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What is the best way to cut a black walnut for gun stock blanks? What equipment will be needed? Is it better to have someone else do it? We have some trees on our farm that I would like to have gunstocks made from.
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It's better to have someone else do it.
It will need to be sawed to 3" thick slabs, and then processed in to stock blank sizes
the ends will need to be sealed with Anchorseal or similar parrafin based alternative to keep the end grain from cracking.
They will need to be stacked out of direct sunlight, out of direct wind, but not in a cold damp area
They will need to be stacked on spacers or "stickers" so that air can flow freely around all sides.
They will need to be rotated from the inside out every 3 months or so to be sure that the ones in the middle don't stay too damp.
Next you'll need to figure 1 year per inch of thickness to dry + 6months each if you're in a relatively humid climate.
Most stock-makers hate touching a blank that is less than 10 years seasoned. Yes, it'll be dry in 3-4.5, but the wood then needs to be left for a few seasons to go through all the temperature and humidity changes. This relieves the internal stresses and prevents the stock from twisting or cracking when it is machined.
Yeah, you could have someone slab it, then kiln dry it, but you still have to season it, and Kiln drying kills all the colors in Walnut. It goes from purpled, browns, greens and reds to just a flat dull brown.
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Who does this in the midwest?
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Check your local woodworking outlets Rockler Woodcraft they'll usually have bulletin boards filled to the brim with business cards and local services. you might also try posting on www.woodnet.net/forums with where you are and what you want done. There is a pretty big network there too. If you do have them sawn, just be sure to seal and stack correctly or they'll ruin quickly.
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My understanding is that the gunstock blanks come right out of the very bottom of the tree--cut it off at standard logging height and all you have is shotgun blanks with the buttstocks still in the ground.
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Campfire Kahuna
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To start with the trees need to be bigger than most folks realize... Small trees do not make decent blanks. Further, trees grown in production-style "groves" tend to be tall and straight... and totally lacking in figure. It is what the furniture makers want for consistent color and grain to minimize matching while running large groups of identical furniture parts.
Savage gave lots of good advice, but there are a couple points to refine. Walnut is not made bland by kiln-drying, but rather by the steaming most mills run it through to relax tensions in the wood and make the colors uniform, again for production furniture making.
The whole concept of kiln-drying is not to speed up the drying process, but rather to slow it. Wood left in the open will lose too much surface water, too fast and the wet, full-size inner wood will prevent the outer wood from shrinking, setting up intense stresses.
Understanding where the good figure comes from help you assess what you actually have on your stumps. It is not always easy to visiualize...
art
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utah708
That is mostly correct, but there is lots of highly figured stuff up in the tree. Almost all crotches are well above grade... Browning Gran Lightning Clitoris have wood boardsawn directly under a branch with "Vee" ripples of curl... a consistent, reliable pattern and source...
When you get into English walnut groves the marbling is often well up the tree where spalting started in on branches damaged during nut production and traveled to the bole.
A side note as a result of thinking about the branch comment... DO NOT cut stock wood from branches! It is juvenile reaction wood and will not produce stable wood.
art
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It can be done though. A relative cut some blanks out of 'Birdseye' sugar maple in the U.P. of MI over 15 yrs ago. Just this last spring we got the matching rifles & stocks completed. We started with Remington 700s & went with a Shilen 24" barrel in 22-250. The smith/rifle maker sure did ask a lot of questions as to the age of the wood & how it was dried/cured. I had to assure him a few times that we would take responsibility for any cracking after the stocks were made. It turned out very well.
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Do some looking around on simply marketing the trees. Part of the deal could be some stock blanks. Those in the wood business can realize a tree's full potential and possibly generate more dollars for you. A friend back east (WVa) sold about 25 large standing trees. Had that money been mine, I would have retired about 5 years earlier.
If it's truly fine wood, look at 6 to 9 years of air drying time before getting out the chisels.
Edited: I reinforce that one should seek out others with experience. Unless one has a wealth of trees, his first efforts are going to be research into the unknown, and it will be hit or miss on potentially generating good products. Given the potential value of fine walnut, mistakes can leave one with nothing but pile of nice smelling kindling.
Last edited by 1minute; 10/02/09.
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I worked with a guy one time that sweared that they soaked hardwood in a pond for years, but he also used to speak of turning a house around on a bowling ball. I did stack hay up in a barn loft one time that had a big supply of walnut stored in it. The owner said that it was the best place to store it for years. I would think that the center would be important to prevent warpage in the finished stock. Fajen and Bishop stocks were made in Warsaw, MO. I think that Fajen is still in business somewhere. Good luck.
Last edited by croldfort; 10/01/09.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Wood does not rot if the moisture content is below about 20% or above about 35% (very rough range with lots of variation) and it is common practice to store logs underwater, long-term and it improves the wood.
I am sorry to report Fajen is defunct...
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Look at the cost of the rock maple they're pulling out of shipwrecks in lake superior. Wood can be stored in water COLD water. Warm does nothing but speed the process
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Not sure where that info comes from, but temperature is not an issue... pH and oxygen are issues. Much wood in log form is currently stored in very warm water.
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Either way, it's best to call around.
Woodmeizer is a manufacturer of portable sawmills and they keep a list somewhere of registered owners. That and woodnet.net is a good start.
Post what you are looking for. You'll also need the dimensions of the trees. When sawn, I believe stock blanks are 3" thick x 32-34" long, 7" wide at the butt, tapering to 2" wide at the forearm tip.
I have a Mesquite Log 22" in Diameter, and 6' long, and may get 2-3 usable blanks out of it.
The pith must be avoided as it is the most unstable, and there can be some sapwood on the outside, as long as you're sure it will be machined away.
Listen to sitka about branch wood. It's barely suitable for pens, pencils, and bottle stoppers.
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It is common to let the tree soak in a lake of a long period of time before you cut and dry it.. But IMO, when your finished what have you got? Black Walnut!!!, not a wood I would normally use except for collector Win. rifles perhaps..I have seen some pretty nice black walnut over the years but 98% of it was mostly Mo. cork wood raised under too mild of conditions... IMO European walnut from Turkey, Tajikistan, Russia, is presently todays best wood and inasmuch as its a lot of work making a stock, might as well use the best of wood. Same thing with a gun barrel, use the best, that ain't the place to go cheap.. BTW, you can buy cured Black walnut cheaper than you can raise it!  You would be better off selling the tree.
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Sitka,
didn't know Browning made 'Clitoris'! is that a non-catalog item?
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Best gunstock walnut comes from large, old trees, of English or French genetics, felled before they begin to die, lose production of nuts, and rot inside.
They usually are growing in the middle of a field, with thick trunks and spreading branches. Instead of cutting such a tree at the stump, it would be excavated, the limbs removed one by one (maybe by small crane), then pulled over with a chain and bulldozer, in order preserve the crotch at the limbs, and the burl figure at the roots.
A tree like that, bought by Dakota, Beretta or Purdey, would cost $20,000 or more, standing. It would yield $100,000 or more of blanks and pistol grip wood. Today, the cutting would be planned by computer after x-raying the log, and replanned as it was cut into, using saws with as narrow a kerf as possible.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sitka,
didn't know Browning made 'Clitoris'! is that a non-catalog item? Sorry, just a slip of the tongue.... er.... typing finger...
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Lee
And I bet you learned all this on your family walnut farm with exquisite trees of new-to-the-World walnut species...
A clue... you haven't one...
art
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Sitka,
didn't know Browning made 'Clitoris'! is that a non-catalog item? Sorry, just a slip of the tongue.... er.... typing finger... Just have to bump this post to the top! TFF! John
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Lee
And I bet you learned all this on your family walnut farm with exquisite trees of new-to-the-World walnut species...
A clue... you haven't one...
art Hey that's the way they did it in Lee's Enchanted Forest.
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You kids probably think your gunstocks were cut from a Tupperware tree.
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Campfire Kahuna
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No Lee, we think you are "Special"...
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EDMHUNTER,
I know there is emotions (your farm and home grown) involved in this and hoping not to offend them. My advice is call a good woodcutter and sell the trees to him. Then take the money and buy the blank you want from a stockblank seller.
Your wish to do this yourself is admirable but save yourself a lot of time and grief.
You get to choose and what ever you do will be right for you. Above is what my experience says is prudent.
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You are right but I also wanted to make other things with the wood. I was also thinking about cutting some of the big oaks for projects. I am not doing it for money just for the memory's. I will have to get one of those clit guns to put it on!
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............. mistakes can leave one with nothing but pile of nice smelling kindling. Hmm? I always thought black walnut smelled similar to the quashed Grand-daddy long-legs we played with as kids. Nice smelling? NOT to me! 
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Good advice, LRE. Sell that black walnut tree and use the money to buy finished stock, semi-inletted stock, or high grade blank of cured English or Claro walnut.
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LRF
Practical is not an issue on many of these things but I understand exactly what you are saying. As he has other projects, other designs he will obviously go with them....
art
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There is also something about quarter sawn and other types of sawing, if you take the logs to a sawmill.
I don't know what these methods of sawing are. I read about them and saw pictures of them in books.
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Quartersawing rips the log lengthwise down the middle, then rips each half in half, so you have 4 quarter lengths.
Each of those is laid bark side down on the table with the point (center of the tree) facing up at 90 degrees. Then boards of increasing width are ripped off this quarter log.
This has almost no waste except the sawdust, an the kerf can be kept narrow because you can use a bandsaw. The different angles of grain produce interesting figure in the boards. And the wood is more stable than just ripping straight down the entire log.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Another classic hit from Lee!!!!!!!!! He must have Googled the 1940 version of "lumbering" in America! This after posting how the log would be X-rayed and cut "Best Board Next"... Though he had/has no clue what that actually means.
Newsflash for those interested... Quarter sawing is the most expensive standard form of sawing because it WASTES a LOT of wood. Seldom is it done as described.
"Through and through" is the most probable, reliable and now they find, most efficient way to cut most logs. The slices through the center of the tree are quartersawn... growth rings are perpendicular to the sides. Because wood moves more from side to side than from center out it reduces total wood movement in a board/blank.
Because stocks may be positioned at an angle in the blank (especially if cut a full 3" thick!!!) quartersawn stocks are easier to get through positioning than when locked into a thin blank...
In general, boardsawn works best for displaying marbling in great blanks and quartersawn works best for most all else, especially fiddleback which almost disappears on boardsawn surfaces.
art
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For what it is worth, the following may be the most true statement in this thread: Newsflash for those interested... Quarter sawing is the most expensive standard form of sawing because it WASTES a LOT of wood. Seldom is it done as described. IMHO
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Another classic hit from Lee!!!!!!!!! He must have Googled the 1940 version of "lumbering" in America! This after posting how the log would be X-rayed and cut "Best Board Next"... Though he had/has no clue what that actually means.
Newsflash for those interested... Quarter sawing is the most expensive standard form of sawing because it WASTES a LOT of wood. Seldom is it done as described.
art
Indeed. Glad I read down to see you had once again handed Lee his ass. Quartersawn is indeed the most wasteful and most expensive way to cut a log. Pretty much any woodworker of any experience can tell you that. I dearly love working with 1/4 sawn white oak but the price keeps me from building anything more than about once a year with it. Let's not get into ammonia fuming to bring out specks and rays or we'll be subject to more Lee "knowledge"
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Pugs,
Try quartersawn Sycamore sometime.
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Pugs,
Try quartersawn Sycamore sometime. I'll take a look at my couple local providers. Thanks for heads up, I've not used it before.
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Sitka,
didn't know Browning made 'Clitoris'! is that a non-catalog item? Sorry, just a slip of the tongue.... er.... typing finger...
If you love someone set them free
If they come back no one else liked them
Set them free again
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Quartersawing rips the log lengthwise down the middle, then rips each half in half, so you have 4 quarter lengths.
Each of those is laid bark side down on the table with the point (center of the tree) facing up at 90 degrees. Then boards of increasing width are ripped off this quarter log.
This has almost no waste except the sawdust, an the kerf can be kept narrow because you can use a bandsaw. The different angles of grain produce interesting figure in the boards. And the wood is more stable than just ripping straight down the entire log. amazing... dude just won't shut up about chit he doesn't know.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Quartersawn sycamore can be gorgeous and lacey, but tends to be quite unstable... If you use it I suggest going at it in stages when surfacing and giving it some time to stablize....
I would suggest skip-planing immediately when you get it and stickering, weighted, for as long as possible before use, as a minimum.
art
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??????? Quartersawn Sycamore....wasn't difficult to work with at all! ![[Linked Image]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/Savage345/FligerClock.jpg)
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LRF
Very nice!
Treating wood properly while drying will allow unstable stuff to be used, as you clearly show, but get a little careless at any number of stages and your gorgeous sycamore becomes firewood.
But I do love the look!
art
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Sitka, you have obviously have not time at the sawmill. I have to call you down for peddling our BS to the city boys here.
Plainsawn wood gets a little bit more wood out of the log, but much of it is going to cup when the wood dries. So what you gain in sawing, you lose more in planing.
Riftsawn wood, or radial cut to the center, wastes a lot more wood, because it requires a circular saw set to a depth of 1/2 the log, and produces a piece of waste wedge-shaped piece between every good square board out of the log.
I guess I'll have to take some photos at the sawmill so you will understand a little bit.
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again with the photos..... (?)
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Lee
Thank you ever so much! Nothing would please me more than learning more about wood from an obvious Master... Seeing as how I have an entirely different understanding of riftsawn as well... I was such a fool listening to all those other guys and reading all those books... Not to mention my own Damn Lying Eyes!
While you have you camera out how about snapping a couple photos of the SC 70, if it's not too much of a bother?
art
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Sitka, you may have refinished a few rifles and done a good job, but I own 625 acres of saw timber, am a third generation farmer of that grove of trees, and have worked felling logs and hauling them out with mule teams, to designing robotic logging equipment and computer aided sawmills. I designed and built CNC wood carving machinery, and sold stock blanks to Beretta for their SO series shotguns. I bave been building gunstocks for myself since 1967, along with a few friends who are serious hobbyists, serious in that you can't buy one of the rifles for under $5,000 second hand.
Your "understanding" of riftsawn is wrong if it was different than I explained. I will find some diagrams from a forestry school and post them.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I wait with bated breath...
I am so excited!!!!!!!!
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interesting how you managed to provide a link that discredits your own previous statement on the subject. Quartersawing rips the log lengthwise ...
This has almost no waste except the sawdust, an the kerf can be kept narrow because you can use a bandsaw. The different angles of grain produce interesting figure in the boards. And the wood is more stable than just ripping straight down the entire log. so, you're officially admitting you are wrong then ??
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UtahLefty,
You simply don't understand, and will not understand, until you spend some time cutting wood with a circular saw and a bandsaw.
You won't understand about the waste due to having to plane out the cupping of plain sawn lumber, until you cut a tree, plain saw it, and air dry the boards for a few years, then try to size them.
You don't understand the fact that a fine piece of walnut is almost entirely wasted if you plain saw it into boards with mediocre figure, when you could have gotten lots more fine blanks out of a quarter sawn log.
You aren't an expert until you have done it.
You haven't done it. I have.
I don't care if you waste your own time and effort not following my advice. Just don't mislead others.
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you're nothing if not entertaining Lee! Luckily no one really takes you seriously enough to actually spend money based on your google-fu. If you weren't so busy digging this latest hole, you might have noticed: a) I haven't offered any advice on this thread. I merely pointed out your two completely contradictory statements. b) I don't feel the need to try to convince everyone I know everything about every subject. All the time. there's quite a bit of assumption in the above post about my experience. that may be, shall we say, imprudent.....
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Utah, you don't know enough to understand what I wrote or what you read on that web page I gave you. You think you "caught" me, in a subject about which you have no direct knowledge. That's pretty amazing.
