24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Here is a test of premium bullets done in 2003 www.jegeren.net/tester_kuler.htm



I hope you understand the results even if it is in norwegian.Inntrengning means penetration.

Bullets were shot into wet telephone books, with two dry books in the front. A really hard test. Range 15m in "typical" 308win and 300win. mag speed.



The table " N�r ekspansjon stopper" means :When expansion stops. As you can see from the results a Scirocco expands much easier than a Speer Trophy Bonded.



I guess you have heard about most of these bullets except for Tonheim PBP which is a little ,but the only norwegian bullet manufacturer. A very accurat bullet.



I have a few comments to the results. Only one bullet fail, the Remington Core- Lokt Ultra. And i have seen other failures of this bullet in other norwegian tests. Perhaps not a real premium bullet with controlled expansion?



Lapua Naturalis is now a bit softer . Rhino Solid Shank; I think you can get this bullet in different versions. Also softer bullets.



Norma Oryx got a bit low result for retained weight, some years ago 90%+ was the usual result.Perhaps it is a bit softer now?

Sako Super Hammerhead has been improved over the last years and these results are now in the same class as Nosler Accubond.

Except for Core-Lokt Ultra ,no real surprises. And i have to say I'am impressed with the result of the cheapest one; Hornady Interbond.



Points are given for 308win speed.

+ and - comments are only based on the results you can find in the tables with a few exceptions. But if you want to read them i can translate.

The test was in the norwegian magazine Jeger,hund og v�pen nr 9/2003.

Last edited by Norwegian; 10/05/04.
BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,181
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,181
Litt splitavgang?
Meget bra?

The Hornady Interbond is pretty impressive as it compares a 165 grain Interbond and a 200 grain Nosler Accubond. I would still like to see a heads up comparison between the 180 grain Hornady Interbond and the 180 grain Nosler Accubond.


You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Litt splintavgang =little splintring

meget bra= very good



You are quit right about the Interbond. 36/38cm(308win/300winmag) penetration for a 165gr bullet compared to 41/40 cm for 200gr Accubond must be a very good result.

Interbonds diameter are 17/16mm compared to Accubonds 15/16mm.



And compared to the other "look a like bullet" Scirocco. Scirocco 180gr penetrated "only" 35 cm in both calibers,with a bullet diameter of 16mm in both calibers.



With one exception i think all these bullets in the test will do a good job on big game. Some want very deep penetration ,some want a big axpansion, it's your choice.



In the when expansion stops table there are bigger differences if you shoot at longe range.But remember speed can vary from rifle to rifle, especially if you have two identical caliber rifles with different barrel lengths.

Last edited by Norwegian; 10/05/04.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 31,969
L
las Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
L
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 31,969
I generally shoot premium bullets myself - particularily in good brown bear country.

However- I have some "howevers" about this.

Take, for example, the big bull caribou I shot in mid-August (Friday the 13th to be precise), 2004. I was shooting a Remington Coreloct 180 gr. through a 17-inch barrelled .30-06, at about 350 yards. ( I'd "called" the range to be 300) The bullet entered at the junction of a rib with the brisket bone, shattering the brisket, and exiting. I think the bullet seperated at that point, as one chamber of the heart, above, was sliced open, either from the lead or a piece of bone. The jacket- about half of it, nicely petalled, was found against the opposite leg femur bone.

I imagine a premium bullet might have shattered the femur as well, but, perhaps not. At any rate, that's pretty darned good performance from a "non-premium" bullet. Who needs more (assuming one place the bullet properly - and better than I did) - except perhaps on the really big and/or dangerous stuff? I'm not sure a premium bullet would have performed as well in this instance. So I got lucky maybe.

I will continue to use premium bullets, just for "insurance' when hunting in "thick" brown bear country (moose-hunting, primarily, or in heavy-animal-for-caliber situations), but in my opinion, the "standard" bullets are all one really needs for most hunting. But please yourself. Premium bullets are mighty cheap, compared with the cost of "custom' hunts. If a "standard" bullet is more accurate, within reason, in your rifle, that's the one I'd recommend.


The only true cost of having a dog is its death.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 227
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 227
I love this sort of testing. I especially like the "when expansion stops" table. This is really important data especially if shooting a little .308 and stepping the range up a bit. The Nosler Accubond gives excellent long range expansion as does the Barnes X. A failure to expand can be as bad as core loss imo. Some pretty cool looking European bullets. I have had good luck with 74grain Cone points from RWS in my fast twist 22's but they are hard to find in NAmerica.

