Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Winchester 94 in 30-30 or 44-40?

Went piggin the other day with me trusty bolt action in very heavy rainforest. Saw some boars but it made me realized that I need something quick and has heaps of whoop. Also if the bullet hits a leaf or twig it wont deflect to much. The max distance will be about 50 metres. I was learning towards the 44-40 as it has more hiting power than a 308 at that distance. I wont use a scope looking at williams peep sights. What do you guys think?

.30-30

More power, more rifles/loads available in that chambering..

Ingwe

Definately .30-30

So if I used roughly 240grn flatnose projectiles in the 44-40, the good old 30-30 can still out perform it? I have no worries about getting a 30-30. I will reload either one.

.30-30.

Load 170s, and carry on.

Though, if you want something that has "heaps of whoop", look at a .45 Long Colt or .454 Casull in the Rossi 92 Puma.

I'd go with 30-30 as well, but I think our feelings over here may be colored by where we live. The 44-40 over here is more popular than it was twenty years ago, due to cowboy action shooting. It is still not popular enough to be carried by Wal Mart. Whether WM, our largest retailer, carries a round is the way I and many other people measure whether it is a popular round. WM carries what sells. Still, you can get it other places and any well-stocked gun shop will have it. The 30-30 is overwhelmingly popular in America. It is so much so that even though I'm set up to reload for it, I don't. The ammo is plentiful and relatively cheap. It also doesn't benefit from handloading much, ballistically speaking. The 44-40 does, as most of today's 44-40 rounds are cowboy action loads, which are tailored for targets and quick aquisition of same. They are underpowered. Also, we have many old and weak guns that shoot it and that is another reason.

If the 44-40 is still popular in Australia, I see no reason why it couldn't be a good hog round too. With proper handloading, it rivals the 44 Mag. in performance, and I'm sure lots of people here would carry a 44 Mag. hog-hunting. All in all though, unless you are willing to buy a good gun and handload to top levels, the 30-30 will surpass it. The 44-40 is also not an easy round to handload. The cases are delicate and easily crushed. This is about the only advantage over the Magnum other than availability of both guns and ammunition.

I have both. I also have some 44-40 I handloaded about twenty years ago that runs about 1100 fps with a hardcast lead 210 grain SWC over a copper gas-check.

One more thing about the 44-40, there are currently no carbide dies for it. Of course there are none for the 30-30 either.

Another option could be the 44 Magnum. Over here, the guns for it are a bit more available. Marlin, for instance, has made sporadic runs of modern 44-40 carbines, but has made a Magnum ever since I have been a shooter. The 44-40 carbines tend to be in expensive, complicated, old actions that are too weak for the good stuff. The '92 action is an exception and is available in several guns here in 44-40. But the same is available in the Magnum cartridge too.

To answer your last question though, the 30-30 will always outperform the 44-40. At really close ranges, and loaded to its maximum potential, the 44-40 might be better against hogs. I'm talking loads at least as hot as I mentioned in my last post. Loads on a par with the 44 Magnum. "Might" being the operant term here.

Another thing about the 44-40 is that you will have to determine what bullet your rifle digests best. Older guns will take a .426 to .428 bullet. Newer ones do too OR sometimes will do best with a .428 to .430 diameter slug. Reason being they are trying to standardize with the .44 Mag. which takes the latter. Also, the .44 Mag. generally is utilized with a heavier bullet than the 44-40. 44-40's are typically around 200 grains as compared to the Magnum's 250. Not that you can't handload heavier bullets in the 44-40. All in all, you can see that over here, sometimes the 44-40 is just not worth the effort when you've got the .44 Mag. I like the 44-40 too, but that's my opinion.

Good luck!

Definitely the 30.30. If I were to use a pistol cartridge it would be the 45 LC because of the ease of loading. A friend has the Rossi in the .45 LC and with stiff hand loads it is impressive on deer. He's going to Johnston county next weekend for pork and is taking it. I will try to revisit this and let you know how it performed.

I'm not much on rifles with handgun cartridges or handguns with rifle cartridges. If I were hog hunting, my handgun cartridges would be in a gun on my hip and my lever rifle would be a .30-30, .32Win, .35Rem, or a .45-70, probably my 18" Guide Gun. I have a 16" Win 94 Wrangler in .32Win. I replaced the hoop lever with a standard lever. It is short and quick and lots more gun in my opinion than a 16" Trapper in handgun calibers. Good luck.

Big boars probably take big medicine, but I have a .223 auto Ruger Ranch rifle in SS that I plan to take hog hunting some day.