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Campfire Ranger
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again with the assumptions about someone else's experience.... here is a fairly simple concept in social interactions that has proven to be maddeningly elusive to you: a.) I don't spend all my time here screeching about my credibility on a given subject because I don't have to . People know me well enough (many in person) to judge for themselves the value of an opinion I might render. b.) on occasion it's been pointed out that something I said was off the mark, whereupon I said "Sure, I can see that". (see point "a" above) carry on.
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To bad he can't Google a clue
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We're talking about cutting walnut stock blanks.
A few of you are talking about me, because you can't talk about woodworking. Why don't you mind your own business and keep your mouth shut in these topics where you know nothing?
I think we all know the answer to that question.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Damn, and here I was thinking I stepped in dogshit this morning............
Nope, just Liar24, back again.
Can't someone flush this turd, once and for all?
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Would be refreshing if he took his own advise.
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Campfire Kahuna
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It'd be more refreshing if he were to take a healthy dose of cyanide................
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Campfire Ranger
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I doubt it. He invented the antidote.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Now, if someone would just invent the antidope for Liar24.............
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Campfire Kahuna
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Would you guys please stop distracting the Master?!? I am trying to learn something here!
NOT!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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We're talking about cutting walnut stock blanks.
<b>A few of you are talking about me, because you can't talk about woodworking.</b> Why don't you mind your own business and keep your mouth shut in these topics where you know nothing?
I think we all know the answer to that question. HA. Another assumption. How do you know who knows nothing? How do you know what we do, where we go, and what our hobbies are? You don't, and even when you're clearly pointed wrong by multiple sources, you don't have the sack to say"Hey, you know, I can see where you're coming from", or "yeah, you're right". As stated earlier. We don't sit around the internet bragging of our careers and accomplishments because we don't have too. We don't have to justify ourselves, especially to a liar.
NRA Life Member
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I know that those who can't look at the pictures I provided and understand the different kinds of sawing don't know enough to be posting on this topic at all.
When one of those know-nothings starts questioning me, or anyone else who has direct knowledge of the subject, the first thing we usually do is politely inform them of our experience. That is not bragging. If they persist, then they are being rude and obnoxious, and I really no longer care about their embarrassment and feelings of shame.
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Lee ,
I have a serious question for you about your statement that you sold wood to Beretta for their SO series shotguns...
I know quite a few folks that have worked for Beretta both in Italy and MD during the last 25 years.
I was not aware they EVER used any American grown walnut on their high grade sidelock shotguns...
I would LOVE to hear your explanation on this, unless your family farm is in France, the Balkans or Turkey..
Last edited by jim62; 10/06/09.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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That's a reasonable question, jim62.
I not only cut my own timber and sell it, but buy other wood that I do not grow, such as cherry and maple from Washington and claro walnut from California. They need white oak, red oak and yellow pine out there.
Sometimes a gun builder will find a wonderful tree which is more than he needs or can afford, because his money would be tied up in it for years. So he will put out the word to others in the wood business or gun builders, and sell off part of that tree. Don Allen, at Dakota, used to do this.
I also trade wood with all sorts of people. I have sold CNC machinery to yacht builders, so I buy or trade red oak and yellow pine with them for mahogany and teak. I trade with other gun builders for blanks of English and French walnut, and maple. People from Beretta and other companies get around; they see rifles people have built and the wood on them. When they need two pieces of matching wood for two matching shotguns, and they don't have it, they start calling.
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Campfire Kahuna
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And the pile of bullschit from Liar24 gets even deeper..........
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See my post above about why I call down rude, obnoxious people who don't have anything to add to the topic, Nimrod.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Never mind, I know better.....
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Didn't you know Beretta developed "just in time" manufacturing only to have the auto industry steal all the glory from the process? Beretta sends buyers around looking for wood for individual guns all the time.
But the truly funny part is "so I buy or trade red oak and yellow pine with them for mahogany and teak". NO BOAT BUILDER of any experience would consider red oak for a boat wood. Period! Ever!
A yacht? Special!
Red oak rots just looking at it and the tannins cause any fasteners to bleed black halos around them...
And the beat goes on!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Since Cole's Guns does a huge business in restocking and upgrading the wood on Beretta shotguns, there does seem to be demand for better wood than Beretta sometimes provides.
Turkish walnut is a bit soft for a double rifle, too. It's difficult to find the figure the customer wants in the butt stock and have the grain flow right through the grip so it doesn't split.
And actually, Beretta called a friend of mine who had a big stash of exhibition wood, and had what they wanted, but he had sold the matching blank to me, so I swapped it back to him, and he sold both blanks to Beretta.
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Campfire Kahuna
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"Turkish walnut is a bit soft for a double rifle, too."
Oh my!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing this absurd has ever been posted here before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The very best walnut anywhere just got called soft!!!!!!!!
There are meds available for your condition Lee... You need help!
art still rolling!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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this thread just keeps on giving! 
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Truly no wood is as dense as Lee 24.
But I gotta wonder, with his head planted so far up his azz, how does he manage to pull it out and post on these forums?
I swear he must be BO's missing twin brother. Full of delusions of grandeur, but absolutely no substance.
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Now I know why the wood on Beretta's generally sucks. I had to go to the Beretta Gallery in NYC just to find a nicely stocked 682 Gold E.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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He doesn't always drink beer, but when he does it's Dos Equis.
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Beretta actually began implementing lean manufacturing, and just-in-time delivery in late 2006. http://www.americanexecutive.com/in...&task=view&id=6375&Itemid=80I have been consulting in lean manufacturing since 1981, before it was a buzzword, and designed my first entire just-in-time, zero inventory, fully robotic factory in 1985. So that's another subject where you armchair Googlers need to not try to peddle your faux knowledge.
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So, no comment on soft Turkish, rotting red oak and the rest?
Isn't it time for your meds? You do realize that anyone can Google something like Beretta for a buzzword, post it and sit back and watch you make an ass of yourself by going to the EXACT same page and claiming to consult on that very topic, don't you?
It has gone beyond humor and even well beyond pathetic...
art still laughing, but feeling a little guilty
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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anyone ever notice that Lee never has a "fluid" give-and-take about a subject? He averages almost exactly one hour between posts, no matter what time of day it is. (this leaves him, on average, about 5 posts behind the rest of us in the discussion)
I bet he's on dial-up. That, or his google-fu isn't nearly as strong as we give him credit for.....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Oh, to be a moderator for just one day............
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I noticed that as well. When cornered, like recently on the Palma thread he started, he quickly changes the subject. Just as he did when he lied about working for FN and was embarrassed by Matt Williams.
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Campfire Outfitter
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So, no comment on soft Turkish, rotting red oak and the rest?
Isn't it time for your meds? You do realize that anyone can Google something like Beretta for a buzzword, post it and sit back and watch you make an ass of yourself by going to the EXACT same page and claiming to consult on that very topic, don't you?
It has gone beyond humor and even well beyond pathetic...
art still laughing, but feeling a little guilty
I know what you mean about feeling a little guilty at laughing at Lee24, Art! Showing Lee24 up feels like... well, I dunno! Perhaps like picking on the kid in the class who has Down's Syndrom must feel like -- you win the argument, but you would surely feel a little dirty! John
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I skimmed some of the comments, and some Sitka thought he had "caught" me on what I said about trading red oak and yellow pine for maple and cherry. I guess he knows so little about woods and furniture that he thinks they are using oak for gun stocks, or he just doesn't bother to read before shooting off his keyboard.
Agains, Sitka, I make furniture, too, as well as fine paneling for my house. And I designed a line of woodworking CNC machines used for building fine yachts and pianos. That is how I come to work with lots of woods. You should maybe go to the International Woodworking Show in Atlanta; you might enjoy it, and learn something.
Actually, I do have a Yugo SKS with an oak stock, and another SKS with a mahogany stock, which is much lighter in weight.
On average, both Red Oak and White Oak are harder on the Janka scale than Turkish Walnut, but so-called Turkish Walnut mostly does not come from Turkey, so its figure, grain, hardness and other factors of quality vary widely. Woodworkers like it because it is easier to work by hand.
