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Would be inclined toward the 1895 CB instead 'cause I don't care for the short barrel....and I've seen the CB run with 510 grain paper patch at ~1800 fps. Recoil was firm but not abusive. Sub MOA with optical sights and close enough with a receiver sight the difference is lost in statistical clutter. Fine gun, fine cartridge. Go Long.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Thanks Log Cutter. I did not know that. It certainly improves the trajectory over what info I had.

Best,

JM

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My hunting rifles are the .270 Win/30-06 and .300 Win Mag as well as the 45-70..Hunting has changed around here and I find myself not hunting clear cuts anf open areas but hunting the deep thick timber where shots rarely exceed the capability of the 45-70, properly loaded.

My son and I fought over who got to use the lighter Guide Gun in the thick stuff while the other the heavier .300 Win Mag or the new to me 30-06.The Guide Gun is a joy to pack in the really thick stuff and the light weight helps after several hours of packing...

The 45-70 actually cost me an Elk this year with my only shot at alittle over 100 yards had a Cow behind the bull and I new it would penetrate the Bull and possibly hit the cow so it lived another year but had I had the '06 with the soft 165 grain Interbond,he would have got a shoulder full with little worry of complete penetration, but thats hunting.

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I have seen such poor performence with a hot loaded 45-70 with hard cast and Nosler, Hornadys that I am pretty sour on it..I have a number of filmed kills with it and it would make you sick to watch..I even lost a Guide Company because the guide/owner insisted on a one shot kill and we followed a lung shot bull for a half mile waiting on him to die and he wouldn't let the hunter finish him off..I got mad and shot the bull and walked to my truck and went home..I have that one on film.

I used the 45-90 a bit on elk some years ago and it was better when loaded properly, but again I am not impressed with any of those big slow bullets...If I were to use the 45-70 today it would be in a Ruger no. 1 and I would load it to 2000 plus FPS in that strong action, but why, when I can get the same gun in a .458 Win.

Just my opinnion based on my experience with the caliber, but I believe many 45-70 owners have not used the caliber much and just want to believe its effective out of nostalgia, others have apparantly had better luck than I...but thats why we have so many caliber choices, because we all have a right to an opinnion.

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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
I'm sure a 45-70 will kill at suprising ranges. If you are going to be taking shots past 200-250 yds. there are better choices IMHO.

One of the best Factory offerings in this caliber has a drop of -28" @ 300yds. and that is sighting the rifle in 3" high at 100 yds.

Anything further than that, you'll have an arc like a mortar round, making hits to the vitals alot more difficult to pull off.

It's a great rifle and caliber, but it ain't no long range rig.

That's just a fact.

JM




How is that a fact? The 45-70 has been and still used in competition out to 1000 yards and beyound. The old Buffalo hunters would sneek up on a herd at a good vantage point and start shooting as the herd moved away they routinely contunued to knock down Bison to well past 600 yards.

Not a long range cartridge? Maybe not your choice, but it has been and still is used at long range to great effect


In fact I saw a video of a guy that used a vintage Remington Rolling Block with black power loads to hit a target 5 times in row with the open sites at 1140 yards. Impressed me!!

Last edited by jwp475; 03/15/10.


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I'll tell you how.

1. It starts rolling of the table past moderate ranges.

2. Hunters aren't 1000 yd Competition shooters. Do you sight your rifle in 60+ inches high @ 100 yds. to hunt with?

3. That's about all the old timers had to use, so yeah, they shot it.

4. Do you wonder how many wounded Bison ran off gut shot from 600 yds. in the old days?

5. How many guns in this caliber are purchased each year as long range hunting rigs?

A little common sense should be used here. A [bleep] .22 can go a mile. Just because you can dial in enough elevation to get a bullet over the moon doesn't mean you should be trying to drop it on critters on it's way back to earth.

So save your breath telling me it's a good long range cartridge.

It ain't.

