Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Your first strike odds @ 400 yds???

CL, Been there too many times when someone "called" a flyer, etc. to know that it is hard to shoot at that distance. Can some folks do it? No doubt in my mind but there is also no dought the ranks would be thinned if everyone who said they could, had to. JMHO TM

distance is relative. If you never shoot regularly over 75 yds. 400 is a long way.
I am a long range freak & my longest distance, witnessed, is 1800 yds. ( target was a 4" wide by 22" tall mini pepper popper, took 6 rounds since there is a 1200 ft elevation difference in elevation between my practice area & the witnessed location. obviously I have made several un-witnessed hits to be able to "dope" for the witnessed shot.). No I do NOT intend to attempt big game shots at this distance unless they are called osama. I regularly ( as work duty permits) shoot NRA long range (1000 yd) matches. 400 yds is a chip shot.
What gets me is the "excuse" of 5 to 10 mph wind causing their misses. Heck around here that isn't even considered wind. 10 to 15 is a light breeze & we have fired 1000 yd matches in steady 25+ with gusts over 30. Now that will cause some serious misses.
Dave's "challange" shoot sounds like fun we ought to give it a whirl. mebbe we can get some famous writing jobs too, ya think?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A 4" wide target @ 1800yds??? You 'da man!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What kind of scope you using to see at that distance?

I can't imagine me hitting anything at that distance.

Scope is a Leupold 4.5x14 w/MilDot reticle ( 338 RUM, 300 gr. Sierra Match HPBT, Moly, just shy of 3000fps). Actually I have found that anything over 16X magnifies the mirage to such a degree that the target gets too blurry to see.
If you can imagine it, you can do it. If I can ever get real good at doping wind @ 1800, 1000 or less will be a piece of cake. Talking to folks that shoot the big Black Powder cartridges at 1000 yds & beyond, they say that shooting .22 rim fire @ 200 or so is good practice, I,ve got a CZ that is accurate to 250 yds. & it seems to prove their point. Give it a try, you may surprise your self at how good you can be.
Semper Fi
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I'd say running 10 for 10 at 400yds with anything resembling a sound rifle and quality glass,is akin to the difficulty level of reliably scratching one's own ass.

100%,is a given...................

What are the acceptable excuse parameters there, if one attempts to scratch his arse and instead, winds up with his paw on his left ear? Most of the folks I know that get upset about someone shooting at game at 400+ yards, appear to have that problem. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />



Probably ain't in the top 5000 when it comes to reliably hitting things at 400 yards, but have done it enough times to feel pretty good about it if the chance arises.



No shortage of folks I've met that have opinions on it though, many of whom could have that arse/ear problem, since they're convinced no one can hit anything more'n 200 yards out and consider it to be a troubling concept.



Wish I had a dollar for everytime someone has told me a hunter has no business shooting at anything that's "too far" away. Once made the mistake of taking my 25-06 HB to our range right before deer season one year, when the range was teeming with 50 and 100 yard paper-plate swatters. Got my arse reamed for even thinking of taking that thing out for deer..."looks like a varmint rifle of some sort, WTH you doing with that?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Took two gents from this Board out yesterday and both was 100% LongRange Newbies. Neither had twisted a turret,nor had ever engaged at what most would term "long distance" before.

Gave 'em a 30 second course on keeping the reticle square,the nuances of turret dope and how to procure a rapid field rest. Both schwacked targets smaller than Deer vitals at 700+ yds,with both a lowly 7-08 and one of them newfangled 300Whizzums. All done via typical fieldrest,from the MPAJ position(Monkey [bleep]' A Jug).

One went on to do what I'd term pretty tidy work at the 425yd line,on targets in the clay pigeon size realm. Both would state without hesitation,that after the brief intro and a coupla yanks of the trigger,that 400yd pokes on Venison Vitals is simply a done deal.

Needless to say,both left with mouths agape at their newfound abilities and had new plans on how to spend amassed loot. 400yds is dick,that's why I started them at 700 plus and immediately got their collective minds right on the ease of connecting beyond a typical zero range.