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RDFinn, to correct you - I never claimed to work for FN. I have been in their factory more than once. And Matt Williams never corrected me - you simply don't know enough to tell that.
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I just stumbled onto this thread,
Did I understand properly? Did Lee24 just claim he invented just-in-time manufacturing AND robotics?
Wonder if he also consulted with Al Gore when HE invented the internet.
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
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I just stumbled onto this thread,
Did I understand properly? Did Lee24 just claim he invented just-in-time manufacturing AND robotics?
yeah, pretty much. oh, and ship building too. and pianos.
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No, I didn't claim to invent JIT manufacturing, but I have been applying it since 1981 as a manufacturing consultant to a wide variety of industries.
I have designed and developed, as part of a team, a wide variety of CNC machines for wood, aluminum and composites, from one to 4 tool heads, and 3 to 6 axes.
A yacht is a boat. A ship is not a boat. Now you learned something new.
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Back to the original poster, who was being told that American Black Walnut is unfit for gunstocks.... this is patently untrue.
Black Walnut can be highly desirable for furniture and gunstocks. It is harder than European walnuts (including so-called "Turkish" walnut), and it is about 8% stronger in other measurements, like shear strength, elasticity, and rupture strength.
You can confirm this by consulting the data published by the United States Dept. of Agriculture, Forest Products Laboratory.
Last year, I posted a some photos of a rifle I had recently built, in my own Black Walnut. It is a takedown Mauser in 6.5x55mm, if you care to search for it.
There is a lot more to grading walnut than just the figure, but that is all the amateur can see.
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RDFinn, to correct you - I never claimed to work for FN. I have been in their factory more than once. And Matt Williams never corrected me - you simply don't know enough to tell that. lee24, you're slippery and hard to keep on task, but as i've said & asked before: that's nice, but as i asked before: you gonna shoot or what? Are you doing any Palma match shooting right now?
Maybe I could come shoot against you. Start a thread and post the schedule. how 'bout the arizona state palma champ's - december 4-6, 2009, give you time to practice... (me too, as i haven't shot in awhile). but the question remains: which team were you on?? details. a simple yes or no will suffice, remember however you made the original offer to shoot against me, i'm just trying to facilitate your request.
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But of course you are denying that you worked for FN because Matt Williams called you out on yet another lie. I asked you directly if you worked for FN back when folks were asking about the new mod 70 when it was about to be released. I asked you how you knew about the new mod 70 and it's pending release and you stated that you worked for FN as a consultant and that you also worked for "various other firearms manufacturers" as well. You stated that you had taken pictures inside the FN plant and that you had them on your PC and needed permission to post them. Turns out the picture you posted was pirated from a newspaper article that you had nothing to do with. I don't know who you think you are trying to impress with your life failures and fantasies but I can assure you it isn't me.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Lee
"On average, both Red Oak and White Oak are harder on the Janka scale than Turkish Walnut, but so-called Turkish Walnut mostly does not come from Turkey, so its figure, grain, hardness and other factors of quality vary widely. Woodworkers like it because it is easier to work by hand."
Please explain how this could be true. In your answer include exactly how the Janka test is run and what it actually tests.
Please explain how pore size affects the test and compare and contrast the three woods and their inherent pore size differences.
Also, please enlighten further on the soft Turkish and how much fun it is to work by hand...
Also, please explain how Turkish walnut can come from somewhere else and still be Turkish... My Turkish stash was hand-picked from stacks in Turkey, so I have a fair guess at its source.
That ringing sound when rapped with a knuckle... the one that lasts and lasts and lasts gives most people a pretty fair idea of its hardness...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Lee
"On average, both Red Oak and White Oak are harder on the Janka scale than Turkish Walnut, but so-called Turkish Walnut mostly does not come from Turkey, so its figure, grain, hardness and other factors of quality vary widely. Woodworkers like it because it is easier to work by hand."
Please explain how this could be true. In your answer include exactly how the Janka test is run and what it actually tests.
Please explain how pore size affects the test and compare and contrast the three woods and their inherent pore size differences.
Also, please enlighten further on the soft Turkish and how much fun it is to work by hand...
Also, please explain how Turkish walnut can come from somewhere else and still be Turkish... My Turkish stash was hand-picked from stacks in Turkey, so I have a fair guess at its source.
That ringing sound when rapped with a knuckle... the one that lasts and lasts and lasts gives most people a pretty fair idea of its hardness... Art, do you have any idea how long it will take to Google all that info?
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10-1 odds say he answers that it would be benieth him to try and explain it to such simpletons as ourselves.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Now the trolls flip 180 degrees from claiming I know nothing, to admitting my information is correct, but,..but... I must have Googled it all.
LOL!
I actually typed it all. That's why you can't Google it up anywhere.
Next time, don't post about subjects that are someone else's career work, and you won't show yourselves as idiots.
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RWE
Think I will skip the beer and popcorn and go straight to some Irish whiskey from Nebraska, or some TN whiskey from CO or maybe some Scotch from AK... because they are all harder than the stuff they claim to make at their namesake locations.
art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Next time, don't post about subjects that are someone else's career work, and you won't show yourselves as idiots
spoken by someone who tried to school me in how to run a newspaper and on libel laws......[bleep] dumbass wont take your own advise....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Lee
No flippydoo at all... You know nothing... not even enough to Google it right! You are so full of feces your eyes must be brown...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Now the trolls flip 180 degrees from claiming I know nothing, to claiming I must have Googled it all.
LOL!
I actually typed it all. That's why you can't Google it up anywhere.
Next time, don't post about subjects that are someone else's career work, and you won't show yourselves as idiots. but are ya gonna come shoot??? that's nice, but are you gonna shoot??? supply the info and i'll have a program sent to you Are you doing any Palma match shooting right now?
Maybe I could come shoot against you. Start a thread and post the schedule. how 'bout the arizona state palma champ's - december 4-6, 2009, give you time to practice... (me too, as i haven't shot in awhile). but the question remains: which team were you on?? details.
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rattler, this thread is about gunstocks. You have nothing to add, so shut up.
And I did try to educate you about libel law, but if you couldn't soak it up, that is your fault.
My Palma posts are on the Palma thread.
Sitka, you need to do more than refinish a few stocks before you start trying to bluff your way through the subject of sawmilling walnut gun stock blanks. If you start now, you might be able to post in five years.
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My Palma posts are on the Palma thread.
not for quite awhile!!!
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Lee
Somehow I suspected your answer would be along those lines. Every post you have ever made about walnut was riddled with errors. I have been getting emails and phone calls about this thread here today and everyone really appreciates the depth of your knowledge and willingness to provide one hell of a good laugh.
Keep it up as you bring great joy to so many.
art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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lee24,
my bad, saw you just added something. course you were the one that wanted to 'shoot against' me, now i guess you really weren't serious, huh?
bummer!
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(sic)
Sitka, you need to do more than refinish a few stocks before you start trying to bluff your way through the subject of sawmilling walnut gun stock blanks. If you start now, you might be able to post in five years. You are so far out of your leaque it isn't even funny.  I've known Art for 10 years. While he may not know everything about wood, if you take the sum of his knowledge from the growth of trees at the celular level, by species, the processing of wood, both cutting and drying, and the actual application of building furniture, both rifle stocks and cabinetry, and the finishing of those wood products, you are unlikely to find anyone in the world that has such a breadth of knowledge on wood as Stinky Deer. I'm thinking he's got about 40 years in gaining and applying that knowledge. You seriously must have some sort of mental condition to spew things you know absolutely nothing about, and then go about insulting people that have tremendous experience on the subject matter when they point out your lies. You may be able to delude yourself, but nobody out there is buying any of it.
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Don't say that Lott. We're not allowed to question his knowledge, but he sure is allowed to question all of ours.
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Watching Lee24 go toe to toe with Art on wood reminds me of the classic "Bambi meets Godzilla" Introducing Lee24 as Bambi
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That's his way of saying he didn't anticipate anyone having experience in shooting Palma matches on this forum nor did he anticipate running into a credible gentlemen like Matt Williams who actually did work for FN.
