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I'm looking to get a new heavy-weight base layers. For you guys that have tried both, do you prefer merino wool or Patagonia Capaline 4? Does one fight BO better than the other? I've never tried the merino wool and thought I would ask. Thanks.

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I've found merino to have a "drier" warmth to it than synthetics. Even when you are kicking off excess moisture via evaporation it stills feels warm(er) to the skin versus the evaporative cooling effect with the synthetics.

Though not as soft - and can get that wet dog smell when wet (even when brand new), I've found the natural fiber better at keeping the inevitable plastic stink at bay.

Merino might not be as durable, but then again it isn't made out of recycled water bottles. wink


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I agree with Allen's assessment. While synthetics my technically dry out faster than wool, I'm still never as warm while it's happening. For me, wool has a much wider comfort range too. And there's NO contest between merino and synthetics with the stick control. Wool will get the wet dog smell (I've kind of grown to accept it as a "outdoor smell" and don't mind it), but synthetics will quickly build and hold plain old human odor. Sometimes it's even hard to completely wash out.

Yes, sythetics will wear longer than wool. But to me, that's like celebrating a longer visit from your Mother In Law. I've got synthetics I finally parked in a drawer, rather than trying to wear them out.



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I have used both and prefer the Merino wool, lighter and doesn't smell after a couple days use.

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I'll second what these guys have said. Merino doesn't dry as fast, but it is much more comfortable when wet. You don't get the same chill as with synthetics, which leads to a much wider comfort range for active use. It's more resistant to odor (though not odor proof) than even the newest silver-ion impregnated synthetics.

That said I was recently given a piece of Mammut Alpine Underware to try out. It uses three different fabrics, two wool/synthetic blends and a straight synthetic, body mapped to where you need the properties of each the most. I haven't personally worn it enough yet to give an opinion, but I have a couple friends who have been testing them for a year and love them, so I'm optimistic. Prolite Gear should have them in stock this week.

Coincidently the wool/synthetic blend isn't a new concept. That is what Patagonia's wool has been (75%-25%), I believe from the beginning.


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Originally Posted by Carl_Ross

Coincidently the wool/synthetic blend isn't a new concept. That is what Patagonia's wool has been (75%-25%), I believe from the beginning.


I just checked my Patagonia 1/4 zip top and it's "100% wool, exclusive of trim." It feels like it too. Great top for the money IMO.

FWIW, with any wool garments (tops, bottoms, socks, shirts, whatever) that have a "wool percentage," I give them a mental letter grade based on their percentage of wool. Less wool in the the blend means its less of a wool garment. Woolrich for instance makes most of their stuff with 85% wool. I then factor in the weight of the garment, and decide if 85% of that material would make a decent 100% wool garment that's 15% thinner. Kind of a SWAG, but WTH. Things like socks need some synthetics to stay together and hold their shape, so I aim for a minimum 70% Merino with them. Everything else I want 100% wool if I can get it. Just my .02c.


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I've got some of the grid capilene they're now calling capilene 4. I like it quite a lot but it's not nearly as warm as the old polar weight which was a very warm light fleece. The new stuff is more comfortable over a wider range and seems more comfortable when damp as it stands away from the skin. It's a significant improvement over the old mid weight capilene. The new stink control treatment seems to work ok. The stuff wears well and packs down well.
I like lighter wool underwear and particularly like an old set of two layer underwear with the wool on the outside layer. That was the best wicking baselayer I've ever had. Even though it was two layer, it was about midweight.
I haven't used the heavier merino stuff you can get now that you're looking at. I don't think you'll be disappointed in the capilene 4. Enough guys on here sing the praises of the good merino wool so I suspect you'll be pleased either way.

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I would question the use of heavy base layer clothing. The base layer's job is to keep you dry or to dry you out as fast as possible. Keeping you warm is the job of the insulation layer. Trying to combine the two can back fire on you. It, for instance, will take longer to dry out. I usually use just their Silkweight, or, if it's near, or below zero, their medium weight.
My expereince with both of Patagonia's Merino Wool and Capliene in the medium weight is that the Capliene dries out much faster. The wool is warmer, but that doesn't mean much when you have other clothing along for warmth.
This fast drying quality I find really important when I do a tough climb over a few miles before sunup and then stop to glass for an hour or two. That's where Capliene has it all over Merino Wool. E

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I originally bought their Capilene top (#3 I think, since I gave it away) as I was under the impression that it was real soft, I either saw that in their catalog or imagined it... as it was kind of scratchy to the point of being uncomfortable...ended up getting their merino wool top, which I am very happy with. Check their website, as they sometimes have sales, got their merino wool top for about 1/2 of retail.

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Originally Posted by 222Rem
I just checked my Patagonia 1/4 zip top and it's "100% wool, exclusive of trim." It feels like it too. Great top for the money IMO.


Interesting. The Patagonia website says the same thing. Next time I see the Patagonia rep I'll ask him how this meshes with what he told me (see previous post), as he stressed how they used synthetic fibers to create a thread that would hold together without chemical treatments.