Lotsa smoke and mirrors floating around and many are bent on making the most simpistic tasks,into adverse difficulties.

Shooting ain't difficult,for the folks that actually do it(as opposed to talking about it) and 400yds is farrrrr,from being "far".

A guy makes his own "luck" and good gear + practice is a great first step in that direction................

No argument there, especially with them last three sentences.

I can still recall how tickled I was over 40 years ago, when I killed my first woodchuck beyond 100 yards with a Hornet and thought that was a mighty big deal at the time.

It occured to some of us long ago, that if we could consistantly render rodents lifeless at ranges beyond 400 yards, doing same to a whitetail with a capable rig wasn't much of a challenge.

Some years ago, my old huntin' bud thumped a bedded doe in the punkin at about 390 yards (lasered), from the bipod with his M700ADL 6mm Rem and a 95gr Btip. He offered to donate the tagged deer to some guys that'd gotten one doe and were heading back home to the flatlands that night, (first day of the season, we were there all week, they weren't).

When they got around to surveying the damage (one guy said he'd take it if'n it wasn't "all shot up") and my bud related the shot, one of 'em basically called him a liar. The guy whose farm they were staying at, calmed things down by saying he'd seen us "lay out there in the fields like a buncha drunken hobos" and kill woodchucks a helluva lot farther away than that doe was. Also mentioned he didn't think it was much different to whack a pasture poodle at distance, than it was to poke a bedded deer in the head, since the target appeared to be about the same size to him. Bud had to ruin the moment by declining any honors, since he'd hit the doe under the ear and said he'd been aiming for her eye at the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

They happily took the deer and went home, the noisy feller never came back up there to hunt afterwards and I ain't started missing him yet either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

When the Queen Bee still hunted deer with us, I had her M77 25-06 dialed-in 3 and a half inches high at 100 yds, which kept the 120gr Sierras about two inches low at 300yds, IIRC now. She killed one doe with it from the Harris, at 350 yards with a bit of urging and advice, otherwise she killed deer with it in the woods, offhand, at closer ranges every fall.

Some years later she handed the rifle to a cousin of mine that was carrying a Marlin 30-30 and told him to "just center it" on a doe a couple hundred yards across the hollow from them. He did, it died, she got a chuckle out of the way he whooped over that one, him having never killed a deer beyond about 80 yards previously.

I've been watching this thread with considerable interest ever since it appeared and though I have responded earlier I didn't really say all I wanted to because of concern over how others would react. I practice regularly at 400 yards off cross sticks and from other field positions. I don't mean to brag at all but folks 400 yards IS NOT THAT FAR! I never even thought of that as "long range" until I started reading what others had to say in various forums like this one. Now I have missed deer a few times at ranges well under 400 but the chance I will miss the vitals of a deer sized animal at 400 yards is just about zero and I have hit a lot farther than 400. I don't read the wind well so I do limit longer shots to situations where the wind is low. Having the right equipment and practicing is the key. You have to pull the trigger on distant targets a great deal to really learn what you can and can't do. In my opinion, anyone trying to establish some arbitrary distance past which it becomes unethical for anyone to shoot is just being silly. I have encountered numerous people who for one reason or another just couldn't shoot. For them any shot at an animal past 100 yards was a shot they probably shouldn't take. Ultimately the decision to shoot or not to shoot depends upon too many varibles for anyone to generalize. I hope I'm not coming accross as bragging or arrogant because I certainly don't mean to be. I had rather take a close shot than a long one but I also want the ability to take the long one if the need arises.

No agruements there. I know several who have no business shooting past 50 yds.

I enjoy punching paper @ 400 yds and for me it's no big deal to keep 'em within a 3" circle. I guess my years of Groundhog and Crow shooting helps but most anyone can learn to shoot if one takes the time and effort...

My brother and I recently got an eye-opener on this, from Stick himself.

Suffice it to say, whacking something at 700+ yards while laying in the dirt and getting rained on, was a new experience. I never would have believed it, had I not tried it.