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I'm glad Art, or Sitka, or whoever that is, has a few friends, but none of them said a thing about his experience. I can tell from what he and the rest of you post that you know nothing more than your read on the Internet this afternoon.
Never mind my being in the wood business from farming to manufacturing.
Never mind your admitting to having no experience other than rubbing on some Tru-oil.
For the 100th time, you can't dispute the facts about the subject when you look them up, but none of you are man enough to admit you were wrong about everything you posted... again.
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RDFinn, to correct you - I never claimed to work for FN. I have been in their factory more than once. And Matt Williams never corrected me - you simply don't know enough to tell that. Correction, I called you out for the Liar that you are, plain and simple. Your mug and a camera wouldn't have made it through the guard station at FN and that's a fact. Still waiting on that picture of of the 375............ Did you restock it in Red Oak? I consider my accomplishments fairly decent for my time on the planet, but I swear you must be 150 years old to have done half of what you claim. About what time would you suppose Winchester started implementing JIT? Careful now, this is where you might get caught in a lie again. Before you get too carried away though, keep in mind I still have the original manual......(grin) I think at this point Liar, you should make sure you post the bulletin out to all of those stockmakers heading for Reno that they're working with inferior wood. That way they don't waste their time and resources. Clock is ticking and you haven't a moment to spare.
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Never mind my being in the wood business from farming to manufacturing.
Never mind your admitting to having no experience other than rubbing on some Tru-oil.
Whoa Whoa Whoa......Stop right there....Perfect.
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Williams, I was in FN 3 weeks ago, and will be going back as soon as I get time to buzz over there. I like that new FNP pistol.
Your claiming something about Winchester has nothing to do with wood, or Beretta, or anything but your bad attitude.
I don't know if Winchester ever implemented JIT, and I highly doubt it, having been in two of their feeder factories a year before they closed, and seeing the way they did shipping to New Haven. It wasn't anything near JIT, but people claim to have implemented Six Sigma, JIT and all kinds of things when they really haven't a clue.
How would you know if they had or hadn't implement JIT?
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Ohh, I don't know.....Maybe because I produced parts for them since 1993.
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That doesn't mean you know a thing about JIT. You make a few small parts, and they had lots of parts left over both times they went broke. That tells me they didn't have any JIT system.
Why don't you tell us when they allegedly implemented JIT, and who was in charge of the program, so I can check it out?
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Did you make it into their "retail store" again Lee?
I hear they run some killer deals on those 375's with SC barrel stamps from time to time.
You'd best get up pretty early on this subject if you intend on keeping your head above water.
Since you have such a vast array of knowledge in CNC equipment, just what kind of controllers were you using and in what years? Careful now, I know something on this subject too.
I think a documentary with you, Maser, and JO at the same camp could fund my early retirement.
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That doesn't mean you know a thing about JIT. You make a few small parts, and they had lots of parts left over both times they went broke. That tells me they didn't have any JIT system.
Why don't you tell us when they allegedly implemented JIT, and who was in charge of the program, so I can check it out? LOL.....You're killing me Liar. 40,000 trigger guards per year was a "few" I guess. You can surely google the answer, rather than relying on my expertise to hold your hand can't you? With you visiting within the last couple of weeks at FN, you surely have a good contact there. Who exactly would that be Liar?
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I developed the controller, wrote all of it, including the realtime operating system, based originally on a Motorola 68000, then later on a Pentium, a new program running under OS/2. Now it is on Windows, with a subprocessor for the axis controllers.
The new one I am designing will run off STL files, G-code, and interfaced to toolpath programs like BobCAM, VisualMill, and Delcam.
Now... you still haven't answered my question. Tell me about JIT at Winchester.
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thought you worked with trees.....from planting to manufacture.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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I developed the controller, wrote all of it, including the realtime operating system, based originally on a Motorola 68000, then later on a Pentium, a new program running under OS/2. Now it is on Windows, with a subprocessor for the axis controllers.
The new one I am designing will run off STL files, G-code, and interfaced to toolpath programs like BobCAM, VisualMill, and Delcam.
Now... you still haven't answered my question. Tell me about JIT at Winchester. So you picked the 3 cheesiest CAM programs to integrate with ehh? Impressive. That's a pretty good boasting for a walnut farmer. Reckon all this was linear guides too?
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Well, gotsta get some dinner.....Can hardly wait to see what the morning brings on this subject.
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Now... you still haven't answered my question. Tell me about JIT at Winchester. lee24, that's an appropriate quote, of which i will paraphrase: now... you still haven't answered my question. which palma team(s) you been on, and are you gonna 'shoot against' me??????
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Campfire 'Bwana
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i think he was on the coconut palma team because he surely is a nut
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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my favorite line from Pirates of the Caribbean: "Do you think he plans it all out ahead of time, or just makes it up as he goes along?" there has to be, like, 2 million posts on here by now. I can't remember one single thread where there failed to show up at least one poster with specific knowledge of the subject matter at hand. how could one possibly expect to BS through those odds? yet here we have the walnut farmer come furniture maker come boat yacht builder come Robotics designer come gun designer come wildlife biologist come piano maker come computer programmer come CIA agent come Navy Seal come US Olympic Biathlete come ............
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he's a highlander (imortal) lee 24 McCload to have lived long enought to.........
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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just the tip of the iceberg on his long and distinguished resume....
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someone really should be keeping a spreadsheet on his degrees (I remember Sean had started one it seems)
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- I am a consulting engineer who develops, among other things, weapons systems, from hunting rifles to attack helicopters, as well as composite armor to defeat it, from the 9mm handgun to 155mm sabot round.
- I am a mechanical engineer, designing robotics, but also have engineered skyscrapers (mechanical, electrical, plumbing, site drainage, etc), ponds, dams, small bridges, as well as medical devices, computers, cell phones, firearms, tools, farm machinery, military aircraft and automobile components, chemical and polymer plants, and a wide array of other retail products and manufacturing process development. I have worked in 32 states, as well as overseas.
- As for my engineering degree, I have several, as well as PhD courses in specific areas related to projects, at Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC, and JPL. Since you are a pilot, I was a consultant on composites and airframes manufacturing of most of commercial and military jets, and few helicopters back in the early to mid 1980s. Current projects include development of the next generation of lightweight personnel, vehicle and aircraft armor. - my 45 years of hunting, competition shooting and firearms engineering.
- The 600,000 rounds I have fired in competition and practice
- I included the 45 years of hunting and 400,000 handgun rounds in there.
- I just renewed my hunting license for the 40th year.
- I grew up on a cattle ranch, and had spent 1,000 nights under the stars before I was 21.
- I grew up in the hardwood business, providing veneer grade walnut and oak to the furniture industry. I have been building furniture and gunstocks as a hobby for 35 years.
- I have a shop full of all sorts of walnut, some of it air drying for over 20 years. Having designed 3, 4 and 5-axis CNC machines for woodworking, I have had the opportunity to see and cut a lot of woods.
- BTY, the National Geographic Channel had a 3-part series on one of my projects just recently. We are still adding to it.
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can you call a 625 acre walnut grove in the midwest a "cattle ranch" ?
"whelp, I expect we gotta bring 'em down outta the mountains before the snow flies. Hon, I'll be gone a month at the most. Ifen I'm not back, send Jed."
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in a bizzaro world ........ya sure can
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Lee, you really are a piece of work! Been a while since we've had a thread this entertaining. Keep up the good work.
Old Corps
Semper Fi
Get off my lawn.
FJB
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Matt
"I think a documentary with you, Maser, and JO at the same camp could fund my early retirement."
Now that is funny! The possibilities are endless!
art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Every time one of this same little gang offers BS advice and someone straightens things out with the facts, the rest of the gang runs to tag up and drag him out of the ring, lay down a smokescreen of off-topic personal attacks, and form a circle to give each other a back rub.
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triggerguard vanished after being caught in his bluff about JIT manufacturing at Winchester.
