Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Help: how to bleach a stained stock

Recent purchase of tomato stake for renovation. Forarm badly stained, not oil. Tried heat. Tried acetone. Sanded heavily, then lightly with improvement, but still darker than buttstock which I've lightly sanded, acetoned, then will treat with boiled linseed in mulitple light coats with light sanding. How can I lighten the forstock? I seem to remember a post last fall on refinishing wood, but can't find it. If it won't lighten, I guess I can use the tea trick on the buttstock to darken it to match. ?ideas. John

Go to a marine store or look in Wooden Boat magazine. There are several two part wood bleaches that will bring back almost anything. Years ago I was restoring a Gar Wood boat that had been covered...except the transom. The mahogany was BLACK as coal.
After two treatments it came back to light yellow which was then stained to restore the proper color.

This is from a reputable maker:

http://woodworker.com/wood-bleach-gallon-kit-mssu-155-126.asp?search=wood%20bleach&searchmode=2

Check out http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm . I've used chlorine bleach and oxalic acid (separately) both with good results. A lot of people don't go the whole way, forgetting to neutralize whatever bleach they used. The referenced article has tips for this. He didn't mention a neutralizer for chlorine bleach; I use grocery store grade hydrogen peroxide.

Thank you both. I'll give the Oxalic acid a try, then the chlorine to start. John

Yup, go to a marine store like West Marine or Boat US and get some "teak cleaner"--the strongest stuff already has oxalic acid in it. They also have "teak brighteners" as a final treatment.
Then you can always finish off with real household bleach and a final steel wooling with plain old alcohol--it dries really fast and pulls out all the last of the other cleaner residues

I've done 3 stocks so far and had two gunshops say they wish I'd teach some of their other customers how to do a stock--not that I'm great--just patient and have done a lot of woodwork on antiques and my boat over the years (you can read OLD in to that if you want to!)
One was a Stevens Favorite from 1899, one a Savage 99 from 1953 and one a Stevens from 1932. I can post pics of the completed stocks if you'd like to see them
The Favorite I did last month and was really grundgy after 110 years!

Bleaching is all well and good, but be careful of too much of a good thing. It will compromise the integrity of the wood cellulose if used too aggressively. Replacing improperly bleached teak and mahogany on old boats helped keep the wolf from my door several times during the last 20 or so years in the marine business.

Gnoahh
I agree--I should have qualified that with all of the cleaners I recommended including bleach, I don't let it sit more than 5 to 10 min., 15 tops and second and third trys if needed are even less time

Plus boats usually get treated a few times a year for year after year and hopefully (depending on how much already done) that wont be happening to Johnsavage and this gun again.

I would be curious as to what kind of stain was put on it or even if it is a stain..No stain should go that deep. A stain is almost a surface stain, even the water type stains, and any stain can be easily sanded off, so...?????????

If it is oil soaked then Brownells makes a oil remover powder that works pretty well... If your careful you can heat the wood with a flame and wipe it as the oil heats and boils to the surface of the wood, but be very carefull not to singe the wood or burn it, and this process is slow and tedious but effective..I have used in on double rifle restorations and on some old Mausers and Winchesters..

The surface stain on the left of the forearm was deep but did not bleed oil with heat nor did it clean up with acetone and furniture stripper. I sanded the whole piece which lightened it up some, but not enough to match the buttstock, which I'm also refinishing due to someone putting a varnish finish on it. I've tried concentrated chlorine solution with no result, so have started oxalic acid washes today with some early result. When it looks right to start, I'll use boiled linseed oil in multiple coats with light sanding in between, and finish with Snake Oil or Tung oil. Then have to block sand the left side of the receiver and reblue. It won't be great, but will sell or hunt depending. I've not yet completely disassembled a 99 but will do so with this one as a learning experience (except the rotor). With luck it will be a nice rifle. Bore looks great and it should be a shooter. Thanks all for the advice. Johh

Don't go too far with the oxalic acid - the wood will look darker when you have the liquid on it, then lighten considerably when dry. Finishing the stock will take it back to about 2/3 to 3/4 the darkness of what it looks like when wet with oxalic acid solution. Also, if you don't get it fully neutralized with baking soda/water solution it will continue to lighten a little with time.

I've been using a stock finish suggested to me by Sitka deer that you might want to try; I guarantee you'll like it better than BLO or tung oil. Mix equal parts of Watco Danish Oil finish, glossy polyurethane spar varnish, and mineral spirits. Don't be tempted to use semigloss or matte spar varnish; I did against Sitka deer's advice and it didn't work out well... You might be able to reduce or eliminate the mineral spirits if the spar varnish is thin. This replicates some of the commercial oil finishes, but seems a lot easier to use. I usually lightly sand to 400 grit using small wood blocks and big pink pencil erasers. De-whisker with a propane torch with a fan tip just before putting finish on.

I used to do the wet sand thing to fill the pores, but was convinced otherwise also by Sitka deer. Pore filling that way makes the finish muddy. Just put the above finish on this way:

0) Mask off the checkering, you don't want it filled with the finish.

1) Put on as many coats as it will take in a day; wait about 30 minutes between coats. The wood will soak up a lot to start with.

2) Put on a couple coats a day for 3 to 5 days with a couple hours between coats. If you're getting runs you're putting too much finish on.

3) Let dry fully in a warm place for a week, then sand back to the wood, or to where you can't see the pores. If you are sanding and the sandpaper is gumming up the finish hasn't had enough dry time. This is also why you don't want runs, they just kind of roll off with sanding and take the finish underneath with it... As you start sanding the sanded areas will appear matte and pores will look glossy; you want the whole thing to look matte. If you're to the wood and still have glossy pores repeat 2 and 3. Make sure to back your sandpaper with blocks - wood or eraser otherwise you'll get an uneven surface.

