Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 200 gr Speer in Model 99 / 300 Savage?

Anyone is free to like/use whatever they wish. An ordinary softpoint will kill any lower 48 game with good shot placement.
Your 7x57 would shoot flatter, farther and penetrate just as well or better with a 120/140 TSX. It's not a debate. Get out the ballistic gel tubes, the wet phone books interspersed with fresh cow bones or even the old US govt. pine boards. The results will always be the same. The old long for caliber bullets like the 160 6.5 or 175 .284 are fine killers but technology has passed them by.
When I can push a 210 gr X at 3000 fps out of a 375 H&H and go end to end on an Elk, there is no need for a lumbering 300 gr softpoint.
In the case of the 300 Savage, especially, a long bullet, short neck and thus limited powder space are not a good mix. A premium 150 will give you equal or better performance. I would suggest the OP try the different bullets on paper and ballistic media and take close note of the trajectory as well.
Do I hate big old bullets? No, I don't shoot Sabots in my muzzle loaders and this 61 caliber 1.4 ounce monster put this boy on the ground within 20 yards.(1809 British military flintlock)

I'm all about old school, that's why I hunt with a tang sighted takedown Savage 99 in 300 Savage.


Of course I load it up with 130gr Barnes TTSX's.....

I've shot the "300" since the early 1960's on deer here in Minnesota. As far as hunting in thick stuff, I would put our brush around here up against any. I have shot a variety of different bullets in the old 300, but have settled on the 150 cup and core Hornady or Speers in them for decades. However, if we ever have to go unleaded, Steelhead's favorite will quickly become my favorite. There is already a box of them sitting on the shelf to be tested!

I wish I had a 99 to play around with heavier bullet weights but I traded mine to a friend for a model 70. It was a 99R and was a beautiful rifle. All I ever used was 150's on deer and it was a pure killer. My weak spot for Winchesters has cost me a lot of sleepless nights over that trade.

You can find 99 R & RSs in Gun Digest (ex Gun List). Not cheap but they are available.

orion, if you're interested in re-acquiring a 99 let me know. I keep abreast of the auction sites and can point you to them. Decent shooter quality 99R's in 300 Savage aren't very expensive.

Oldman1941 from another Oldman1935, your right hunting is not all about shooting an animal with a 300 Whizbang, but it can be..

I have always tried to use different calibers, different types of rifles, all kinds of bullets, I have hunted big game with about everything including a bow, pistol, muzzle loader and even killed a Pronghorn antelope with a 22 cal. air gun in my mispent cowboy youth..I think that is all part of the enjoyment of hunting if you approach it right and adopt the gun etc to the hunting style needed to get clean kills..The BB gun being the exception and also a surprise that scared the crap out of two ranch kids and was the beginning of their life of crime!

I prefer the 165 Partitian and use almost the same load stated except that I get 2600 fps from 42 grains RL 15. I'm using that load in a tang sighted 99 model G on an elk hunt next week in the Frank Church Wilderness of Idaho. A 165 grain Partitian out of a 300 Savage will kill every elk it hits if the shot is a good one.

Agree, fine bullet and, as you say, "if the shot is a good one" a 150 Cortlock would also do it.

Some ballistic info that might make a difference to the OP if he is confronted with a longer shot.All w/100 yd zero.

150gr 2750 200 -4 300 -15
180gr 2400 200 -6 300 -20
200gr 2300 200 -8 300 -29

Expansion @300 may be an issue with 180 & 200 as most are constructed for 30-06 velocity. We have found the 30 150 TSX will
achieve 2 caliber expansion at 1300 fps.

I wasn't gonna re-visit this thread but wanted to point out what I view as dis-information and old wives tales that a little research shows simply aren't valid in these days of Premium bullets and newer powders.

This has been an interesting and informative thread for me. I've learned there are a lot of old wives tales that just don't hold water like: " You'll lose case capacity loading a 200gr cup n core bullet in a .300 Savage...

This would be correct for the most part 50 or 60 years ago when all we had were cup n core bullets (except Nosler Partitions of course). Shooting out of a small case like the .300 Savage, the 200's and 180's DID use excess powder space but in this day of plastic tips, partitions and monometals, many bullets are longer than in years past.

Ironically after looking around in a few manuals and online I learned that a 150gr Nosler Ballistic tip is LONGER than a 200gr Speer sp.