BTW, I wore that Mammut base for the last three days, and while it wasn't the most intensive test, I remain optimistic. Comfy, dry, and odor free.


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Originally Posted by Eremicus
My expereince with both of Patagonia's Merino Wool and Capliene in the medium weight is that the Capliene dries out much faster. The wool is warmer, but that doesn't mean much when you have other clothing along for warmth.
This fast drying quality I find really important when I do a tough climb over a few miles before sunup and then stop to glass for an hour or two. That's where Capliene has it all over Merino Wool. E


I've got to partially disagree with you here, E. (which is only, of course, my experience vs yours). Although I will agree with you 100%, on that base layers should be thin as a rule, vary insulation layers for warmth instead.

While I agree that Capilene dries quicker than wool, I find that once I sweat it up and stop, I get so cold so quickly in the Capilene while it's drying that it often isn't practical to wear it alone while waiting for it to dry. When I used mostly Capilene, I'd often carry two layers and let the one I wore hiking in/up dry while glassing in the other. With wool, while it dries slower, I am warmer and more comfortable in it while it is drying, allowing me the time to wear it dry without chilling.

When I used Capilene, I'd bring changes of layers. With wool, I bring only the top I wear, even for week long trips.

I've got a drawer full of Capilene, and I'm contemplating selling much of it off, as I'm pretty well sold on wool or blends as of today.


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I'm using the lightest smartwool as my base layer and really like it. I bought some Cap 4 last year in Ketchikan for "just in case". Boy was I glad I did. When the snow came down on the goat hunt, I used the wool as a base and the Cap over it. I was comfortable that way, even making the climb. But like E said, you can really get trapped if the weather warms up much. Gawd, I had a friend give me a pair of Polar weight military long johns, and I wore them one year to the deer stand, I felt like I was sweating in a plastic bag.....miserable.
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Thanks for the posts. I'm looking to get a heavy base layer for less physically demanding hunts that don't involve a lot of hard work or easy hiking in really cold (15-25 degrees) weather. I've gt some mid weight wool and some Cap 4 on the way. Figured I'd try them both and send the one I don't like back to Cabela's. I've got Cap 2 for the harder hunts. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to try them all and go from there. I may just use the Cap 4 for tree-stand hunting here in GA.

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Carl, I'm wondering what you use on top of the Capliene for insulation ? I use Patagonia'a Regulator fleece. That way, the Capliene base layer dries much faster than I can chill even when it's soaking wet. The Regulator Fleece dries/passes moisture far faster than any other fleece I've used. Better than wool as well.
The best way to do this is to make sure youy change out of any hard shell top you've been wearing. Even if it has pit zips. Adding more insulation, as long as it passes moisture well, helps too. E

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My experience mirrors Carl's.

I also layer wool over wool, unless I am using a synthetic or down puff style jacket.

I never wear a hardshell unless it's raining and even then, I'll often just wear wool and keep it on until it dries.

I have a bunch of Regulator Fleece and it's OK but anymore it stays home and the wool gets to go hunting.


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Not to complicate things too much but there is another option. I ran into a Helly Hansen rep. friend of mine the other day and she was kind enough to set me up with their latest hybrid baselayer tops.
It is sold as HH Warm - and their write up is this combines LIFA� T3 hollow fiber technology with merino wool to deliver exceptional warmth and moisture moving management at a minimal weight.
While I have been loving the all wool stuff lately I am always trying new gear out. This is much more comfortable then any other synthetic I have tried and the combination with the wool is a noticeable improvement. I tried a earlier version of this a few years ago and it was functional but not as comfortable. They have since refined it and it has a much softer feel and the function is impressive. Just thought I'd toss that option out there.

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If it's cold enough to wear while moving, sometimes I'll use a microfleece over my base. I think I'm going to try both a Patagonia R1 Hoody and an I/O Bio wool hoody in that roll this year. If it's windy, I'll add either a wind jacket or soft shell, depending on temperature and brush. To add warmth while sitting, it's synthetic or down puffy insulation, belay jacket style.


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Carl, Ed, Brad etc-I pretty much just wear silk longy's on top and bottom and have done so for eons. My only complaint is that they wear out a bit quicker than I would like.

I wear em under cotton and under my light wool pants and my heavy wool pants.

My experience has been very good with them and I'm wondering what your experience has been with silks?

Many thx

Dober

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Another vote for silk base layer. I use them under wool outerlayers to about 0 F temps and use them under mid weight wool covered with outer wool layers if colder. I buy multiple sets in the spring at closeout prices since they do wear out quickly. This works great for northern MN winters and may be too warm for milder climates.

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I like merino wool late in the season when it's really cold and you aren't going to be sweating too much, even when working hard. Otherwise I really like the Capilene, it's warm, drys quickly and doesn't smell. Some of the smart wool stuff really gets pretty stinky, pretty quickly, although the merino wool is better.

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