... or maybe it was the fact my knowledge of CNC frightened him. He is a user of CNC, while I am an architect and developer of it CNC. He forgot to mention what program he uses. He must be Googling or talking to someone who actually programs a CNC mill.
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The facts Liar, are beyond your grasp.....
You are the only person I have ever known to turn down a free rifle in exchange for merely a picture substaniating the existence of your South Carolina 375.
I made a blanket offer to anyone who could show proof that they owned a Model 70 Super Grade in 375 H&H that had a South Carolina barrel roll stamp, just like the one you claim to own, that they could have my Super Express in 416 for free.
That sound we are all listening to now would be the crickets Liar.
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yet here we have the walnut farmer come furniture maker come boat yacht builder come Robotics designer come gun designer come wildlife biologist come piano maker come computer programmer come CIA agent come Navy Seal come US Olympic Biathlete come ............ How does he find the time to drink the Dos Equis?
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triggerguard vanished after being caught in his bluff about JIT manufacturing at Winchester.
... or maybe it was the fact my knowledge of CNC frightened him. He is a user of CNC, while I am an architect and developer of it CNC. He forgot to mention what program he uses. He must be Googling or talking to someone who actually programs a CNC mill. Vanished?? Hardly... If you built CNCs, I'm an astronaut. In CAM programs I've used Mastercam, Gibbs, Solid Cam, Camworks, and now using Alibre, with cam integrated. I've been using Solidworks since 1997 and now have switched to Alibre exclusively. Prior to all that 3d, I was using generic and visual cadd, as well as by hand on paper. It's 5:48 a.m......Like I said, you'd best get up early on this subject.
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triggerguard vanished after being caught in his bluff about JIT manufacturing at Winchester.
So were absolutely clear, you're claiming that Winchester never implemented the JIT system correct?
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Sorry, Lee, but You are digging a HOLE TO CHINA for yourself from which you will never crawl out of..
Mr Williams is a BONAFIDE parts supplier with Fn/Winchester..And USRAC before that. It's common knowledge. It's not even debatable.
You sir, are just some 'net poster WHO CLAIMS to have ties to them.
Provide PROOF .
Be a MAN and put up or shut up!!!
Produce a name of anyone with FN/Browning /Winchester that we can contact verifiy YOU have any REAL ongoing relationship with them.
I know several people in the Browing offices in Utah well enough and THEY could tell me if your contact name was bogus.
Your imaginary South Carolina made .375 H&H sure as hell has not has not been much proof.
Have you noticed that for YEARS that NOBODY on this ENTIRE FORUM believes your BULLSCHIT??????
Last edited by jim62; 10/07/09.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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Ahh...don't push him too hard right now. He's busy googling and oogling for something witty.
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- I am a consulting engineer who develops, among other things, weapons systems, from hunting rifles to attack helicopters, as well as composite armor to defeat it, from the 9mm handgun to 155mm sabot round.
- I am a mechanical engineer, designing robotics, but also have engineered skyscrapers (mechanical, electrical, plumbing, site drainage, etc), ponds, dams, small bridges, as well as medical devices, computers, cell phones, firearms, tools, farm machinery, military aircraft and automobile components, chemical and polymer plants, and a wide array of other retail products and manufacturing process development. I have worked in 32 states, as well as overseas.
- As for my engineering degree, I have several, as well as PhD courses in specific areas related to projects, at Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC, and JPL. Since you are a pilot, I was a consultant on composites and airframes manufacturing of most of commercial and military jets, and few helicopters back in the early to mid 1980s. Current projects include development of the next generation of lightweight personnel, vehicle and aircraft armor. - my 45 years of hunting, competition shooting and firearms engineering.
- The 600,000 rounds I have fired in competition and practice
- I included the 45 years of hunting and 400,000 handgun rounds in there.
- I just renewed my hunting license for the 40th year.
- I grew up on a cattle ranch, and had spent 1,000 nights under the stars before I was 21.
- I grew up in the hardwood business, providing veneer grade walnut and oak to the furniture industry. I have been building furniture and gunstocks as a hobby for 35 years.
- I have a shop full of all sorts of walnut, some of it air drying for over 20 years. Having designed 3, 4 and 5-axis CNC machines for woodworking, I have had the opportunity to see and cut a lot of woods.
- BTY, the National Geographic Channel had a 3-part series on one of my projects just recently. We are still adding to it.
you left out that he knows more bout how a newspaper is run and more bout libel laws than i do....he spent half a thread trying to explain to me how my newspaper ran and what we do bout libel and slander....though slander has minimal to do with a newspaper....apparently ive got access to huge chunk of cash to fight libel cases i wasnt aware off....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Maybe he should Google " M�nchhausen Syndrome"..
He definitely suffers from it..
I think we all should start calling him "the Barron" or
" Mr. M�nchhausen"..
It sure as hell fits..
Last edited by jim62; 10/07/09.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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Like I said, jim62 runs in to take up for "triggerguard", who keeps posting, but nothing about JIT at Winchester. He dropped his diversion of CNC like a hot potato, too. Oh, I see is is learning to use the CAD program, Alibre. Whoopee.
Now, jim62 is playing psychologist. How cute.
Making 40,000 metal parts doesn't make you an expert in anything but that - certainly not walnut for gunstocks, as we see.
You guys don't need to keep posting. Everyone understands that you have no knowledge to add to the topic of American Walnut for gun stocks.
I don't need to keep pointing that out, either. Good day!
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Libel is the written form of slander, FYI.
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Lee shouldnt you be in school right now?
I'm telling your mommy...........
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Lee, you simply don't know JIT about JIT, nor whether or when Winchester implemented it either.
I was there, so spare us all your knowledge on the subject.
You really need to seek help with a shrink, if you're not already crosstrained in that field to self-diagnose yourself.
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If you were there, why can't you tell me something about it?
Come on, I have done advanced manufacturing projects for most of the automobile, aerospace and computer companies. I understand any buzzwords you can Google up.
How about the name of the JIT project manager and some details, or some links to articles, like the one I posted about Beretta implementing its first JIT program in 2006?
Or, just admit you were bluffing to change the subject from walnut.
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Come on, I have done advanced manufacturing projects for most of the automobile, aerospace and computer companies.
so you're the one that bankrupted the auto industry ! (Crap! , this is about the timeframe Winchester went under and the F-22 got cancelled too!) you didn't install Sportsman's Warehouse's new inventory system, did you? I just got an idea on how to short-sell stock based on Lee's career moves
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As if you could comprehend a thing about my work.
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Nobody can comprehend the insane..............
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This is the proverbial train wreck.  We all know not to look, but we all still peek...  I admit to not knowing a lot of the background on the posts about Lee24 that I've seen around, but after reading this one, it all makes sense (well, sorta). It's a strange combination of humor, sadness, patheticness, and almost sympathy, to watch what this joker writes.... 
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When a train kills a bunch of drunks who were trying to derail it, that isn't a "train wreck".
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Coldbore..
Lee24s stupid schit posted here is better than ANYTHING Marvel Comics sells..
What a pathetic liar.
Last edited by jim62; 10/07/09.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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When a train kills a bunch of drunks who were trying to derail it, that isn't a "train wreck". No....but when an insane takes over the controls and doesnt have a clue to what hes doing theres always the inevitable train wreck......
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I'm looking forward to new new topic he'll switch to when he runs out of keyboard.
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When a train kills a bunch of drunks who were trying to derail it, that isn't a "train wreck". Uuuuhhhh, yeah..... That's the impression I was getting from here as well...... Uh huh........  Drive on, "engineer"........ You're in firm control here....
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You guys sure do like to avoid discussing the thread topics.
It's nice the way you lay down cover so those who shot themselves can crawl off and die.
The way you give each other back rubs to keep up your spirits is creepy, though.
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lee24, i'll bring this over from the competition page just to share, maybe you'll respond here since you've become quiet on the comp page: I no longer have my .308, just a .30-06 single shot with a 30-inch barrel and Redfield International sights.
Shooting just prone is boring, but not as bad as off the bench.