That most monometal 150gr bullets are also as long or longer than the 200gr bullets I mentioned in my 1st post on this thread. Same goes for most premium 165gr bullets and of course the 180gr premiums are all as long or longer than the 200gr bullets mentioned in this thread.

So any premium bullet 150 grains or heavier uses up just about as much or MORE case capacity than the 200gr bullet the OP asked about.

Now this doesn't apply to lighter cup n core bullets ie; 150's, as we're then talking same type of construction, but premiums are another story! They use up just as much powder space or MORE. (except the 130 tsx )

I'll be the first to admit that 150's do well in this cartridge and are ideal for Deer, but many other weights do good also when loaded for other purposes. I load from 125gr Speers for varmints to 200's for uses like the Original Poster's use for dark woods Big Game... Part of being a rifle loony I guess to experiment with different loads? .

Here's some ADDITIONAL ballistic info that might make a difference to the OP if he is confronted with a longer shot. All w/100 yd zero and a bit different conclusion than oldman1942's data. Not sure where he got his info.

These are with Nosler B.C.'s except for the 200 Speer which is the reduced one, (.478 vs .556), from a catalog I have and these velocities are ones from reliable sources easily achieved in a Savage 99 with a 24" bbl using RL-15. I've seen similar results published using Varget.

150gr bc .387 vel 2750 200 -4.06" 300 -14.69"
165gr bc .410 vel 2625 200 -4.60" 300 -16.22"
180gr bc .474 vel 2500 200 -5.11" 300 -17.56"
200gr bc .478 vel 2400 200 -5.63" 300 -19.18"

BC's get higher with bullets of similar design profile as weight increases.

So we get about a 1.5" at 200yds and a 4.5" difference in drop at 300yds with 150's vs 200's not a 4" and 14" difference...

Velocity at 300 yds with the 200 Speer is over 1900 fps which is enough for reliable expansion with most cup n core bullets.

I tend to agree when using heavy bullets in the .300 Savage with the outlook of PJGunner in top post on pg2 of this thread on the 308 vs 30-06.

PJGunners Viewpoint


To the OP: go ahead and try 200's...you'll like em, it's a good way to squeeze the most power out of a great old cartridge! The naysayers either haven't done it or are just repeating what they've heard before or both. Do the research you'll see...

Have a great day!

I have never been able to come anywhere near 2400 FPS with any 200 gr. bullet in the .308 Savage 99..To start with most max loads in the books are too hot for that springing action and they will pop the bolt open a tad..that is a bit worrisome..My max loads in a Savage 99 are about 2 grs. below book max as a rule..and I have no problem with that as no animal will know the difference and trajectory probably differs an inch at 300 yds.

The most I have been able to safely get with a 200 gr. bullet in my 99s was just a tad under 2200 FPS..That is not a bad load and its certainly a deadly load, even in todays society where whizbang 4000 FPS is minimum to kill a gopher in some folks minds. Many have fallen under the Roy Spell! (Roy Weatherby that is)

At the risk of repeating myself, there is no reason on God's earth to use a 200 gr bullet in a 300 Savage given the superior monometal bullets available today. A 150 gr TSX will outspeed, out trajectory, outexpand and outkill any bullet using lead in it's construction. A simple test in ballistic gel will show the biggest doubter that the wound channel is bigger and the damage more severe. If, in live game, bones are encountered, the TSX will sail through, the Partition will wipe off its nose and continue leaving a 308 hole and a cup and core might come apart.
This 185 TSX in a 338 Federal loaded to 2500 fps, a load that could easily be duplicated in a 99 chambered for that caliber,
was recovered from a clay bank AFTER breaking both shoulders of a mature cow Elk.


Few lead core bullets could duplicate that penetration and none would have all those nasty sharp edges that blasted through bone and wrecked the Elk's plumbing. Interesting to note that Hornady, Remington and Nosler have all jumped on the monometal bandwagon and don't let anyone tell you it's because of Condors!
Now Woodleigh makes a 250 gr 308 softnose if you want to get a seriously heavy bullet in your 300!

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one... lol. Good bullets no doubt but I don't buy into all of Barnes marketing hype, apparently you do?

I see lots of reasons to shoot 200's, 180's, 165's, 150's etc. in the little .300 Savage. Different strokes I guess.

The .300 Savage has worked GREAT for the past 90 years just like the factory loads it!

I see no reason on Gods green earth to use premium bullets, 150's or otherwise, in a rifle/cartridge combo that is good out to about 300yds any way you look at it at 2700fps and less, as good ole cup n cores will do everything that needs doing in this cartridge. Just adjust the weight for the job and get it done.

I just don't get why using a more expensive monometal bullet of lighter weight that penetrates AS GOOD as a heavier lead core bullet gives it any great advantage. The velocity doesn't matter much and the trajectory is not different enough to worry about at less that 300 yds. The heavier bullet also maintains more momemtum than lighter ones do.

Barnes bullets .30 cal and smaller don't have the best reputation for opening up on shots that hit at angles on bone or clog with any type of material before impact and as such I don't see them being as reliable as a lead core bullet at opening up. Bonded Round Noses are probably best at that but that's another discussion.

The OP asked about a dark timber load that could if needed reach out a little. He got lots of good advice but there is no one best solution just different viewpoints on how to do it that's all. They'll all work just fine!

Ray: I am 1.5 grains under the max load of RL-15 that Speer/Alliant say is max for the Speer 200gr bullets and my chronograph says on average about 2410 fps. Those are the numbers.

I got over 2400 in a Winchester 88 .308 with 200-grain Norma Oryx's and W760 (the same as H414). No signs of excessive pressure whatsoever. The 88 bolt locks at the front instead of the rear like the 99's, but there was no hesitation in operation.

Can't imagine the 200 Speer wouldn't work OK in a .300 Savage at typical woods ranges is that's what somebody wanted to use.

I am a fan of the .35 Rem in a Marlin lever for deer in the brush. I was looking for a old Rem Mod 81 auto to fill a hole in my collection and for possible use on hogs. I was thinking .35 Rem, but I found one in a .300 Sav. Upon checking, I was amazed at how much more energy the .300 Sav had.

Well you are free to believe whatever you want about Barnes. The guys I know have killed 100s of head of Deer, Elk, Antelope, Moose, Goats, Sheep and Bear with Xs, TSXs, TTSXs & MRXs. We have tried every hunting bullet under the sun (some of them are even older than me) and there is nothing better.
No animal has EVER been lost and almost all were one shot kills.
I might also note that many African PHs suggest the use of Barnes. One guy who writes for African Hunter even has a necklace made of several dozen .375. .411 and .45 Xs and TSXs taken from dead Buffs.
I will end my comments as I have said what I wanted to say.
"A 150 TSX in a 300 Savage will kill any game in the lower 48 within the hunter's ethical range envelope."

Good to know that finally someone found The Answer to everything.

Personally, a cheap 150-165-grain lead-core bullet has killed everything I've ever pointed a .300 Savage at, and exited whatever animal, at half the cost of a TSX, or whatever "premium" you want to choose.

I have seen the TSX used on maybe 150 big game animals from pronghorn on up, both in North America and Africa. It is a good bullet but in my experience doesn't kill as quickly, on average, as some other bullets (and often much cheaper bullets) on deer-sized game.

I have even found its extreme penetration not necessary even on elk-sized game, but then apparently many people think elk are the same consistency as big trees and just as tough to knock over. I do really like the performance of TSX's (and similar bullets) on game of 1000 pounds or over, but don't find them ideal for every use.

But am always glad to hear on the Internet from another person who has The Answer.

Preach on brotha!

I don't have any problem whatsoever with people doing so, but suggesting that a Barnes X bullet is the end-all-be-all for everything from deer on up sounds a bit over the top.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A 200 gr bullet in your 300 Savage will do wonders on elk in the timber; have at it.

I'm sorry, but toting an X bullet for deer and elk is like mixing fine single-malt 30 year scotch with Coke. Remember that, as great an answer as it may be, the X and other uber-premium bullets are the market's answer to a whole other question than this one.

But as the poster above said, that is just my opinion.

Perhaps you could share with us the "other question"? (And don't say "Condors")
One wonders, back when the first cup and core bullets came along, replacing solid lead, if the same conversations were held?
As in:"My 500 gr 45-70 lead bullet will kill anything that walks."
(He was right as long as he could dope range down to 50 yard increments) but the guy with the 30-40 had at least a 50% greater point blank range as does the guy with the 150 vs the 200 in the 300.
We have the targets out to 300 and the dead animals...facts not opinions....you have?