I once did a huge test on 35 caliber bullets into wet and dry news print. Mixing the media stresses the bullet much more than pure wet news print which seemed to result in uniform deceleration and all bullets but the lightest built holding together.

I have used phone books too and they are much tougher than newsprint.... this Norwegian test would be very stressful on bullets.
A mixture of wet and dry books would tend to separate the men from the boys.

Thanks for posting this.

IC B2

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,707
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,707
Interesting tests.

If I'm reading the numbers right, it appears that at 15 meters the .308 actually did better than the .300 win mag on penetration with the 165 grain bullets??Expansion ended up being the same tho it occurred sooner with the .308?


I have always felt that definitive tests done by bullet mfgrs (or hunters)
would be very helpful to those who are wanting to choose the best bullet for their particular hunting tasks.

What would one expect IF he conducted the tests at 50, 100, 150, 200 and 250 yards?

That would be interesting as the expansion-penetration would change as velocity dropped..I think the Cor Locks do better expanding and staying together at LOWER, mid range velocities..At 15 meters, the construction of the Cor Locks was not suitable at that velocity and they started to fragment..

I shoot the Speer GS bullets in 165 grain for elk in the .300 Savage ..to 200 yards..MV is about 2600-2610 fps and I have never lost a bull. Shot placement and angle and distance restrictions always attended to ..

I have also killed elk with the 6,5x55 Swede at 2500 fps in 140 grain..I think that the higher the velocity the bullet is moving when it HITS the animal, the deeper penetration one will get before expansion begins..I have seen solids pencil right thru elk at close range where no bones other than ribs were encountered..Well placed and the elk died fast, but slightly less than perfect and much of the shocking power was lost as the solid punched thru.

Tougher or dangerous critters that need bone breaking-down and penetration would seem to do better with the tougher bullets..

In my opinion and experience bullet selection should be done based on consistent predictable accuracy...and beyond that, the SD of the bullet, the velocity AT ANTICIPATED IMPACT DISTANCE for the game you are hunting ,an assessment of the size and toughness of the hunted,dangerous game? (or not) would help the hunter choose the appropriate construction of the bullet for big game hunting..jim

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,719
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,719
remingtons corelokt ultra does not look much better than the old corelokt

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Only three of seven 165 gr bullets had better penetration in 300win.mag than 308win. Those three are nr Tonheim PBP, nr 3 Barnes XBT and nr 7 Hornady Interbond.

A 300win mag at about 200 yards will get approximately the same result as a 308win at 15 meters.

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,707
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,707
Norweigian, That's what the numbers seemed to indicate to me.
Did they test at intermediate yardages, 50-300 yards?jim

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Quote
Norweigian, That's what the numbers seemed to indicate to me.
Did they test at intermediate yardages, 50-300 yards?jim


No they shot only at 15 meters. To find when expansion stopped he loaded the cartridges down until the bullet had so low velocity that the expansion stopped. He then used a ballistic program to calculate what range that would indicate for each bullet.

IC B3

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,707
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,707
Norgeigian, That is an interesting approach..
I'm just an old farm boy and so I'd be the sort who'd prefer to actually test at the various distances..:)
The Tonheim PBP looks like it's nearly a solid..should have a high ballistic coefficient with that length.
I'd like to try some in my 6,5x55..:)jim

Attached Images
353317-M96andM38scoped.JPG (0 Bytes, 403 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 250
M
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 250
hello,

can somebody post a link not broken or a new infos .

truly yours

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 250
M
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 250
here s a link i found

sorry cant help more and hope to find the norwegian article ??!!!

see you

phil

http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Zielwirkung/Geschossbilder.htm

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,451
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,451
In the last post, the ballistic tip slipped it's core 3 out of 3 times.

Seems to be a common theme with them.


www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,682
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,682
According to the Nosler fellas at thier forum that seahook.com test was done with the older, more fragile Ballistic Tips.


The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution.

David Horowitz, Saul Alinsky and every woman I've ever argued with.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Quote
According to the Nosler fellas at thier forum that seahook.com test was done with the older, more fragile Ballistic Tips.



That test was posted in a 1998 handloader magazine.The 180gr -.308" ballistic tip underwent a change to a much thicker jacket about three years ago.Therefore the test results are meaningless for judging the performance of the current ballistic tip.


Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
434 members (300jimmy, 222Sako, 007FJ, 1lesfox, 1lessdog, 06hunter59, 37 invisible), 2,431 guests, and 1,007 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,731
Posts18,400,932
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.149s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8628 MB (Peak: 0.9947 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 12:08:31 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS