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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Bowman and his guides noted that many clients shot better,and wounded less game with 270's and 30/06's than they did with the 300 Weatherbys so popular at the time,due to excessive recoil.Bowman and his guides understood that BG animals at any distance are killed by putting good bullets in the right place;not by theoretical mumbo jumbo.Moderate recoil helps people do this.


Yep, and this is why I have always felt that the 7mm Remington Magnum and .375 H&H Magnum are two of the most practical and useful belted mags ever dreamt up. I've always felt that the 7mm Remington Magnum is about as close to the perfect all-around cartridge (for a North American hunter) that there is. There certainly are a few cartridges that shoot flatter, but they tend to be either far more specialized or lots harder on the shoulder.


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Agree with all who say it is hard to beat. I started hunting with a 7 mag in the late 60s. It was considered 'way to big' by most folks around here. I gradually upgraded rifles but the caliber stayed the same. Used to hand load for the 7 Rem and it was awesome to say the least. It became a round used for 1000 yard competition which tells you about it's accuracy. The 300 Win is a good cartridge but doesn't perform as well as the 7 Rem at longer ranges. Close up the 300 has more power but then starts dropping more and losing energy as well. Back in the 'old days' it was hard to find ammo for it. Now you can't hardly go into a store without there being plenty 7 Rem mag ammo on the shelves. It's survived the test of time and will be here for a very long time.

Have to add though that the 270 Wby mag sure has come on strong as a long range rifle. Shoots very flat and hits hard. It too is a heck of a cartridge and doesn't have the kick of the 300 Wby.


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Should do just fine. One might get more informed answers though if we knew what it was intended for. Paper, squirrels, deer, elk?

Edited: Ability to rectify parallax issues would be an extreme plus.

Last edited by 1minute; 01/03/10.

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Ron/WildBill:
There's no denying the effectivesness of rounds like the 300 mags and the 338's etc.But the subject of recoil is a legitimate one,and such cartridges come with a bit if baggage for some riflemen;some handle them easily and with impunity,and for others they are excessive in terms of their rifle weight and/or recoil.

There is no magic in the 7RM,and today there are other cartridges that perform in a similar manner,as another poster points out,the 270 Weatherby being one,along with Weatherby's 7mm,the 7WSM,the Rem SAUM,280AI,etc.But this takes nothing away from the 7RM,and it still does a great job across a wide spectrum of game,at recoil levels tolerable for most of us.

Last edited by BobinNH; 01/03/10.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob covered it pretty well. The only thing I'd add is that for a 500 yd rifle scope I'd go with a 3-9 Burris with a BP in it and or the Leo 3-9 with dotz.

Then I'd take the money I saved on the scope and buy a bunch of components and shoot the heck out of the rig from field positions. Bench rests need not apply...grin

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Absolutely spot-on Dober!

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Hard to beat the old 7-mag.


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A 3-9 power(9X) seems a little low to me to be shooting at 500 yds. You're gonna need a rock solid rest anyways so you may as well be able to see what you're shooting at and be able to shoot at a spot on the target or animal rather than just shooting at it. I have a 4.5-14 on my 7 Mag and to me 14x is ok but I wouldn't feel over powered on magnification with a 6-18 either.

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I guess that coyote I shot at 942 yards the other day with my 3-9x40 Burris never got the memo that 3-9x was inadequate beyond 500 yards wink

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Winging bullets at Coyotes is a lot different than being able to make a clean shot on a big game animal. If 9x works for you at 1000yds, then that's great. I would still recommend more scope....just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth...

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Opinions are what makes the world go round, but just to clarify, nobody is "winging" anything. If a person can hit the vitals of a coyote at any given distance with a cold-bore shot, then they can surely hit the vitals of a big-game animal at the same distance. I also thought that I would point out that 500 yards is a heck of a lot closer (and MUCH easier) than 1000, so if I can see the target past 900 yards with 9x, then pretty much anybody should be able to do it at 500.

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Originally Posted by desertcj
A 3-9 power(9X) seems a little low to me to be shooting at 500 yds. You're gonna need a rock solid rest anyways so you may as well be able to see what you're shooting at and be able to shoot at a spot on the target or animal rather than just shooting at it. I have a 4.5-14 on my 7 Mag and to me 14x is ok but I wouldn't feel over powered on magnification with a 6-18 either.


This is interesting to me.....I have no quarrel with someone using exactly what they want for scope power because we all get used to different things....

