10 times. You had to declare before you got in the airplane that you were going to do it.
All the experienced guys proclaimed how easy that would be but if you missed the circle once or touched even a hand, you had to start over. It was amazing how many guys who always talked about how good they were, decided they did not need this rating, after trying for it a few times. Cut out a lot of the "I can do that any time any place" statements that had gone on for years. It is one thing to claim to be able to do it. It is another entirely to have to do it repeatedly, in front of witnesses. Not can you do it most of the time, when the conditions are right, with no mulligans, but can you do it every time. My guess is that many of us would fail, shooting under those kinds of rules but that is just my opinion and I could be wrong. TM
Some mornings, it just does not feel worth it to chew through the straps!~
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You're correct, folks talk a lot of talk. But, if you're at a long range rifle match and ask the fellas if they can hit a rather large target at 400 yards a lot of them will reply that they can but of course you'll probably hear the same reply at a cowboy action shoot. (My money would go with the long range crowd.) Certainly depends on the place of the asking and the folks asked.
ALL
Deer season is upon us, maybe we could put the "Hit the deer" test to folks around here.
Original post stated hit a life size deer target "anywhere" from 400 yards, any position except a concrete bench (I believe any bench would be out of the question).
Let's put it to the test.
I suggest a piece of cardboard, 16" tall by 36" long. Place it horizontal at 400 yards (hang it off the ground so we don't get ground crawler round hits) and shoot 1 round. Go down and mark the target a hit or miss and then back to the line and fire a second round (just for fun). Assume the head end of the cardboard is "A", the back is "B" the tail is "C" and the belly is "D".
Post your results here. First round, hit or miss, then the inches is was from "A" and "B". Post the same for round # 2, hit or miss and again the inches from "A" and "B". We can all then plot the hits on our own target and "play along".
Post the cartridge, bullet, specifics of desired, rifle, optics/sights, position, conditions, altitude, temp, wind, whatever.
I have a few items left over from a previous "fun shoot" and I'll send a few goodies to some of the better performers or teller of tales.
I have Leupold bases, Nosler partition bullets, a few wildlife prints and some other hunting related stuff.
I'll start a new thread about it.
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Sounds like fun. I'll get my bud from work to shoot it with me next weekend...
James
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men. Mt 15:9
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This thread has reminded me of when our range first made a 400 yard target available. With two different rifles that both placed 5 shot groups in less than 1" @ 100 yards, I shot 8" groups @ 400 yards from a bench! And another surprise was one rifle didn't drop as much as it was suppose to, and the other dropped a lot more. It is so important to know where your rifle hits. Until I had this experience, I had just always thought that if your rifle would shoot MOA @ 100, it would be 4" @ 400 etc. Since then I do my load testing and development at 200 yards and that has helped. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Very true! It's amazing to see what your rifle will really do @ 400yds. Some shoot much better than anticipated and some worse.
Years ago I had a 300 yd range and did all my load development from that range. Some of my best 300 yd loads did only fair @ 100...
James
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men. Mt 15:9
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As far as holding MOA goes, I am really proud when I can shoot 2" or less groups at 200 yards. I've done it, I'm sure most folks here have as well. Its just that thinking that automatically you'll have 2"gr. at 200, 3"gr. at 300 etc. is bull. The rifle may be able to do it, but the rest is up to you.
Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
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All I can tell ya is come help me drag him out. Cause that puppy is dead. I practice a lot at that range. Mainly due to the size of a couple of food plots I hunt. Have killed several deer standing under the pines in the back of em. One shot...One dead deer. So...yeah...stick em out there...I'll gladly smoke him for ya.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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This reminds me of what happened in Skydiving, when they came out with the professional rating. It required you to land, standing up, in a 5 meter circle.....10 times. You had to declare before you got in the airplane that you were going to do it.
All the experienced guys proclaimed how easy that would be but if you missed the circle once or touched even a hand, you had to start over. It was amazing how many guys who always talked about how good they were, decided they did not need this rating, after trying for it a few times. Cut out a lot of the "I can do that any time any place" statements that had gone on for years. It is one thing to claim to be able to do it. It is another entirely to have to do it repeatedly, in front of witnesses. Not can you do it most of the time, when the conditions are right, with no mulligans, but can you do it every time. My guess is that many of us would fail, shooting under those kinds of rules but that is just my opinion and I could be wrong. TM Reminds me of a comment made to me by a very well known international type shooter after I remarked that I was surprised at my fairly decent placement in the final standings at an international level tactical match. He remarked " if you keep up with this type of competition you will soon notice that after the noise dies down & the smoke clears you can look around & say, " hell, these famous ***** can't shoot"" Semper Fi <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is better to die a free man, weapon in hand, than to live life as a coward & a slave"
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