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Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3711271 01/23/10
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Jburner;

You seem to know something about some things, BUT you are quite wrong about black cougars. I was within 4 ft of the one I saw, I HAD A VERY GOOD LOOK AT IT! My son also! Now, if you want to believe SPECULATION that you've read in the papers, go right ahead! BUT don't try to con me with that garbage when I WAS THERE! And, yes, they WERE in Florida and migrated into the Appalachians, according to Encyclopedia Britannica. AND there must be a lot of "roadside zoos", because sightings of cougar in N.B. go back into the '60's, at least!

A friend in N.B. who was a professional guide, at the time of my sighting, in answer to my inquiry, said "Yes, the locals call them "devil cats". He further added that he had tracked them in the snow. That's central N.B. that has as much snow as any part of Canada - and I know that because I've lived there and was born there.

I know a wildlife biologist who taught at Flemming- now retired (taught my friend the CO). In a one-on-one with me, as I was bear hunting on his property 3 years ago, insisted I was wrong about cougar in Ont, "There are none, they couldn't survive our winters!" When I told him about cougars in N.B., that have finally (since the '80's)been acknowledged by the MNR there, and pointed out that that part of N.B. where I saw one, as well as others reporting them, has the same latitude as central Ont, with winters equally as bad (or worse)he dismissed it as unlikely (as you have)because science was against it.

That must have been some of the "junk science" you mentioned. grin "House cats" - please, gimme a break!!!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Last edited by CZ550; 01/23/10.

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant"

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Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3711483 01/23/10
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Cougars have been suspected in Yukon for a number of years. One was finally found dead, apparently starved in Watson Lake a few years ago. They no doubt walked up the Alaska Highway following the deer that move north the same way. Mostly Mule Deer, though my wife and I saw a Whitetail 100 miles west of Watson Lake a few years ago. Nothing like a dead animal to get rid of speculation.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: tangozulu] #3711697 01/23/10
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I used to buy cougars and wolves and other things mostly in Wisconsin but reallyall over. There are plenty of roadside zoos all over North America including Ontario. There are supposed to be 10,000 tigers in the USA, mostly in roadside zoos, and there are only about 1,400 wild ones in India.

The only black cougars I have ever seen have been purposely dyed black to create black panthers for the movies. I do not believe there are any black ones in the wild but I have been wrong before. People commonly report seeing them but they are never shot anywhere within the cougar range.

I once caught a spotted cougar or "onca" in South America by treeing it with dogs and darting it with SCC. They are really just adult cougars with spots. In hot climates they do not grow and shed their hair with the change of the seasons so they keep their hair and spots well into young adult hood and that is really what the so-called spotted onca of tropical Mexico really is.

Cougars in the far north need either deer or snowshoe hares to survive the winter and the hares are cyclical so they are sometimes unavailable. The deer yard up where the snow is deep and if there are any cougars around they will be near the deer yards in winter.

At one time there was supposed to be a pair near Powasson which is near the Golden Valley deer yard. But there was a guy who had somepet cougars in the area and I suspect he released the ones he could not afford to feed. Its happens all the time. That is how Florida got so full of Asian pythons - pet owners released them.





Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3711898 01/23/10
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The likelihood of a "roadside zoo" in such a remote near-wilderness area of New Brunswick is about on the same scale as a squirrel monkey swimming the Atlantic and settling in Newfoundland! laugh

And Ontario...? Nah... think I'll stick with what I know, not the Wikipedia version.

BTW, you wouldn't, perchance, be related to Lee24, would ya? whistle

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Last edited by CZ550; 01/23/10.

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant"

-- Harlan Ellison
Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: CZ550] #3714007 01/24/10
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Dear Bob,

I don't know who Lee 24 is. I don't think I have any relatives posting on the net.

As regards cougars. They walk very far looking for food and for mates. They have four legs.

A cougar from the Black Hills walked more than 500 miles into Manitoba. I don't think New Brunswick is 500 miles wide.

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Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3715001 01/24/10
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I would not be surprised if woods bison were being raised somewhere in AK... But I am fairly familiar with the plains variety and my wife shot one some years back from the Delta Junction herd.

I think wolves would have to be pretty hungry to think about taking on a bison herd, of any flavor.

There is another herd on Kodiak Island, domestic, and the bears do not mess with them much. Several islands around have "wild" (feral) cattle and they are mostly from wooly, short-legged stock that looks mostly Channel Islands in origin. But the Belted Galway is the true winner breed in the bear wars... They are big and aggressive and the bears mind their manners around them. The bison ranch, Bertram's, also has cattle and quite a few of the BGs.

I thought I remembered seeing a trail cam picture of a black cougar from the Mexican-AZ border recently, or am I confusing that with a jaguar?
art


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Sitka deer] #3715089 01/24/10
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Dear Sitka Deer,

There is definitely a herd of wood buffalo in Alaska but I think they are being held in quarantine because of some legal hitch.

The ADF&G has a Wood buffalo Restoration Advisory Group in place. SCI is supporting this.

They are the largest land mammal in the northern hemisphere as far as I know.

I remember seeing photos of a jaguar from the American south-west but it had been cornered by dogs.

I have not see the trail cam of a black cougar but maybe someone got a picture.

The thing that makes me think it unlikely is that so many thousands have been shot in the last 400 years by hunters using dogs that you would think one would turn up someplace and I don't one ever has.



Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Sitka deer] #3715974 01/24/10
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Art,
The Wood Bison Herd is almost in spitting distance of your house. They're held at the game park or what ever they call it at the turn off to Girdwood. WE took some company through there and I was surprised to see them. A couple got out and we (CAP)did some aerial searching for them. I believe they rounded them up but not positive of that. Take a Sunday drive and take a look pretty awesome. --- Mel


The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3725736 01/26/10
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A couple of years ago while turkey hunting I came across 5" cat tracks. It turns out I was about ten miles from the guy's farm who's cat just had him for lunch!! The Co I talked to about this was certian the guy let his big cats out for excerise! So it looks good on him flippen sob!!grin

However like N.B. there is plenty of food here in S.W Ontario to support cougers I not convinced all sitings are escaped excotics and boviease. A fella here raises walkers for bear hunting and he's had his dogs one them. I've have seen the plaster casts he's taken. One set has big paws followed by little paws. He is certian it's mom and kit. I also know a farmer I've worked for known most my life tell me he wachted a couger stalking turkeys in his back 40. He is a very knowledgable and well educated man, his testamony of what he saw I believe. Black bear in Oshuawa and young bull moose in Sarnia, animals are always on the move so why not cougers around here?

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: cloverleaf] #3725972 01/27/10
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Dear Cloverleaf,

I think there could be a few cougars in south-western Ontario now but I do not think they come from wild stock.

They are most likely the offspring of capitve cats that per owners have released and made a living in the winter killing farms dog, farm cats, wild turkeys and the odd deer.

I have heard there are a few in the pinery north of Sarnia and apparently there are quite a few deer there but I don't know if its true.

The ones that show up in NW Ontario are probably wild stock from the west. Lots of deer in the forested valleys of the big prairie rivers leading to the Rockies where ther are cougars. That is all they need.

I think the country is too steril and the snow to deep along the north shore of Lake Superior for them to have come into southern Ontario from the west. No deer for a 1,000 miles, only enough snowshoe hares one year in ten, and snow so deep east of Lake Superior that if you step off your cross country skis you disappear. Tough going for a cougar.





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Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3726079 01/27/10
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if that wolf is as big as it shows, i don't believe it is as big as stated and have a little person pick it up as shown. also if it is just killed, where is the blood and why is it STIFF. rigger has set in and not a real pic.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: cdhunt] #3726179 01/27/10
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I found more photos of it at a website that sells game bait. Its at http://grimsmonstermix.com/galleryhtm.

It was shot near Drayton valley, Alberta and one of the two guys holding it in the various pictures is Jeff Grimolfson the outfitter whose company got it on a bait.

They are called "White Claw Outfitters."

A story was written about it in a fall issue (not sure the year) of "Big Buck Magazine".

The weights on the net vary from 197 pounds to 230 pounds. Don't know which is true or if either is true.

It apparently has not been photo shopped. A number of people who know the outfitter and the wolf have chimed into says its for real.

I don't discount the size because for years it has been known that the wolves within the original range of the wood bison are very large and are the only wolves that kill adult wood bison, the largest land mamals in the northern hemisphere.

Apparently it has or will be shown on a TV show called "Hunting Chronicles TV."

Look at the length of the hind legs and imagine how tall that thing must have stood. That would be a worrisome thing for a trapper to find following him home on a cold winters night.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3726630 01/27/10
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The wolf is apparently for real and weighed 197 pounds. The refernce to 230 pounds is what it would have weighed if it had a stomach full of moose. It had an empty stomach. The skull scored 18+ inches or about what a 200 pound leopard of jaguar would score.

There are more details on the huntingbc forum and comments by a guy who saw the wolf and who also saw it weighed. There is also a guy on the site who mentions 200 pound wolves from the Yukon.

This all fits in with information that I have accumulated over the years that tends to show the largest wolves on earth live within the range of the wood buffalo. They are in the Mackenzie Valley NWT, northern Alberta, northern Saskatchewan and the southern Yukon.

They are the only wolves that seem to kill adult bison and size probably has something to do with it.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3728795 01/27/10
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Photo shop doe's wonder's.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: swampdogger] #3730064 01/28/10
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I can understand your skepticism swamp dogger because wolves in Ontario are very small from having crossed with dogs and coyotes.

The coyotes cross with dogs in southern Ontario and the wolves cross with dogs from Indian reserves in the north. In the old days the indians dug up wolf pups from their dens and crossed them with their dogs too.

Difficult to find a pure wolf in Ontario any where near where people live.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3730084 01/28/10
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Here is the best thread on the wolf that I have been able to find. Its http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=37304

The thread includes people who know the outfitter and exact measurements such as a skull size of 18 5/8 inches.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3730364 01/28/10
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Here is an Alberta forum reference to the wolf at http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=34797&highlights=wolf.

One of the posters here also makes reference to another wolf killed 10 years ago near Buffalo Jump in Alberta and weighed in at 205 pounds.

I know I have seen references to 200 pound wolves from the southen Yukon but in pre-internet days and I cannot remeber where.

I sent an e-mail to the Yukon Fish and Game people asking them about this but they did not reply.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: Jburner] #3730632 01/28/10
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Skull size is all that matters.Wolves eat too much at one sitting for weight to be used as a comparison. I believe the BC book is listing wolves these days.

Re: Huge Wolf Shot [Re: tangozulu] #3733727 01/29/10
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Dear Tago Zulu,

What you say is true as far as records books go but I still find the weights interesting. There were for years rumours of very large black bears in Ontario but the bigs ones were always cut up or skinned in the bush because they were too heavy to move and weigh.

Then a transport truck killed a big one crossing a highway near Kapuskasing and because it was on a road MNR got it to a weigh scale and accurately weighed it at 780 pounds. Another killed in Manitoba was accurate weighed at more than 850 pounds.

That black bear is larger than any grizzly bear killed in the continental United States since they began weighhing them. One or two even heavier black bears have been killed in recent years in the eastern USA. pennsylvania sems to have most of the big ones.

Llyn Rogers talks about a female black bear weighing more than 500 pounds but its almost certainly one raised in a roadside zoo or artificialy fed.




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