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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
A 22" 280AI with 162's,will smoke a 24" 7Remmie with 150's in veddy,veddy ugly fashion.
4 pokes in the belly sweetens the pot........................ I know that  ........but I'll stick the 162 in the 7Rem...bingo! We don't need 4 down,do we?  Besides,we can only carry one of these things at a time!
Last edited by BobinNH; 10/30/09.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,091
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,091 |
I like the 270 just fine. I am on my third rifle in that cartridge. I just don't think it is worth the trouble to Ackley improve it. The gains are too little.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795
"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
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Instead of the AI treatment you should just get a 24" barrel chambered in good old regular .270 Win.
Ken Waters, Jack O'Connor and I have all found that the 2 extra inches of barrel increases velocity of the .270 Win by over 100fps with the same load and bullet.
Increasing the case capacity through the AI treatment will show very little gain over standard .270 when shot through a 22" barrel.
I was amazed at the velocities I got from the same loads when I got my LH 700KS with it's 24" barrel.
Quite frankly I don't understand why any mfg would handicap the great .270 Win with a 22" barrel. I'll never own another .270 without a 24" or longer barrel.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
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The so called "AI" cartriges are a waste of time. The benefits are minimal.
You will reduce the value of your rifle and gain almost nothing.
On the other hand guns are fun to fool with and don't cost all that much.
All guns should be locked up when not in use!
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
Qouting Ken Waters on the .270 Win.
"...reducing barrel length below 24 inches is like installing a governor on a sports car to restrict its speed."
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 833
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 833 |
Here's what really got me thinking about the .270 AI that has the possibilities up higher than the 280 or 280AI? I don't know... [quote=RinB] I think the 270AI is interesting though, the new RL-17 powder may get the 270AI into WSM velocity. SAEED: Several people used this rifle (270 AI) on several African safaris, bagging well over 100 big game animals, including all the larger plains game such as sable, zebra, kudu and waterbuck. Most were shot using the Barnes X 130-grain bullet, although some were shot with the Trophy Bonded 140 grain Bear Claw. Both bullets performed without a single failure. Wmramse- Primos Cabin- The only differences in AIs vs. their standard versions are much less (if any) body taper, longer body and neck, but shorter shoulder set to 40 degrees instead of the typical 17 degrees (for the '06 family). The sharper shoulder angle and less body taper help to burn powder more efficiently, and the overall cartridge design means easier chambering and less bolt thrust. Add in the extra powder and you can get roughly the same ballistics as a .270 WSM.
Nathanial- 150 TSX's go at 2950 with 59 grains of H4831sc
130 Accubond's at 3210 with 61 grains of H4831sc
Both loads shot over my Oehler.
60 grains of can be got into the case with the 150's but with a fair amount of compressing. 59 grains is the accurate load in my rifle so that is where I keep it.
...With the new powders I think the 270AI is a real consideration reguardless what might have been the opinion when these new powders were not avail.. Also the 270AI with a 110 sierra at 3500'/sec is a serious coyote getter. My 270 AI has now accounted for a Rocky Mt Bighorn Ram, a Desert Bighorn Ram, quite a few wild hogs, African plains game, a Thar, and a few big muledeer. Would recommend if someone likes to reload and tinker with their hunting rifles..Good hunting John Lots of praise- and why I ask- would you give a 270AI as an option for a mountain hunting rifle for sheep, goats, mule deer, black bear and some coyotes and wolf?
Monster Whitetails are Awesome!!!
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Posts: 58,228
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
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You'll not catch me making mention of 150's in anything .284",but you were lauding 150 Factory loads in your 7Remmie,like they were sumptin'. They ain't.
Is 2-4" of barrel length decrease and adding another round in the belly,a fair trade,when musing a 280AI over a 7Remmie? I'm of the opinion that such things start hedging real world bets rather nicely,as per a utilitarian rifle that is actually shot in the field,as opposed to one speculated upon.
Gimme the Montucky 7WSM...mainly because I shoot 'em all..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228 |
2" of barrel won't cost a 25-06 100fps.