I like 3 and 4 position, like 50 and 100 meter .22 rimfire, or 300 yard matches, or running boar. Don't have time to shoot any of them these days. lee24, you were the one that challenged me to a shoot! now you're wimping out because you don't have time? what up wit dat, G????? i was even putting some ammo together! if your superior shooting skills would prefer smallbore, i'm up for that too! i could even come your direction, so long as you bring out the "sc fn .375h&h"
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What a load of [bleep]!! I hope the original poster got his answer before Mr. Know-it-all [bleep] this thread up!
Speak softly and use a big bore...
Where's El Cid when we need him...
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Libel is the written form of slander, FYI. no chit sherlockand one doesnt apply to the paper.....since you said you were such an expert in libel and slander want to try and explain to the class again just how rulings in other countries apply to US libel and slander laws....was [bleep] hilarious the last go 'round....was also kinda funny watching you explain how i deal with such cases when it was pretty obvious you have ever worked at a newspaper let alone ran one where a libel lawsuit would directly affect whether or not food gets put on the table.... try it again, this time ill invite my wife to play so you can get your arse handed to you by a gal....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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If you were there, why can't you tell me something about it?
Come on, I have done advanced manufacturing projects for most of the automobile, aerospace and computer companies. I understand any buzzwords you can Google up.
How about the name of the JIT project manager and some details, or some links to articles, like the one I posted about Beretta implementing its first JIT program in 2006?
Or, just admit you were bluffing to change the subject from walnut. Sorry, but my involvement with USRAC was prior to Google and I'm simply talking over your head, just as Art did regarding stocks. Any info provided to your pathological lying brain would be used on another site to fuel your fire. At least this way, I'm saving you the time to increase the size of your resume. Where's the PICTURE LIAR
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....And Lee dissapears to gather more google knowledge..................
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Campfire Kahuna
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I have to admit I learned quite a bit from Lee this go around...
Turkish is too soft to build a quailty stock...
Turkish does not come from Turkey most of the time...
Turkish is fun to cut by hand...
Black walnut is a superior stock wood...
Black walnut runs 8% stronger than European walnuts in shear, bending and rupture tests...
Quartersawing saves wood...
Plainsawn lumber always cups...
Beretta shops around for wood, one blank at a time...
Just imagine how much more there is to learn from such a gifted mentor...
art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Just imagine how much more there is to learn from such a gifted mental...
art
I had to fix your last word Art.
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....And Lee dissapears to gather more google knowledge.................. Naahh man, he's too busy redesigning the next space shuttle with his JPL degree or consulting on building the next unsinkable Titanic (boats, ships, yachts, yadda yadda yadda) to spend all his time explaining the intricacies of doing everything that he does to mere mortals like us.
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I had hoped some honest, interested adult posters had decided to take a chance on resuming the conversation.
Well, I see none of the peanut gallery has posted anything about the topic. No surprise there.
Sitka is listing some facts about walnut which I posted, mixed in with some of his fabricatoins that I didn't say. Cheap, cowardly trick often used by cyber punks.
Triggerguard still blusters about all his secret knowledge about Winchester which he cannot share with us. I guess he shouldn't have brought up subjects like JIT if he couldn't talk about them.
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Where you been? google boy.
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I had hoped some honest, interested adult posters had decided to take a chance on resuming the conversation.
Well, I see none of the peanut gallery has posted anything about the topic. No surprise there.
Sitka is listing some facts about walnut which I posted, mixed in with some of his fabricatoins that I didn't say. Cheap, cowardly trick often used by cyber punks.
Triggerguard still blusters about all his secret knowledge about Winchester which he cannot share with us. I guess he shouldn't have brought up subjects like JIT if he couldn't talk about them.
and the quickest way to shut all of us up.....where the [bleep] is the pic of that 375?
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Whatsamatter, boys, don't have anything to add about cutting walnut for gun stocks?
Sitka and triggerguard sure do appreciate your covering for them.
Reward each other with a back rub.
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Whatsamatter, boys, don't have anything to add about cutting walnut for gun stocks?
Sitka and triggerguard sure do appreciate your covering for them.
Reward each other with a back rub. lee24, you're one to talk - answer my queries over on the comp forum!!! (or here, even tho' it aint about wood)
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I gotta wonder Lee: when you post, do you pay any attention at all to who you're talking to ? (really, I'd like to know)
You apparently registered in 2005, that's more than ample time to figure out who is who and what individual members do both as a primary source of income and as a serious-enough hobby to generate supplemental income.
And yet.
I've watched you argue you know more about:
publishing with a newspaper publisher
camera design with a professional photographer
stockmaking with a professional stockmaker
seafaring with (several) professional charter captains
rifle manufacture with a professional parts maker
wildlife biology with a professional wildlife biologist
law with a (very) successful attorney
metallurgy with a metalurgist
computer programming with a full time computer programmer
competition shooting with several (very) well known shooters
and on and on..... A great many of us are known by our real names. I cannot put too much emphasis on that. Really.
stop for a minute. just stop for one full minute and think about that.
is it any wonder you're a laughingstock? I expect any day now to log on and find you arguing with Ken Howell that he's wrong about one of his books, because "you know Ken Howell".
It's baffling. And not really funny at this point. It's more sad than anything else.
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Where you been? google boy. He's been in between fry orders at BK....Better get him to show pics now, or else the lunch crowd is going to have him overwhelmed. Thanks for the backrub guys. I was sweating it there for a minute that I'd have to finally confess that I'm not a manufacturer of gun parts, have never ran CNC machinery, and had never been to the Winchester factories, let alone complied with JIT manufacturing techniques as early as 1994. The problem I'm having with my fantasies at this point, is the fact that I've got Purchase Orders, Quality Control Manuals, and said parts within arms reach of me. Make the voices stop Lee...I give.
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No, I haven't, Lefty, and I don't accept your assertion that any of these people are such professionals. I disputed specific things which I knew to be correct. I explained why they were wrong, and backed it up with other experts. None of that is going to be enough for some of you, because your root problem is an inferiority complex.
It doesn't take much to send those people over the edge. They see anyone else who even corrects the most minute detail as a threat to their web persona as some expert. They have to try to build themselves up by attacking others.
You probably didn't understand the discussion between myself and any of those other wounded egos on subjects like libel or computer programming ( I don't recall such a discussion ). So I really don't worry about your being snowed by their smoke and disliking me for explaining why is is smoke.
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triggerguard, everyone knows you make small gun parts. You tell us every day, several times a day.
Just don't try to BS this manufacturing expert with baloney about JIT at Winchester or anywhere else that you can't back up. Next time you are unable to discuss the topic, like walnut, don't choose as your diversion another topic you can't discuss, either.
I have to get back to work designing my 4th generation CNC machine, including all the software to run it. Do any of you comprehend that requires me to be a mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, and a software engineer (and not just a mere "computer programmer")?
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No, I haven't, Lefty, and I don't accept your assertion that any of these people are such professionals. I disputed specific things which I knew to be correct. I explained why they were wrong, and backed it up with other experts. None of that is going to be enough for some of you, because your root problem is an inferiority complex.
It doesn't take much to send those people over the edge. They see anyone else who even corrects the most minute detail as a threat to their web persona as some expert. They have to try to build themselves up by attacking others.
You probably didn't understand the discussion between myself and any of those other wounded egos on subjects like libel or computer programming ( I don't recall such a discussion ). So I really don't worry about your being snowed by their smoke and disliking me for explaining why is is smoke. what about me, lee, what about me????? you challenged me to a shoot, i wanna shoot, now you're slinking off - what gives!!????
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wmeek, you probably want to play Michael Jordan in basketball and Federer in tennis, too.
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your the one that claimed to be 'superior', i just want to compete...
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utah
I believe you left out arguing forestry with a Professor that has visited here as a consultant on the Kenai Peninsula spruce bettle problem... Among many other things.
art
details given to make clear it was another poster and to avoid identifying him... ha may want to do some leading...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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wmeek, you probably want to play Michael Jordan in basketball and Federer in tennis, too. nope, not at all. you challenged me to a shoot. if jordan or federer challenged me to play their game i would be honored as well - they didn't, you did! so let's do it! really want to know which palma team(s) you've been on, or did you misrepresent yourself when you claimed you shot palme?