No smoke and mirrors involved, and no voodoo. If you have a good rangefinder and a scope that repeats, all that's left is to practice.

While one session doesn't make me an expert, with my Leica 1200 and Stick's 7-08, I wouldn't wanna be a deer within 700yds...

Within 400yds....no problem.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

dave

I'm one of the guys that has never turned a turrret after sight in.

But I'm going to start practicing. To help with what is a new game for me, I am going to rotate my scope 90 degrees. The Zeiss Conquest dials are reversed from the Leupie, with the scope rotated in a position with the horizontal turret at the top, left and right is natural without having to remember which way to turn the adjustment. The same way with the vertical turret poaitioned on the left, up and down is naturally oriented. Turning forward will be down, turning backwards will be up.

Now I probably have everyone turned around, but it makes sense to me. Now I just need to get to clicking in 50 yard increments. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



With this method, would a 30-06 be as likely to hit @ 600 yards as say a .300 Winnie?

There is no "likely".

An accurate rifle,with good ammo,sporting a scope that has repeatable adjustments,will poke the group where one wishes,largely regardless of distance.

That assuming a guy that can shoot and favorable atmospheric conditions.

You'll freak out,like everyone does..........................

A Target Turret,Cheat Sheet & a LRF will do some amazing things combined with actual practice and a smidge of common sense.

Only difference is you'll crank up a bit more elevation. Assuming they both shoot, that is the only dif. The 300 winny will be doing more damage though due to higher impact velocity.

Well the score is 100 % on every deer I have shot at 400 + yards. (about 50% on prairie dogs at that same distance)But I have to confess that I do cheat. I don't shoot at every deer I see past 400 yards, Only the ones I know I can hit and only when the conditions are such that I know I will hit them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Learning how to cheat is what makes a good long range shooter. I don't "poke and hope" at deer. I work out long range shooting on prairie dogs and other varmints.

Stray Dog, I shoot a custom .300ultra wearing a Ziess Conquest 4.5X14 with target turrets. At our club the 600 yard range is restricted to people who've gone thru a qualifying process. I finally got off my dead arse this past month to get certified on the 600 range. They train you on range procedures, and want to make sure you and your equipment is up to the task. Your required to put 60 rounds in the black on a high power target (a 36" circle). Well, I keep hearing how 600 yards is suppose to be expotentialy more difficult (not 6 times) than 100 yard shooting. So anyways first thing they have you do is dial in your 600 yard come-up and shoot a target at 100 yards to confirm your data (they use a grid system set up for various cartridges- magnum rifle, service rifle, standard rifle). Now remember this is the first time I've shot past 300 yards, I confirm my come-up at 100, fire my spotter at 600, shooting prone off a bypod with a sand sock in the rear. First shot is in the 9 ring at 10:30 ( aprox 7 1/2" from the center of the target). Range officer gives me my correction, dial it in, next round drills the X dead center. Range officer takes a look thru his spotting scope, decides I don't need any more coaching, leaves me to finish my relay. I fire 9 more shots, 4 "X's" 5 10's, groups are centered on the edge of the "X" ring at 12:00, 5" group. I drilled the spotter they place in the hole 3 times when it was marking shots in the "X" ring. Might have been beginners luck, but as Stick says, you'll freak out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good shootin <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It was quite breezy today but we did some shooting @ 300 yds anyway. Winds were out of the east @ 12-20 mph, mostly 20. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, hitting a deer size target was no problem. I was holding into the wind a good 6" and was hitting 4-6" off. The wind is a good teacher-learn to trust your wind drift numbers. Without allowing for the wind, you will have a hard time at longer ranges.

Cheaha, I've been pretending to be a benchrest shooter playing with VFS (Varmit For Score) matches this summer. My weapon of choice has been a SUCKS VS in .223 with a Weaver 36 power scope. Every time I think I've got this wind thing understood I'll read the flags, figure my hold point and fire. Guess where my bullet goes?????????????? The exact point where I placed my dot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Al