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#3871952 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: BuckeyeSpecial]  
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It's for the same reason you don't see any 160 gr. BTSP's in .270. Nosler does make a very nice 160 gr. Partition, but notice the shape? And guess what that bullet's market share is.....

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#3871965 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: ingwe]  
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I honestly don't know why I even bothered typing that. It was an utter waste of time, as are these few words.

Do mind your remarks about OUR service men, smarA$$ or otherwise.


Last edited by x2mosg; 03/07/10.
#3871974 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: UncleJake]  
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Since I am no engineer, here is a link for twist rate. http://www.realguns.com/calculators/riflingtwist.html

A 130 .257 is going to have to be 1.5 or so inches and I am doubting you can get much more than 2850. That puts the twist requirement at 1 in 7.9. Which is really close to my 260 with a 1 in 8 twist running 140s.

Play with a 100 or 110 with that calculator and you start seeing the twist rates that are offered by manufacturers.

#3871975 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]  
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ingwe Offline
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine


A 130gr roundnose out of a 1/10 twist 25-06 might work, but what's the point?


Exactamundo!..You don't need a degree in Rocket Surgery to know the BC on that one would turn it into a rainbow trajectory sooner than you had wished...


Ingwe


He spoke in tears of 15 years his dog and him traveled about. The dog up and died. She up and died....After 20 years he still grieves.
#3871983 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: x2mosg]  
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FWIW I shot a few 125gr. Extended Range Remingtons IIRC at some hogs...
Don't recall the BC, but if they coulda made 'em 130 they woulda for THEIR 1-10 twisted rifles......

David, excellent post!


" 'Hey look at me!' Who gives a schit about YOU. There's ten other guys out there".
Dick Butkus

#3871993 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: x2mosg]  
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The guys at Sierra who helped me out were not what I'd call pencil pushers. They seemed to me like shooting/hunting enthusiasts (I dare say loony's).

When I called about stability of the 190s in a 1/12 308 Win, the guy got back to me in a couple days. He made up a deliberately slow load, about 2000 fps, and checked it in their underground facility in one of those machine-looking contraptions. Load shot 1/2" at 200 yards. I got the feeling those guys truly enjoyed that sort of stuff.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=ballistictech


#3871994 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: HawkI]  
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I only wish to add that Shane has kept remarkably cool through the course of this thread. Well done!


Wade

"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
#3871999 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Waders]  
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ingwe Offline
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Shane is a cool cool dude!

Ingwe


He spoke in tears of 15 years his dog and him traveled about. The dog up and died. She up and died....After 20 years he still grieves.
#3872002 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: ingwe]  
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It takes a fair amount to get me worked up.

#3872007 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]  
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ingwe Offline
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Good on ya'

As you can see, it just takes someone flipping schitt to one of the good guys to get me worked up...


Ingwe


He spoke in tears of 15 years his dog and him traveled about. The dog up and died. She up and died....After 20 years he still grieves.
#3872018 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]  
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
The guys at Sierra who helped me out were not what I'd call pencil pushers. They seemed to me like shooting/hunting enthusiasts (I dare say loony's).

When I called about stability of the 190s in a 1/12 308 Win, the guy got back to me in a couple days. He made up a deliberately slow load, about 2000 fps, and checked it in their underground facility in one of those machine-looking contraptions. Load shot 1/2" at 200 yards. I got the feeling those guys truly enjoyed that sort of stuff.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=ballistictech



I think in their last manual they posted an on target velocity schematic of such a load for B.C. testing at 200yds, with twist a consideration...

Last edited by HawkI; 03/07/10. Reason: twist

" 'Hey look at me!' Who gives a schit about YOU. There's ten other guys out there".
Dick Butkus

#3872025 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: ingwe]  
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Yeah, Shane stayed cooler than I for sure. Don't knock on the boys in uniform, or even make comments that might be taken that way. That I can't tolerate. We here in Bama might be hicks, but we stand with our soldiers. Dont think I've ever engaged in conversation with Shane on this board, but he has my respect for his service, if for no other reason.

Shane,

That comment was made in a state of light "rage", you might say. The boys at Sierra have to be shooters to turn out the great products that they do. I feel the same about pretty much all bullet mfgs. I deal with engineers, structural, every day. Some are genuine pencil pushers, others have been there, done that. There is a huge difference in the two. Thanks.

David

#3872037 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: efw]  
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Sierra also has a very good twist-calculation calculator (much more sophisticated than Greenhill) in their ballistics program.

I just ran a .25 130 Ballistic Tip (theoretical bullet, based on the length of a 115 BT multipled by the 130/115 weight factor) through the Sierra calculator, at a muzzle velocity of 3000, which might be a little generous. The answer was a 1-8" twist. This agrees entirely with what Shane said, which is not surprising.