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I gotta wonder Lee: when you post, do you pay any attention at all to who you're talking to ?
You apparently registered in 2005, that's more than ample time to figure out who is who and what individual members do both as a primary source of income and as a serious-enough hobby to generate supplemental income. No, I haven't, Lefty, and I don't accept your assertion that any of these people are such professionals. there you go. that about sums it up, I think.
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I have to get back to work designing my 4th generation CNC machine Deep Fryer, including all the software baskets to run it. Do any of you comprehend that (it) requires me to be a mechanical Fry engineer, electrical expanded metal engineer, and a software ketchup engineer ("computer programmer" not just a mere "do you want fries with that counter-hugging mouth breather)? There Liar...I fixed it based on your recommendations from prior posts, so that we could all understand it.
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lets see....my name is Sheridan Shumway....my wife is Darla Shumway....the two newspapers i own are in my sig(you will see three papers but we partnered with a buddy who has a paper to the north of us) and if yah look at the Montana Newspaper Assosiation site you will find that my wife is a board member there: http://www.mtnewspapers.com/articles/2009/10/01/about/3mnaadvertising.txta couple members here know me personally and one is even very good friends with one of my uncles and a cousin of mine...one member here has stopped into the office to see me aswell unannounced....ive never tried to hide who in the hell i am and have had an open invention to any and all here who happen to be in my neck of the woods to stop in and see me, no notice required..... just who in the [bleep] are you and whats your name?
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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I believe you, rattler. You simply don't understand the law of libel and slander, maybe because newspaper get such a free reign to commit it more than an ordinary citizen or business would. If you don't believe me, you need to hire a better lawyer than you have.
I offer that advice not only as someone who has studied the law in a major law school, but as one who founded and ran a small weekly newspaper for two years, until the others went off to jobs as editors at big city papers, and weekly news magazines. Two of my attorneys and close friends are recognized experts in the field of communications law, including libel by newspapers. Nothing I have told you would be disputed by them.
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I have to get back to work designing cleaning my 4th generation CNC machine Deep Fryer, including all the software baskets to run it. The assistant manager said I had to do it before my mom picks me up at the end of the day. Do any of you comprehend that (it) requires me to be a mechanical Fry engineer, electrical expanded metal engineer, a software ketchup engineer, and an industrial cleaner engineer ("computer programmer" not just a mere "do you want fries with that counter-hugging mouth breather)? There Liar...I fixed it based on your recommendations from prior posts, so that we could all understand it. There Matt, fixed what you missed.
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Lee, I have no doubt that you are well educated and know your way around computors and such. What I don't understand is why you lie about things such as owning a particular rifle and working for a company such as FN. Why don't you just accept your life experiences for what they are.
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lee24, you responded to rattler, but you didn't answer his question: just who in the [bleep] are you and whats your name? or mine: wmeek, you probably want to play Michael Jordan in basketball and Federer in tennis, too. nope, not at all. you challenged me to a shoot. if jordan or federer challenged me to play their game i would be honored as well - they didn't, you did! so let's do it! really want to know which palma team(s) you've been on, or did you misrepresent yourself when you claimed you shot palme? 'fess up!
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Lee
"...free reign..."
Believe that would be "free rein" to a newspaper guy...
art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Sitka, unable to discuss the thread topic, desperately searches for typing errors of other posters who actually do have expertise in building gunstocks.
RDFinn, I don't understand why you keep repeating that accusation, when I have told you at least four times that I never worked for FN, and never claimed to work for FN. I have known people who worked there over the years, been in the facility several times since 1979, and discussed consulting to them, but never fit it in to my schedule. So you tell me, why do you persist in posting your same fabrications about me?
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Because that's exactly what you told me right here. Why would I make that up. At the time, I had no reason in the world to doubt you.
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I've been trying to keep this organized in my head, but it ain't working. thought I'd make a list regarding Lee24's lifetime accomplishments.
Studied law as noted above.
Walnut tree farmer
Rifle stock carver
Engineer
Consultant to firearms company's
Consultant to the weapons industry
Inventor
Owner of the rarest .375 in the history of .375's
What did I miss???
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So what? I know many people with careers more varied than that.
I comes from working for 40 years, and accomplishing 3 times as much every day as the average do-nothing wage slave.
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So now I've straightened you out, Finn.
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No you haven't "straightened" me out, you are just backpedaling on a blatant lie. Of course and as usual, you provide no answer for the question asked. Why do you feel the need to pump yourself up with all these BS accomplishments? Is your sterile life really that pathetic and boring?
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So now I've straightened you out, Finn. lee24, straighten me out, answer my questions: -gonna come shoot? -which palma team? -have you misrepresented yourself? pretty simple, really
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I've been trying to keep this organized in my head, but it ain't working. thought I'd make a list regarding Lee24's lifetime accomplishments.
Studied law as noted above.
Walnut tree farmer
Rifle stock carver
Engineer
Consultant to firearms company's
Consultant to the weapons industry
Inventor
Owner of the rarest .375 in the history of .375's
What did I miss??? Certified Moron.
Old Corps
Semper Fi
Get off my lawn.
FJB
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So what? I know many people with careers more varied than that.
I comes from working for 40 years, and accomplishing 3 times as much every day as the average do-nothing wage slave. and yet yah have plenty of time to post on here.....i know plenty of individuals who have accomplished alot of stuff in their lives, sometimes hard to believe amounts if they hadnt offered proof but without exception i noticed two things....these individuals had no problem supplying proof and they didnt have time for this sorta bullchit....if posting on an internet forum was that important to them and they took the time you do to do it, they wouldnt have done the chit they did..... as for as libel laws....as i said in the other thread.....i do not have the war chest that the NYT has, i have to pay close attention to the libel laws if i want to continue owning this paper...i get threatened with law suits all the time but there hasnt been a single lawyer thats taken up a case against us BECAUSE we know and understand libel laws you dumb [bleep], we dont print rumors, we print public record....and we have to explain these lawws to ppl all the time cause we live on an indian reservation and there is a tribal newspaper that DOES NOT have to pay attention to these laws so we get questioned all the time as to why they print something and we dont... also the proof you posted in the other thread was of cases that took place in other countries and cases that had nothing to do with libel laws or at most it was a minor foot note in conjunction with more heinous crimes such as pedophilia... you really are to stupid to even read the links you post....
Last edited by rattler; 10/07/09.
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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I forgot the High Level Security Clearance and the fact that you consult in the Aerospace Industry (you did say that right?)
Lee,
It's very rare that one person can earn so many high level degrees and be an expert in such a broad spectrum of industry.....
Then you put posts up here which YOU claim are right, but you offer no validation of your claimed facts....
If you really are the person you say you are, this should be as elementary as wiping your Azz.
Are you a PhD? if so, post a pic of the certification. A patent, any degree at all, pictures of you with a kill, pics of you shooting, or the KING of all pictures.... the .375
you must love the constant beat downs.
Did you get your Troll costume for Halloween yet?
Last edited by CLB; 10/07/09.
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Lee Here is a photo of a stock made from a stick by a kid of 14. It is his second stock cut by hand from the square blank. I am thinking he has two more stocks under his belt than you. art ![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/peckpartyof3/riley%20stocks/rileystock1.jpg)
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Lee Here is a photo of a stock made from a stick by a kid of 14. It is his second stock cut by hand from the square blank. I am thinking he has two more stocks under his belt than you. art Unlike Lee's father, you must be one PROUD Dad!!!
NRA Life Member
"All hunters should be nature lovers"
~Theodore Roosevelt~
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CLB, the proof of my having done something is that I know all the intimate details of the projects. I can explain what I have done. Some reader's inability to understand technical subject at any level is not my fault, when I was talking with others who do understand.
Sitka, glad to know that kid would let you use a photo of his stock. Nice job. It looks like American Walnut, which you said was unsuitable for gun stocks. ROFLMAO!!
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pssssssstttt, lee24, i'm waiting.........
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