4) Now the pores are filled. If you don't want filled pores just skip 2 and 3. Take a look at a 99 with factory finish; you can see the pores, unless it's a brush gun with the heavy glossy finish, or a high grade gun.

5) Put a couple drops of the finish on your finger tips or palm (figure out what works best for you) and apply to the stock in long strokes. I really mean just a couple of drops - when you do this right it's barely going to look wet. Wait a couple hours to a day between coats; you don't want to put another coat on while the previous one is tacky.

6) Repeat 5 until you're satisfied, remove the masking tape from the checkering, and take some of the finish and cut it in half with mineral spirits. Use a drop on a toothbrush and rub it into the checkering. If you get the checkering too wet rub the toothbrush on a rag until dry, then use the dry toothbrush to get the excess finish out of the checkering. I put about 3 coats like this on the checkering. Let the finish fully cure which can take a week to a month depending on temperature. If you want it to cure faster you can add Japan Drier (art supply store; used with oil paints). If you're going for the matte look you might notice the checkering is shinier than the rest of the stock. Use a little rottenstone in mineral or olive oil on a toothbrush to dull the finish of the checkering to match the rest of the stock. No rottenstone? Use a little toothpaste...

7) Depending on number of coats you'll get anything from a slight semigloss finish (few number of coats = in the wood) to very glossy finish (high number of coats = on the wood).

I have heard that old butt pads make good sanding blocks.

That's pretty good advise, but I do it a bit differently. I fill the pores by applying straight spar varnish, sanding between coats until smooth with no pores showing, then sand right down to, but not into, the bare wood. Proceed with the oil finish, or continue with a few coats of spar varnish for a much better moisture barrier. It is fairly labor intensive but the pores will stay filled, period. The same (or better) results can be had with epoxy, but that's even more labor intensive. Nothing beats watching the oil finish-filled pores wash open if you get caught out in a driving rain. That happened to me twice over the years, once with straight linseed oil and again with Tru-Oil

Everyone has a favorite formula for an oil finish. Mine is pure tung oil (not tung oil finish), mixed with equal parts spar varnish and mineral spirits. Adjust the amount of mineral spirits to achieve a viscosity about like power steering fluid. I do like an oil finish, but I only use it on guns that were finished with oil originally, or guns that'll pretty much only see range time and not hunted much.

Yep on straight spar varnish; I've done that too. I also did Sitka deer's epoxy method, but he says only to do it on new wood. I found it even easier than spar varnish, as it cures quicker and harder so it sands very easily.

Thank you all. Great advice from people with personal knowledge of the subject seems always available here. I now have a shelf full of chemicals to play with! John

good info saved thanks

any ideas on stocks with cracks that have been filled or just glued but you can see the crack line??????????????????

It's difficult to do and depends on the original finish. If you've done oil or watercolor paintings you can probably do this, if you haven't you might not be happy with the results... I mostly work with oil type finishes; this is how I do it. First you have to get the crack filled flush with the surface. Depending on size of crack you can use superglue or epoxy to fill it. After it's set up you sand it flush and feather sand either side until the sanded area is about an inch wide. Then get some artist's oil paints in brown, burnt umber, and black. Mix to get the right colors. I usually will mix a couple different shades because wood isn't all one color. As oil paint dries it slightly darkens, so account for this when mixing colors. Apply a couple diffent shades to a small area of the crack with a small paintbrush and feather with a paintbrush and/or finger. You want it thick enough to hide the crack, but thin enough to feather out and blend with the wood underneath on either side of the crack. Do the whole crack this way. I let the oil paint dry, then go back with a superfine permanent black marker and add pores and grain features. Put a single drop of oil finish on your fingertip and rub on and feather into the existing finish, repeat until satisfied. If you're using a finish with solvent in it you have to use a superfine paintbrush and black oil paint for pores and grain; solvent will take off the permanent marker.

More good advice. Any chance that the pertinant parts of this thread could be put on a "good info" sticky?

Mind you, I'm not recommending this to anybody, I have doctored up cracks in wood (gunstocks and other things) by carefully cutting out an irregularly shaped patch of wood encompassing the pre-filled crack and fitting a matching piece of wood into it, sanding, and then using kc's method of faux-graining it. I used tiny dry fly hackle feathers (you fellow fly tiers know what I'm talking about) as brushes to draw grain lines across the wood joint. An irregular wood patch vs. a square or round patch goes a long way in camouflaging the repair, but admittedly is a real PITD.

I picked up a real nice 99EG in 250-3000 that had a stained stock. Bluing was real nice, decent case colours, just a stain in the stock by the butt plate. Only savage I have ever owned that I sold for less than I paid for it! Everything else has gone out the door for cost or a modest profit. So my recommendations for stained stocks is "run" don't waste your time. If it is shooter that you want and it is really, really cheap than maybe.

Blair

I fix cracks from the inside when possible. Drill a small hole, about 3/32 or so into the crack from the inside, then drill the entrance out just big enough and deep to accept the snozzle of a hypo syringe then inject accra-glass stock epoxy. You might need to wedge the crack open a little. When the crack is full wipe off the excess and wind surgical tubing or a bungee cord around it till the epoxy sets.
Nothing removes oil from stock wood like plain old dish detergent.
Rust stains can be removed with fence bleach which is oxalic acid, or just plain old laundry bleach, Just put it on where needed with an artists brush. When your satisfied, paint on a little vinegar to neutralize