Our new "friend" Buckeyespecial could also have obtained Sierra's ballistic program and used it to search for the result himself, but instead chose to ask his question on an open forum and then sarcastically question the answers he got, without having a clue about the backgrounds of anybody who was answering. I am also gratified that everybody else pretty much kept their cool in the face of such blunt rudeness.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#3872059 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: BuckeyeSpecial]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeSpecial
Mr. Montana Marine et al:

Read the original post, a 130 grain bullet in 25 caliber; I will now qualify it as a 130 grain "hunting" bullet and not a VLD.

Not trying to be a smart guy, just trying to gain an answer with my preferred level of credibility.... looks like you guys don't 'really" know.

Despite your illustrious artillery experience, I see no formula, nor a reference to a ballistics engineering degree (perhaps you have one) So, I guess I will call Sierra someday....


Unfortunately I don't share Shane's coolness, so you can shove a 130 bullet right up your ass [bleep].


"When I was a kid I thought that quicksand was going to be a much bigger problem than it is."
#3872075 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]  
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Way to go Steely! Now I wish I had left my first post up. I ain't about to retype it. I ain't that mad anymore. Shane's cool, so I'm cool.


#3872081 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: x2mosg]  
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They seem to be working overtime at the tool factory of late, fortunately the ability to make a sharp one has eluded them thus far.


"When I was a kid I thought that quicksand was going to be a much bigger problem than it is."
#3872095 - 03/07/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]  
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Most of us post up to seek or share info/comraderie. Some post only really looking for a good ol' pissin' match.

I've 'gone there' a time or two, but it's not really my thing. Entertaining to read sometimes.

#3872956 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]  
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Not that I feel compelled to answer [bleep]'s post, but here is a picture of some 25 caliber bullets.

[Linked Image]

The picture shows bullets that I have loaded for in .25-06. The two bullets to the far right were made by Wildcat Bullets. The second from right is 125g ULD and far right, 130g bonded bullet. As you can see with the bonded bullets, they are quite long.

In my 1:10 twisted barrel, they didnt shoot well. Not sure if a coincidence or a twist issue. No keyholing though.

So to answer your question, Wildcat Bullets did make a 130g bullet. With new ownership, not sure if they still are.

#3873157 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]  
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by BuckeyeSpecial
Mr. Montana Marine et al:

Read the original post, a 130 grain bullet in 25 caliber; I will now qualify it as a 130 grain "hunting" bullet and not a VLD.

Not trying to be a smart guy, just trying to gain an answer with my preferred level of credibility.... looks like you guys don't 'really" know.

Despite your illustrious artillery experience, I see no formula, nor a reference to a ballistics engineering degree (perhaps you have one) So, I guess I will call Sierra someday....


Unfortunately I don't share Shane's coolness, so you can shove a 130 bullet right up your ass [bleep].


grin

and as we like to say in WI....WTF's a Buckeye.


'Tis better to travel than to arrive
#3873254 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: tzone]  
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The one thing that hasn't been mentioned so far regarding twist, and why slower twists work better in larger calibers is because twist affects the surface speed. If you spin a .35 caliber bullet in a 1:10 at the same velocity as a .25 caliber through a 1:10, the outside diameter of the .35 will be spinning much faster than the .25 The center of the bullet will be spinning at the same rpm, but not the outside of the bullet.
So that's why it takes such a fast twist in .22 calibers to stabilize bullets with a lower sectional density, length, or BC than a .25 cal of the same weight.
Make sense?
And, no I'm not a ballistic engineer. If I was, then the term for "outside diameter speed" would have come to me, but it didn't.


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

#3873267 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: BuckeyeSpecial]  
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If you need a 130 gr for a 25-06 just buy a 270

#3873289 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: exbiologist]  
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Quote
The center of the bullet will be spinning at the same rpm, but not the outside of the bullet.


You are mixing angular and linear quantities here.

#3873317 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: mathman]  
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I know, help me out with the terminology. But the idea is correct right? Larger diameter bullets need less twist than little bullets, which is why a .22 needs a 1:7 for long match bullets and .26 needs a 1:8 for even longer match bullets, and a .338 does fine with a 1:10 with 300 grain match bullets.
Right?


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

#3873483 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]  
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by BuckeyeSpecial
Mr. Montana Marine et al:

Read the original post, a 130 grain bullet in 25 caliber; I will now qualify it as a 130 grain "hunting" bullet and not a VLD.

Not trying to be a smart guy, just trying to gain an answer with my preferred level of credibility.... looks like you guys don't 'really" know.

Despite your illustrious artillery experience, I see no formula, nor a reference to a ballistics engineering degree (perhaps you have one) So, I guess I will call Sierra someday....


Unfortunately I don't share Shane's coolness, so you can shove a 130 bullet right up your ass [bleep].


Sums it up quite well. Guy deserves a in person, back of the neck held, face in the dirt.....held long.


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