I saw a domestic pig shot with a .44 Mag. This hog was shot because he was sick to the point of dying and the owner didn't want him infecting the whole herd of swine. The danged thing ran all over the place, all up amongst the other pigs and was shooting out blood like it was going out of style, squealin' to beat the band. All my buddy who shot him could do was stand there slack-jawed and watch as he thought the mighty .44 was like unto the hammer of Thor and should've smited the sickly porker where he stood. The farmer who owned the animal grabbed the .44 away whilst cussin' and ran up on the pig and shot him in the head, ending the melee. I guess I'm cold-blooded, but even though I had my own revolver holstered at my side, all I could do was lmao. The guy had shot him up behind the shoulder, like you would a deer, if you wanted the deer to run 50 yards into the woods and then lay down and die where you couldn't find it! Anyway, regardless of caliber, I'm a big believer in head shots on a hog and neck shots on deers.

Sorry. Y'all would've had to have been there.

"the 44-40 as it has more hiting power than a 308 at that distance".

Hummmm!! you sure about that? :-)

Wtf? I read back through my posts and don't see where I said that. Please edit your post accordingly as you are attributing something to somebody who didn't say it.

In fact, I may be mistaken, but a quick perusal of the other posts on this thread didn't turn up anybody having said that.

ColeYounger, he probably was not answering you. Most likely he used the Quick Reply, and it will address the post to whomever was the last person to post, I.E., you this time. I am assuming he was referring to the statement above.

Sorry guys! That was what I was told! As I used to have a 308 I really cant see a 44-40 coming even close. Please I am deeply sorry and take that back! Cant trust these Aussies!
Looks like the 30-30 is the way togo. I probaly go for the carbine version if they have one.
ColeYounger you gave me some VERY good advice and I thank you for putting so much time into this subject.
Thanks to everyone in this subject!

Bwaaa...don't nobody worry about it. I must've been wrapped too tight today. Neither a 30-30 nor a 44-40 will come close to the .308 WCF. Both are generally chambered in lighter, faster-handling carbines though, unless it's legal to have a .308 AR-10 type weapon over there. Those can get pretty pricey pretty quickly too. I think all three calibers would be excellent for hawgs. The .308 certainly will handle stuff at much longer distances but that point is probably moot with hog hunting.

Vic, I'm watching King of the Hill on the teevee right now. You sound like John Redcorn. You ever been to Arlen, Texas?

No, I sure haven't.

Texas is a big place, and I've driven through, on the way back to the east coast, but never stopped. I'll have to fix that one day.

I have experience with model 94s in both the 30 WCF and the 44 WCF. Both are admirably "field accurate". What this means is that while they might not shoot tiny groups at 200 yards, they hit what you aim at, and are capable of precise shot placement in the field.
I cannot recommend any factory 44 WCF load for your chosen prey, with the possible exception of the Winchester super X 200 JSP. Before I relied on this load, I would test for sure both its penetration and expansion. My own experience with this load is years down the road, and it is always important to know how current production ammo will work.
Most 44 WCF shooters are interested purely in hitting targets. Nothing wrong with that, just that I only know of two others besides me who rely on the old 44 in the back country, and one of them recently got shipped off to a retirement home by his kids. I guess what I'm saying is that the 44 WCF is not exactly a household name any more.
The main thing to remember, if you choose the old 44, is that you are relying on accuracy, not on power. The 44 WCF is a poor second to the 44 magnum.
That said, its no great shakes to make a water jug dance at 70+ yards with a either a SAA or a 94, off hand. The old 44 is inherently accurate.
I hesitate to offer a hog load, because I have no clue what hogs in Australia are like, but a standard 44 WCF working load= a 200+ grain cast semi-wadcutter, stoked over 8.0 grains of unique to start. I would want the bullet to be no more than 16 BHN. This should net a velocity of 1400-1500 fps from the 20' carbine barrel. It is possible to develop + P loads in the 44, but much anything over 1700 fps and you start to go through brass quite quickly. 44 WCF brass is thin, in order to work at modest pressures and expand and seal the chamber, which it does just fine. Unfortunately, no one to my knowledge offers heavy 44 WCF brass, not even Starline, which is probably the best 44 WCF brass available today.
Frankly, the 44 WCF is a cartridge that is best suited to those willing to pick their shots, rather than those who want to hurl the Hammer of Thor.
Unless I was willing to spend the time and resources developing a quality working load, I would choose the simple alternative of the 30 WCF.

Mark that was great. The only experience I have with a 44-40 is shooting roos at close range and afew crows. When I shot the roos the power of that 44 was just amazing,it had a exit hole the size of my fist. Yes accurarcy is not great but if I think I cant hit it then no shot will be taken.
If I can find the loads I will post them. Also the terrain that I shot the pigs in is very dense,I CANT afford to rush a shot and hit it,wound it, Cause I will never find it again.
Thanks again! Feel free to stay in touch. The responses I have recieved are far better than I ever thought, Thanks to you aand everyone who replied.

I have never seen a model 94 in 44 WCF.....not trying to be a smart azz...but Ive handled a LOT of guns, and just not that one.....

Educate me please....

Ingwe