Rest assured that ain't a guess................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 833
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 833 |
With the new powder, the 270 AI seems faster than a regular 270WSM and almost a Weatherby- It looks like with biger bullets that it might surpass the 280 and 280AI in capabilities too? NEW TECHNOLOGY MAXIMIZES VELOCITY
Alliant Powder introduces Reloder� 17, a smokeless powder that utilizes new technology to increase projectile velocity in most standard rifle calibers and the new short magnum cartridges.
CALIBER BULLET VELOCITY GAIN
270 Win 100 gr HP 3554 +118
Caliber Bullet Case Primer COAL Chg Wgt Velocity
270 Win 100 gr Fed Fed 210 3.100 59.0 3554
Monster Whitetails are Awesome!!!
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
But according to experts I trust such as Mr. Waters and Mr. O'Connor, as well as my own experience, 2" of barrel length lost WILL cost the .270 Win over 100 fps.
2" extra barrel length is no handicap that I can see.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,458
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,458 |
With the new powder, the 270 AI seems faster than a regular 270WSM and almost a Weatherby- It looks like with biger bullets that it might surpass the 280 and 280AI in capabilities too?
And if you load 17 into the WSM and WBY you will get higher speeds. Pressure for pressure with the same barrel length, no Ackley round is going to get within 200 fps of a magnum round. Outside of saving yourself time trimming brass the Ackley is most overrated. You can load it's unimproved daddy to within 50 to 75 fps of it.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228 |
You are as full of [bleep] as they are,if you even begin to muse such a copious load of BS........................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228 |
A 26" 257Wby doesn't have 200fps on a 24" 25-06AI....let alone one in 26" That ain't a guess.
A 24" 7mmRemmie doesn't have 200fps on a 280AI...that ain't a guess.
'Course,I shoot em all................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
I liked the bumper sticker I saw in Montana that said
"You ain't S*** unless you have a 280" only thing wrong it should have been a 280 AI.
270 is hallowed and sacred don't mess with it. Besides a 270wsm will beat the 270 AI with no great pains. If you really want to trump them all get the 270 Roy and be done with it.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,228 |
WSM and 2.5" Roy capacities rate another peek................(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
My Tikka T3 with 24" barrel chambered in .270 WSM is no faster weight for weight than my 24" .270 Win.
Not only that but the WSM's (I've owned the 7 WSM and the .270 WSM) were a pain to load.
I haven't even mentioned the fact that the WSM's have the less than optimal rebated rim on them too.
.270 Roy I'll give you. Very nice round.
To the original poster I'll say again that the plain old .270 Win WITH A 24" BARREL will give you more of everything than a 22" .270AI.
You have to pull the barrel to do an AI as well so I'd recommend either buying a 24" barrel for your present rifle or find a 24" rifle already chambered to .270 Win. They are plentiful for you right handers, not so much for us lefties.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Posts: 1,477
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
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I'd be interested for a quoted reference from Jack O' re: the 24-inch .270, for, IIRC, he shot and recommended the 22-inch version, claiming 3140 fps in his handloads using 4831.
Last edited by John_G; 10/30/09.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Why don't we just say that the difference between a 270. 280 Ackley and a 7RM is basically the same, up or down. I'm a reloader so you might as well add the costs to reload each if discussing all the merits. 280 brass is cheaper than 7 mag and in a pinch you could use 06 brass as well for the standard or Ackley version of the 280. Less powder, recoil, muzzle blast and usually packaged in a light config make the 280 Ackley more attractive to me than the 7RM. Unless your ammo doesn't make it to your destination for some reason (and everything it was packaged with) ammo availability is a non-starter for me. For me, it's the sum of little gains that make the whole package more attractive than either the 270 or the 7RM. Won't argue the paper ballistics cause that's all that it is, paper and arguing.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
On page 1030 of Ken Waters' pet loads 8th edition Ken writes;
"In a letter years ago, Jack O'Connor told of two of his .270 Winchester rifles, one having a 22 inch barrel that chronographed 95 fps less than his 24 inch barreled rifle with 130 grain bullets and the exact same load. It's interesting to note how closely that difference agrees with my findings."
As for Mr. O'Connors preference I have no information.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 893 |
A few yeas ago somebody, I think it might have been Boddington, did a comparison of the .270 Win. and .270 WSM. He used the same rifles with the same length barrels. He said that with some loads the WSM was faster and with others the .270 Win was faster. At the end of the article he said if he owned one or the other he wouldn't sell it to get the other, not enough difference.
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