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Would we say that:

The .40 S&W is to a 10mm as the

.38 Spec is to a .357 Mag as the

.41 Colt is to a .41 mag as the

.44 Spec is to a .44 Mag as the

.45 ACP is to a .45 Colt, ect, ect.

The left hand group are defense rounds, the right are hunters.

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Originally Posted by croldfort
Would we say that:

The .40 S&W is to a 10mm as the

.38 Spec is to a .357 Mag as the

.41 Colt is to a .41 mag as the

.44 Spec is to a .44 Mag as the

.45 ACP is to a .45 Colt, ect, ect.

The left hand group are defense rounds, the right are hunters.


No. For whatever reason, the .40 at least equals the 10mm as far as one-shot-stops. Probably because you reach a point that about any normal handgun is just not going to get any better than. The .38 in factory loadings, is far inferior to the best .357 Mag. loadings. The 41 Mag. is at the top of the heap as far as manstoppers. The 41 Colt is not in the running. The .44 Spec. is decent but not as good as the best loads in the final three calibers. Hunting is an entirely different proposition. I think normally, you can throw the .38 and the 41 Colt out as big game rounds. I see no need for the .45 Auto in the big game fields either, though with the right loads it is certainly capable. The .40 is up in the air.

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Originally Posted by 222Rem
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Hmmm...pepper spray for home defense?

effective on 99.9% of people

instantly neutralizes an attacker (the examples I have seen)

no over penetration issues

no legal hassles with its use (in any of the free states)

Do not know if you could say that about a 44 mag, might be worthy of its own thread.



Yep, I think you should go ahead and the defend the interior of your home with pepper spray then report back to us. Since it's non-lethal, please to a practice run with a buddy playing the bad guy so you can report back sooner.


We are lacking a smilie for "sarcasm" or I would have used it with that post.

No sarcasm intended this time. If I am going to attempt to knock over a 250 lb buck at 25 to 75 yds with a handgun, it is going to be spitting 200 gr or better at a minimum of 1400 fps muzzle velocity.

Anything less is simply not humane in my book.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter


We are lacking a smilie for "sarcasm" or I would have used it with that post.

No sarcasm intended this time. If I am going to attempt to knock over a 250 lb buck at 25 to 75 yds with a handgun, it is going to be spitting 200 gr or better at a minimum of 1400 fps muzzle velocity.

Anything less is simply not humane in my book.


OK, now I got ya. I actually thought you were serious the first time.

BTW, you can still make faces w/o the icons by using a colon or semicolon in conjunction with some other symbols and letters. It's actually faster than icon clicking too. wink


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I think the 40 is a little on the light side for deer considering also the pistols it is usually chambered in. By the way ColdCase1984 love the photo of the SR71 Blackbird.


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Cole Younger....Maybe we are related Ummmmm! Nonetheless, the .40 S&W is NOT in the same boat as the 10mm caliber sir, no way. I would not call the .40 S&W a Stopper Caliber either. The 45acp is a Stopper yes! The 10mm is a stopper yes! The .41mag is a Stopper and so goes the .44mag but again not the .40 S&W.

If you wish to compare the Geletin Blocks that appear on a link at "AR-15.com" please do. You will see first hand the results of a 10mm round compared to the 9mm Luger, 38spl, 357mag, 45acp etc. The 10mm causes twice as much damage and penetrates deeper as well.


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FWIW, a friend got a close shot at a deer in TX last year, he never found it, since not recovered I cannot say where it was hit, etc.

What I can say, is that I would never CHOOSE to hunt with a 40, but would a 10mm.

As above, kill yes, hunt no. Survival scenario, another story.

May you have clean kills whatever you use.

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I would say yes, I have killed a bighorn sheep with one shot at 50 yds, 155 grain Speer Gold Dot. Bullet lodged under off-side hide- Sheep was running and piled up. Don't get any better than this!


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Dennisinaz.....Ok yesterday I had to shoot a goat that weighed in at around the 90-lb weight. I used a Glock model-22, using Speer 155 Gold Dot hollow point ammo.

The first shot was square in the shoulder, as animal was standing broadside to me. The second shot hit to far back (it spun around quickly) after the goat reacted to the first shot. The distance was 15 feet and neither of those shots exited the animal.

It simply hobbled around until I put a shot into it's head at 5 ft, the goat dropped and was then dead. I have also shot a coyote with the same pistol and ammo. I am telling all, I was NOT impressed with the .40 cal Smith & Wesson at all. I would never try to use this caliber on whitetail deer. I think a pistol caliber for whitetail starts with a 10mm and goes upward to the .44magnum and so on.


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We used to shoot 900# butcher steers with a .22LR. Fall over dead! A .40 S&W is still not a good deer hunting cartridge.

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Quote
Would a .40 cal pistol be sufficient to cleanly kill a deer with?



The answer is still yes. I don't think it is ideal and maybe a stretch to call it good, but it is sufficient.


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I have been told by police that they have trouble dispatching road damaged deer with their 40 S&Ws. I would suggest you look at 10mm or 41 mag or larger for deer hunting.

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Originally Posted by 222Rem
Originally Posted by VAnimrod
Originally Posted by CrazyCoot
Would a .40 cal pistol be sufficient to cleanly kill a deer with?


Kill a deer? Sure.

Good enough for hunting them? Nope.


My thoughts prezactly.

In the last 14yrs I've shot well over 100 deer and elk with a .40S&W from a Glock 22. They've all been easier, closer shots than you'd encounter while hunting because they were crippled by motor vehicles first. Long story short, the performance is not inspiring with anything other than head shots. Given half a chance I use a long gun instead.


In a former life as a state trooper I had very similar experiences. I was issued a G21 .45 and put down similar amounts of vehicle struck game. The .45 was instantly effective when head shots were used. When the critter was semi mobile and would drag itself away at a rate faster than I could keep up on foot, I would shoot for the shoulder and bust the front shoulder, putting them down so I get get close enough to put a mercy shot into the brain. At one point, one winter I was so frustrated with watching some coworkers shoot at animals, causing more suffering, I held an informal class with a couple on the anatomy of game animals. They were trying to do the right thing, they just did not know.

In regards to the .40 for deer. I know of a very small number of exceptional handgun hunters that I would be totally comfortable with them using a .40 to hunt deer with. These men are crack field shots and respect their game enough not to cause any undue suffering. For the vast majority of handgun hunters, I would say stick with a 44 mag or 45 Colt.



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You had best check your states regs,cause here a 38 special is just too short,but a .357Mag is long enough,and a Colt 45 is okay
and a colt .45acp is too short. And the 40S&W is too short,but
the 10mil because of vel and flbs it is the only short cartridge
allowed for deer and larger game!

The 10 mil is probably allowed everywhere!

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bobbyjack

the hunting regs are based on the physical length of the cartridge as opposed to caliber or energy.......

Wow.... Whack rules. What state are you ine

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I think my state (KS) goes by case length for legal handgun cartridges for deer, that would convert to powder capacity, that should convert to energy. The .38Spec, .45ACP, and .40S&W are too short. Rifle cartridges must be .24 caliber or larger. The state does many stupid things, but these appear to be right on to me.

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You can kill a deer with a 22. A 40 cal in my opinion is a bad choice.

My partner had to put down a deer the other day with a 40 cal. Muley was already hopping around on a broken leg. Bullet to the head from 15 yards slowed it down enough to get a clean headshot.

Its a decent round for a defensive weapon. Not for a clean kill on moderate sized game though. It was never designed with hunting in mind.

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