JM

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John, one of our Campfire denizens is fully capable of such shooting with the 45 caliber guns bith BPCR and smokeless moderns. He regularly takes large game at pretty impressive ranges with them. He is likely the best game shot with them around. Practice,practice. He uses iron sights to boot. Sharpsguy. The killing power of 45 caliber rifles at range is very impressive. BTW, the buff hunters would intentionally gutshoot the lead cow. She wouldn't run which meant the pod wouldn't run. Second shot was to kill then on down the line. That was their technique.


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As I stated before, I'm sure it is capable in the right hands.

Just because someone who is dedicated and practiced is able to make long shots, does not a good long range caliber make..
He is able to overcome the deficiencies of the cartridge thru skill and practice. Also, He's using a target rifle, not a Marlin Lever gun sighted in at 100 or 200 yds.

As along range hunting caliber, there are much better choices.

Shooting at extreme ranges with a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 is a risky proposition at best and beyond the capabilities of most of us who hunt.

As far as gut shooting Bison, you may be right. Gut shoot a Whitetail or Elk and he's gonna run and those are the animals people are discussing here.

JM.

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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
I'll tell you how.

1. It starts rolling of the table past moderate ranges.

2. Hunters aren't 1000 yd Competition shooters. Do you sight your rifle in 60+ inches high @ 100 yds. to hunt with?
3. That's about all the old timers had to use, so yeah, they shot it.

4. Do you wonder how many wounded Bison ran off gut shot from 600 yds. in the old days?

5. How many guns in this caliber are purchased each year as long range hunting rigs?

A little common sense should be used here. A [bleep] .22 can go a mile. Just because you can dial in enough elevation to get a bullet over the moon doesn't mean you should be trying to hit critters with it on it's trip back to earth.

2-So save your breath telling me it's a good long range cartridge.

It ain't.


JM



A long range hunter would never site his rifle in 60" high at one hundred yards, he would use adjustable sights for the yardage

As the post above mentioned Sharpsguy has taken game I believe out past 600 yards with his Sharps in 45-70


As far asw the 45-70 not being a good long range caliber that is your opinion and is not a fact

Not sure why you would think that some one whoms lively hood depended on putting game on the grounds would be gut shooting them to run off.

Last edited by jwp475; 03/15/10.


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The 45-70 is a hoot all right!
It is fun to shoot at cement blocks and stuff like that.
The light rifles with heavy loads are punishing.
I would like a Ruger #1 with a heavy octagon barrel about 28" long if I ever bought another one.
This is one cartridge that I might consider using a range finder for! grin
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JWP,

In a Marlin lever guide gun it is a fact.

You are wrong....again.

But keep trying.....

I guess you would have our sniper's using the Marlin guide gun in 45-70.

Dream on..

JM

p.s. Since notmany are shooting bison these days, the thread is concerning game animals such as elk and deer.

They do run when gut shot. Just an FYI,...

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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
As I stated before, I'm sure it is capable in the right hands.

Just because someone who is dedicated and practiced is able to make long shots, does not a good long range caliber make..He is able to overcome the deficiencies of the cartridge thru skill and practice. Also, He's using a target rifle, not a Marlin Lever gun sighted in at 100 or 200 yds.

As along range hunting caliber, there are much better choices.

Shooting at extreme ranges with a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 is a risky proposition at best and beyond the capabilities of most of us who hunt.

As far as gut shooting Bison, you may be right. Gut shoot a Whitetail or Elk and he's gonna run and those are the animals people are discussing here.

JM.


If the 45-70 was not up to the task, then dedication and practice would not make it happen



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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
JWP,

In a Marlin lever guide gun it is a fact.

You are wrong....again.

But keep trying.....

I guess you would have our sniper's using the mMrlin guide gun in 45-70.

Dream on..



Quote
You are wrong....again.



Again what you or I or a Sniper may or may not choose is not the question here, now is it?