But the reticle of a garden variety 4X scope subtends an inch at 100 yards;even at 500 yards,if we get the steady rest(required)the reticle is subtending 5" at 500 yards,an area about the size of your fist.Since many are hard pressed to hold a MOA group under field conditions,and since the vital area of a good sized deer is about a foot square,we have,even with such absurdly low power as a 4X,enough precision to do the job nicely even at 500 yards,if we know what we are doing.

Not suggesting that more power may not be helpful at times,but the notion that you are holding with great precision at 500 yards with a 14X,but sorta only shooting "at them" at 9X stikes me as a bit simplistic.I would respectfully suggest that if you miss at 500 yards with a 9X,best take a hard look in the mirror for the reason..... smile





The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Everyone's eyes are different. Some folks just see better than others. A 4x is enough for those with good vision at 500yd for any big game animal...a 3-9 adds more capability for those that don't.

With that in mind, although the 6500 is a fine scope it is heavy, pricey and a lot more mag than necessary for 500yds. A nice scope for a dual purpose rifle that might challenge smaller targets, but a 7mm doesn't fit that exactly, and it's a bit much for a sporter rifle IMO, but if you want optics capable to twice that range then it is a viable option.

Same could be said of the 7mag...it's more than necessary. At 500yd, a 708 would do about the same work with the same bullet. It really just depends on the type of rifle you like to hunt with. If you like a heavier rifle with more recoil then go big 7, but the bullet is the more important choice these days.

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I've never shot any BG at 500 yards. But if I were so inclined, I think a 7 mag with a good 3x9x40 pushing a 160gr bullet would be a good start.
I do know it will make holes in paper that are very close together at 600 yards. And that's from field positions. The only difference is my 7 mag has a 2x7 on it. smile


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Idahostalker: I have used a couple of the Bushnell 6500 series variable scopes at the range - they are awesome!
I have NO idea whether or not they will hold up to heavy recoil and/or inclement weather and sub-zero temperatures (i.e. Hunting).
For the money they should!
I have a Remington 700 Classic in 7mm Remington Magnum with a Leupold 3.5x10 A/O variable scope on it.
I have taken all manner of Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, Black Bear and Whitetailed Deer with this rig.
I killed a 6x6 Bull Elk at 325 yards using just one shot to do so a couple years back.
I think the furthest animal I have harvested to date with this Rifle is just at 400 yards.
I use the wonderful Nosler 160 grain Partitions in this Rifle, exclusively!
With as much scope power as you are contemplating I am sure you can harvest standing Game with that rig at 500 yards - easily.
Get a good rangefinder (I use the Leica 900 myself) and use it as well.
Best of luck to ya.
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I think you guys might just give BobinNH a listen with his posts regarding the 7mm RM. It seems he is pretty squared away on the cartridge. Good insight Bob. Tom

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Thanks,Tom.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by desertcj
A 3-9 power(9X) seems a little low to me to be shooting at 500 yds. You're gonna need a rock solid rest anyways so you may as well be able to see what you're shooting at and be able to shoot at a spot on the target or animal rather than just shooting at it. I have a 4.5-14 on my 7 Mag and to me 14x is ok but I wouldn't feel over powered on magnification with a 6-18 either.


From 500 yards on in, on a hunting rifle, a 3x9 seems about perfect, to me! Or a 2.5x8.





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It is amazing what the old dogs have learned over the years through field experience.
You are looking at purchasing the excellent T3, a lightweight, accurate rifle. Then you want to hamstring it with a big, heavy scope. The 6500's are great scopes, but for this rifle a 3x9 or 2 1/2-8 Leupold would balance the rifle much better and make a great hunting rig that you could shoot accurately as far as you need to. Listen to the likes of Dober, Ingwe, BobinNH, ect. They have been there, done that.

For what it is worth, I made the longest shot I have ever attempted this past fall using a puny 1 3/4-6 Leupold and didn't feel, or think, I was underscoped to try the shot.

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Originally Posted by desertcj
A 3-9 power(9X) seems a little low to me to be shooting at 500 yds. You're gonna need a rock solid rest anyways so you may as well be able to see what you're shooting at and be able to shoot at a spot on the target or animal rather than just shooting at it. I have a 4.5-14 on my 7 Mag and to me 14x is ok but I wouldn't feel over powered on magnification with a 6-18 either.


Everyone is different, but I find 3-9x perfectly adequate for big game at 500 or 600 yards. I will admit that when shooting clay pigeons at 600 yards or even for groups at 100, I prefer a 4.5-14x cranked up all the way. Big game is very different, however. With big game you have a much more visible target and it is easy to position the crosshairs in relation to the rest of the animal, even if the specific aim point is covered by the reticle.


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