The 7.62X51 NATO round is our standard military Sniper round, would it be as good chambered and issued in an NEI Handi Rifle?

Last edited by jwp475; 03/15/10.


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Hmmm.

So I guess you could jump in a Stock car and turn a 195 mph lap at Atlanta Motor speedway just like Dale Earnhardt Jr.????

I'd pay to see that. grin

Skill level... it's about taking something to the edge of what it can do.

It's not common place my friend.

So please list all the 400 yd plus kills you know of with a 45-70 marlin (besides the target shooter you mentioned already) and don't say "the Oldtimers" as they had very few other choices.

I'm waiting...

JM

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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
Hmmm.

So I guess you could jump in a Stock car and turn a 195 mph lap at Atlanta Motor speedway just like Dale Earnhardt Jr.????

I'd pay to see that. grin

Skill level... it's about taking something to the edge of what it can do.

It's not common place my friend.

So please list all the 400 yd plus kills you know of with a 45-70 marlin (besides the target shooter you mentioned already) and don't say "the Oldtimers" as they had very few other choices.

I'm waiting...

JM



Yes skill level is important, but no amount of skill level will get a car to 195 MPH that is not capable of 195MPH is the point

Common place and capability are not one and the same, now is it?


The amount of choices of the old timers and the choice of todays shooters have nothing to do with wheter are not a caliber that is not commonl;y chosen is capable or not, now does it?

Last edited by jwp475; 03/15/10.


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You answer makes no sense, now does it?

1. You are saying that the 45-70 in a Marlin Guide gun is a good LR rifle/caliber set up.

2. You are completely comfortable with the average hunter taking shots at game at 400+ yds with this gun and caliber.

Wow, is all I can say.

I'm still waiting on the list of game taken with this combo at long range......Answer the question.


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Many - MANY years ago I spent an entire summer casting 500 grain bullets and reloading and shooting an old .45-70 trapdoor Springfield that a friend didn't have much use for. Seems that it bit him as hard on the back end as it did the single doe he killed.

I shot that rifle across a lake in southern New Jersey (Yes - there WAS a time when one could shoot just for the pure fun of it in New Jersey.)that we had actually measured and marked off in 50 yard increments becausae this was also where we hunted the geese and ducks that slid up and down the Atlantic flyway. At the end of the summer I was out of lead and had learned a LOT about long range shooting, range estimation, and bullet drop.

More thhn anything else I learned that the point at which the bullet enters the critter, and what it hits as it courses deep into the interior of the beast, will decide how effective a cartridge is or can be.

I now own only two rifles chambered for this wonderful old cartridge,a Ruger #3 and a custom Siamese Mauser. The Mauser has killed two Cape buffalo with a single round per animal. I was close (70 yards) and both broke the spine. Love those rifles and never learned as much from another rifle as I did from that ancient Trap door.

Like ALL CARTRIDGES, you can learn a bunch of stuff from the .45-70 - so go enjoy it and don't worry who tells you what. Put a 500 grain cast bullet or a 350 grain soft where it belongs and you will, as our ancestors did - make meat.


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I have never stated any particular rifle, since that is another subject in and of itself

I have never stated wheter I am or am not comfortable with what some one eles does or does not do




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If you have a hankering to buy a .45/70 by all means buy one. I bought one to use during MS's primitive weapons season and I love mine. Mine is an H&R single shot and its more accurate than I thought a flat nosed bullet style would be. I've killed a pile of deer with mine and it drops a deer pretty quick leaving a nice sized hole on both sides. The only down side is the range limitations but I can live with that.

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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
You answer makes no sense, now does it?

1. You are saying that the 45-70 in a Marlin Guide gun is a good LR rifle/caliber set up.

2. You are completely comfortable with the average hunter taking shots at game at 400+ yds with this gun and caliber.

Wow, is all I can say.

I'm still waiting on the list of game taken with this combo at long range......Answer the question.

JM
The question has been asked and answered and you refused the answer



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